Resolved Can anyone explain these bizarre stats?

[KasinoKing]

I won't name the casino for now, but I have been working with them since 2017 and never seen anything like this before

Everything seemed normal up until May this year, but from June the stats do not make any sense to me.
These are the summaries of the stats before and after June:


So since June there was a total of nearly $10.000 deposited, absolutely ZERO cash-outs, but the casino apparently lost over $8,000...

Can anyone think of any explanation for this?

I have asked them of course, but got no meaningful response so far.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[nisosbar]

Comps?

Where did you get these numbers? I mean, obviously you didn't hack into the casino side of your account, but how did you get the "Net Revenue" number...?

 

[KasinoKing]

Comps?

Where did you get these numbers? I mean, obviously you didn't hack into the casino side of your account, but how did you get the "Net Revenue" number...?

I am a casino affiliate - advertiser if you like. Same as Casinomeister himself - but on a MUCH smaller scale!
Those are the figures for the players that I have referred to the casino.
All casinos supply this sort of information (in one form or another) to their affiliates.

 

[neilw]

Have they even shown withdrawals?

 

[ultra100]

View attachment 190520

Those are the only numbers you can see when you log-in into affiliate CMS, right? I mean, 4 columns, (period/deps/withdrawals/net)?

 

[KasinoKing]

Have they even shown withdrawals?

Yes - there haven't been ANY withdrawals since February.

M

 

[dunover]

August/Oct 2023 is interesting - the net revenue was actually LESS than the combined deposits those months which is completely impossible unless bonuses were somehow being factored in wrongly, regardless of zero withdrawals. I think it's simple but the w/d info is missing somehow as it would be nigh on unheard of to have NO w/ds in 6 months.

This reminds me of my Superfly account where I routinely have multi-thousands ukp in deposits and I have the spawniest players on the planet who somehow win every month leaving me hundreds in negative bar the odd month where I end up with 90 quid or something.

I'm guessing the w/d figures are missing and are being manually ahem! attended to.

Those stats and accounts are dodgier than the SNP's.

 

[KasinoKing]

Those are the only numbers you can see when you log-in into affiliate CMS, right? I mean, 4 columns, (period/deps/withdrawals/net)?

No - that's just my summary.

There are lots of columns of info - it's on the "My Affiliates" system - which I expect you are very familiar with

e.g. this is the full picture for August:


Now the figures above (and for every month since June) are very confusing.
This shows player win - player bets = players lost $1,150
And deposits + bonuses = $7,550
So players should have $6,400 in their accounts (assuming bonuses were converted and not forfeited)
And yet, for 5 months straight there have been at least 10 deposits spread across each month and absolutely ZERO withdrawals.
Why would they keep depositing if they are winning and have money in their accounts?
So either my players are saving up over $18,000 in their accounts for a rainy day... or there is something very dodgy going on with this operator.

FYI this month is currently showing a +ve NGR... but I would bet that it miraculously turns into a big -ve at the end of the month...

M

 

[ultra100]

No - that's just my summary.

There are lots of columns of info - it's on the "My Affiliates" system - which I expect you are very familiar with

e.g. this is the full picture for August:
View attachment 190521

Indeed, I am very familiar with it

That being said, I am not 100% into aff, gaming marketing niche I was before. But, nevertheless, I asked, just to confirm there were no chargebacks or similar columns taking into accounting stuff. As I didn't know which one of the aff. partners you were posting about.

But, I can agree, there is absolutely no sense in those stats - Why would players keep depositing, if they have $$$ in casino account? ........This reminds me on the situation I have had with one of the aff. programs.

But, it's a probably a whole new topic to start on CM, or not?!

 

[ultra100]

Btw @KasinoKing , is NGR still positive this month? Maybe, it will level up for past months or so....

 

[KasinoKing]

Btw @KasinoKing , is NGR still positive this month? Maybe, it will level up for past months or so....

It was at nearly +$1,000 on November 25, after being in the black all month...
But surprise, surprise, it magically dropped to -$38 on the 28th...

KK

 

[ultra100]

It was at nearly +$1,000 on November 25, after being in the black all month...
But surprise, surprise, it magically dropped to -$38 on the 28th...

KK

Yeah, it doesn't look good in the terms of numbers/stats & aff.program overall.

Had similar situation long years ago with one of the aff.programs. At the end of the every month, "magically" there were numerous chargeback(s) (or similar negative columns), leaving every month in negative.

After a long conversation with them, stats were back to normal in the months ahead. I would suggest to have a call session with them, as those numbers beyond a doubt, doesn't add up!

 

[L&L-Jan]

No - that's just my summary.

There are lots of columns of info - it's on the "My Affiliates" system - which I expect you are very familiar with

e.g. this is the full picture for August:
View attachment 190521

Now the figures above (and for every month since June) are very confusing.
This shows player win - player bets = players lost $1,150
And deposits + bonuses = $7,550
So players should have $6,400 in their accounts (assuming bonuses were converted and not forfeited)
And yet, for 5 months straight there have been at least 10 deposits spread across each month and absolutely ZERO withdrawals.
Why would they keep depositing if they are winning and have money in their accounts?
So either my players are saving up over $18,000 in their accounts for a rainy day... or there is something very dodgy going on with this operator.

FYI this month is currently showing a +ve NGR... but I would bet that it miraculously turns into a big -ve at the end of the month...

M

Mate, how can they give $4785 in bonuses over $2765 in deposits, obviously you go negative if the sum is: bets - wins - bonus - jackpot contributions = revenue.

Looks dodgy if you ask me

 

[KasinoKing]

Mate, how can they give $4785 in bonuses over $2765 in deposits, obviously you go negative if the sum is: bets - wins - bonus - jackpot contributions = revenue.

Looks dodgy if you ask me

This casino is VERY generous with bonuses (100% to 400% on every deposit) - but that shouldn't affect the final NGR.

Let's say a player deposits $100 and gets a 200% bonus - but loses it all.
He starts with $100 + $200 bonus = $300.
He loses it all, so the Gross Gaming Revenue is $300.
Take off the $200 bonus - and you are still left with the casino making $100 = the deposited amount.

From that, you take off the 15% admin fee = $85 NGR

Their actual calculation is: Net Revenue = Wagers - Winnings - Bonuses - 15% Admin - Fraud & C/B costs.
So there are no separate jackpot contributions, provider fees or bank fees - they are all covered by Admin.
(There have been no fraud or C/B fees this year - so that doesn't come into it either).


BUT... the stats consistently show the GGR being a LOT less than the sum of Deposits+Bonuses - which would indicate that the players are winning.
However, they are clearly NOT winning as there are no cash-outs and there are repeat deposits 10-15 times per month, every month.
Unless they are using the casino as a savings bank!

There is something off somewhere, but I just can't pin-point it. I have spent hours & hours going through all the stats - and I'm still confused.

BTW, only have 2 active players there at the moment - so it's not "getting lost in the numbers".
BTW2: This strangeness only started around April this year - before that everything was OK-ish.

Cheers

 

[KasinoKing]

Have they even shown withdrawals?

Well done Neil - you win the Prize for being closest to the answer!

The mystery of the "off stats" has finally been solved - but only when MaxD from Casinomeister contacted them on my behalf and someone at the casino finally had a proper look, a full month after I reported the issue

They had changed something in their back end in March, and for some unexplained reason, player withdrawals were not shown on my reports. And they were very considerable.
At first I thought this was a bit "dodgy", but looking right back to the beginning of 2021, there were large withdrawals just about every month up to March 2023.
So it does make sense and does explain all the discrepancies I uncovered.
So another CHEERS to Max as well!

KK

 

[maxd]

Thank you KK, glad that we were able to move things along.

- Max