Software Complaint Casino software issue at Maxino.com

Need Approval From OP

Hi,

If it is OK, I would like to post the initial chat transcripts from Timoboy to support, and if anyone wants to see them the transaction history from MG showing all the game rounds from MegaDeth.

Also, it is actually possible to launch a QF game in Demo mode and have it launch into a bonus round. This has happened to me on more than one occasion when testing new games.

If Timobiy gives me the go ahead to post the chats and transactions I will take care of this tomorrow as all of this information is on my computer at work.

Thanks,

Ben
 
Even so thats my case is closed on MG, theres a still few issues what cant be explained.

I was very focused with a new game and I didnt use autoplay. I had low credits left and I check my gredits often, cause with that bet, Ive got maybe 10-20 spinns left.

Sounds like a minor issue, but like I have told: If iwas in funny mode, why my credits were that 5134€ after I won? Bonusrounds totally wons were about 5100€. In funnymode, those credits should been at least 7k.

At after quite yelling and cheering, I decited to withdraw 5 or 5,1K and play a few spinns at Thunderstruck II.
I choiced my own bank, add credits to withdraw, doublecheck my bank account number and withdraw.., failure shows. my cred's were about 11-30€.

That Megadeth-game was brand new in Maxino and it logged me out several times, when I smoke that cancer stick, went to wc or made some coffee. That was happened to often in other games.

If Ben is willing, he can put this case for easy readid with all infos, what I have send to him via PM and what I have tell here, so its then easier to get pieces together.
Then he can tell what he had from MG, somekind of summa summarum of this.

I know that I have lost that big win of my anyway. I blame MG's software here without any evidence, just my own word. This is not about money anymore, its matter of principals and software's working with no possibility to fail.
 
Hi,

If it is OK, I would like to post the initial chat transcripts from Timoboy to support, and if anyone wants to see them the transaction history from MG showing all the game rounds from MegaDeth.

Also, it is actually possible to launch a QF game in Demo mode and have it launch into a bonus round. This has happened to me on more than one occasion when testing new games.

If Timobiy gives me the go ahead to post the chats and transactions I will take care of this tomorrow as all of this information is on my computer at work.

Thanks,

Ben

From where does it fetch this game state. With no record of past events, a fresh demo mode should not launch straight into an incomplete wager. If so, this is another bug in the system. Can it launch straight into a bonus round in real money mode on a brand new real money account?
 
Quote Originally Posted by NordicBet View Post
Hi,

If it is OK, I would like to post the initial chat transcripts from Timoboy to support, and if anyone wants to see them the transaction history from MG showing all the game rounds from MegaDeth.

Also, it is actually possible to launch a QF game in Demo mode and have it launch into a bonus round. This has happened to me on more than one occasion when testing new games.

If Timobiy gives me the go ahead to post the chats and transactions I will take care of this tomorrow as all of this information is on my computer at work.

Thanks,

Ben

And of any case, ME vs Maxino's chat is private.
I was out of line at some points (shoot me for that) but that publishing our chat is irrelevant.

And now, when this came up barking via PM.., well...
 
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Quote Originally Posted by NordicBet View Post
Hi,

If it is OK, I would like to post the initial chat transcripts from Timoboy to support, and if anyone wants to see them the transaction history from MG showing all the game rounds from MegaDeth.

Also, it is actually possible to launch a QF game in Demo mode and have it launch into a bonus round. This has happened to me on more than one occasion when testing new games.

If Timobiy gives me the go ahead to post the chats and transactions I will take care of this tomorrow as all of this information is on my computer at work.

Thanks,

Ben

And of any case, ME vs Maxino's chat is private.
I was out of line at some points (shoot me for that) but that publishing our chat is irrelevant.

And now, when this came up barking via PM.., well...

Like I said, you are allowed to publish all private messages from me to you, Ben. Not with me vs Max.
 
Quote Originally Posted by NordicBet View Post
Hi,

If it is OK, I would like to post the initial chat transcripts from Timoboy to support, and if anyone wants to see them the transaction history from MG showing all the game rounds from MegaDeth.

Also, it is actually possible to launch a QF game in Demo mode and have it launch into a bonus round. This has happened to me on more than one occasion when testing new games.

If Timobiy gives me the go ahead to post the chats and transactions I will take care of this tomorrow as all of this information is on my computer at work.

Thanks,

Ben

And of any case, ME vs Maxino's chat is private.
I was out of line at some points (shoot me for that) but that publishing our chat is irrelevant.

And now, when this came up barking via PM.., well...

Considering your whole complaint is based wholly on your word, I find it odd that you will only approve selected communications for release.

Insisting that stuff between you and the casino, which is obviously relevant, remain secret calls your integrity and honesty into question IMO.

Have you submitted a PAB yet?
 
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Insisting that stuff between you and the casino, which is obviously relevant, remain secret calls your integrity and honesty into question IMO.

I agree.

The OP is basing his whole complaints on a few words, but will still not allow Ben to actually publish the communication between this player and Maxino's CS.

The reason is most likely (as always on this forum) that there is information in this transcript that will affect his case negatively.

Two very reputable companies in this industry, Maxino and Microgaming have independently been investigating this case for more than a week.

They have found absolutely no trace of the transaction the OP is referring to.

VWM:

I certainly cannot believe how speculative you are in this thread. It is a shame to see how you are trying your very best to mislead members by posting incorrect and false information backed up by...well nothing (again).

And to trust that everything posted from a brand new member is accurate , that also started this thread by writing fu** Maxino and fu** Microgaming, is not very impressive.

It is like you do not even read what other people are writing. And to even indicate that advantage players are already trying to exploit this «error» based on a few words from a newbie with no evidence is just weird.

If the OP did win this money, then everything in this thread indicates that he won it when playing in fun mode.
 
I agree.

The OP is basing his whole complaints on a few words, but will still not allow Ben to actually publish the communication between this player and Maxino's CS.

The reason is most likely (as always on this forum) that there is information in this transcript that will affect his case negatively.

Two very reputable companies in this industry, Maxino and Microgaming have independently been investigating this case for more than a week.

They have found absolutely no evidence that the transaction the OP is referring to actually took place.

VWM:

I certainly cannot believe how speculative you are in this thread. It is a shame to see how you are trying your very best to mislead members by posting incorrect and false information backed up by...well nothing (again).

And to trust that everything posted from a brand new member, that also started this thread by writing fu** Maxino and fu** Microgaming, is not very impressive.

It is like you do not even read what other people are writing. And to even indicate that advantage players are already trying to exploit this «error» based on a few words from a newbie with no evidence is just weird.

If the OP did win this money, then everything in this thread indicates that he won it when playing in fun mode.


His original rant had been removed and replaced with something civil. I never saw the level of this rant, just that he considered he had gone too far in the heat of the moment, something that many people do.

I have insight as to the kinds of things advantage players look into being an "old school" UK fruit machine player. Some of the manipulators and emptiers were so convoluted that you had to think outside the box, even the room, to even consider trying the methods to see if they might work.

Online casino software is not free of such methods either. Some last quite a while before the operators catch on and put a stop to them. Clues to what these methods often appear in the terms and conditions. There is a glaring example of such a clue in the terms at Club World, added after the cottoned on to such a method that had been used for YEARS, long before I heard about it.

There was New Orleans, who pissed off advantage players no end by revealing a blow by blow account of the RTG "Frozen Assets" method. RTG yanked half a dozen slot games, including "Frozen Assets", as a result. Advantage players thought this through, but many RTG operators were completely in the dark.

Most investigations into a method do not bear fruit, but occasionally a real gem is discovered, and provided it is kept quiet, it can last for ages.

I am ALREADY looking into the above story, not just to figure out how the OP thought he won but didn't, but whether his odd experience relates to a software bug that might open the door to an exploit. As an operator, NordicBet should keep a close watch on these games. If the game can spontaneously initialise into a bonus round in demo mode, it should be checked whether it can also do this in real money mode. Like Chief's Fortune, it would be down to a failure to properly initialise some game variables. A bonus round is the result of a previous bet, therefore without there being any stored records of previous bets, it should be impossible for demo mode to initialise straight into a bonus round, yet Ben has seen this happen himself when trying out demo mode.

If it turns out to be possible to get the game to initialise straight into a bonus round in real money play, then it creates a manipulator where players deposit the minimum, collect the bonus round, and withdraw the proceeds. The MINIMUM RTP for this is 100% from a bonus round that pays nothing. The test would be to create a real account, and repeatedly launch Quickfire games without playing them, and checking closely whether they initialise to the same state every time, which they should. It may take hundereds of launches to find the game initialises to a bonus round, but if it happens, it is going to be worth it for Advantage players, and would be an embarrassment for MGS.

It would also be near impossible for operators to justify voiding these wins now that in this case such a situation has been declared "impossible" after 2 weeks of investigation.

I may well be pissing off advantage players by letting the operators see this train of thought.
 
I agree.

The OP is basing his whole complaints on a few words, but will still not allow Ben to actually publish the communication between this player and Maxino's CS.

The reason is most likely (as always on this forum) that there is information in this transcript that will affect his case negatively.

Two very reputable companies in this industry, Maxino and Microgaming have independently been investigating this case for more than a week.

They have found absolutely no trace of the transaction the OP is referring to.

VWM:

I certainly cannot believe how speculative you are in this thread. It is a shame to see how you are trying your very best to mislead members by posting incorrect and false information backed up by...well nothing (again).

And to trust that everything posted from a brand new member is accurate , that also started this thread by writing fu** Maxino and fu** Microgaming, is not very impressive.

It is like you do not even read what other people are writing. And to even indicate that advantage players are already trying to exploit this «error» based on a few words from a newbie with no evidence is just weird.

If the OP did win this money, then everything in this thread indicates that he won it when playing in fun mode.

Its getting sound that beat the beated, for my. What Ben wants to proof chats between me and Maxino? Yes, I once had a warning for bad language. I am temperamented kind of person and and this was throwed me to use non-pro with my allready bad english.

You want now show me as a bad person? Is that relevant with this case? I dont understand the point of this.

This is what I copy+paste via Maxinos mail and cause they have rights, wheres mine?
The message was the information is intended only for the recipient e-mail that has been sent in the strictest confidence. The message may contain confidential and / or proprietary information. If you have received this message due to an error, you will need to protect the confidentiality of the message. You also will not in this case, can not copy, transmit, or print the contents of the message. You will need to notify the sender of the error that occurred and destroy / delete the message.
 
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If Maxino gives you a go ahead and youre motives is pure and just not want to make me look bad and if this is somekind of solve for this case, so go ahead.
Yes, at then, I thred to take this to lawyer. I dont, I made a report to police. They called me after few days and sayed that value of loss is not enough (MALTA vs Finland)

but now you have my permission to goes public with mine and maxinos private discussion.
Still, I dont understand how this is related.

And I really read all posting in here and do my very best to understand all words, some with google translation.

Timo
 
Update

Hi Everyone,

I just want to make a few things clear. I asked Timoboy (the OP) permission to post his initial complaints to support as those complaints had the relevent information to what the OP said happened although the information varied a little with the first complaints. It was never my intention to discredit the OP, and any information that was not relevant I would have removed.

I have spent most of todays going through the maxino BO logs, and compared those to the logs that MG sent me, the Playcheck and and historic log in and log off logs from IT. I cannot find any transaction 4 hours either side of when the OP stated the winnings were not credited, all transactions from MG match what we have. I am certian that this transaction never took place in real money, as it would mean that our data warehouse and MG's data warehouse both failed at the same time.

I have had IT check the logs to see if there were any connections logs at this time as did MG and there were not. I also had Netent check to see if there were any disruptions on the 3rd of December and they reported nothing.

With regards to the play money and storing data the Quickfire rep sent me an email today where he stated:

"Unfortunately we do not track/monitor demo play as we use a system which recycles accounts meaning gameplay is just picked up from where another player left the game."

This may be the right way, or the wrong way to do it, I guess that will spark another discussion but it shows that you can come in the middle of a bonus round (which I stated had happend to me) and that the logs are not kept for play money play, whether you are logged into the casino or not (I had him verify this too).

I do wish this would have turned out differently, I don't like players having ill feelings towards casinos that I run but there is no way I can credit any funds.

Of course timoboy you are welcome to PAB and I will 100% help Max investigate this issue and give him access to all the information that I have but for now and from NGG's stand point this is closed.

Kind regards,

Ben
 
So it was just that game logged me out and I wasnt play 100% focused, so I had to on demo mode somehow, when I though that I won.
Everything not match with this to me and my testings with that same game fun and real money money mode, but I have just a broken laptop. I agree all what Ben has explain to me, no bugs found.
Thanks for Ben's help with investigations and this was actually players fault.

Merry cristmass to all of you and I apologize.

Best wishes;
Ex player
 
So it was just that game logged me out and I wasnt play 100% focused, so I had to on demo mode somehow, when I though that I won.
Everything not match with this to me and my testings with that same game fun and real money money mode, but I have just a broken laptop. I agree all what Ben has explain to me, no bugs found.
Thanks for Ben's help with investigations and this was actually players fault.

Merry cristmass to all of you and I apologize.

Best wishes;
Ex player

Sarcasm isn't going to help you.

You reported it to police? It's ridiculous.

You accidentally logged in to FUN mode. YOUR fault. Pay more attention next time.

In reality, you are ZERO out of pocket.

PAB, or get over it.

I've tried to be polite, but you've continually inferred that the casino ripped you off despite much evidence to the contrary.

As for the advantage player exploit? *sigh* There is NO exploit! Netent states they recycle accounts in FUN play ONLY. It has nothing to do with REAL play. Remember....the player was NOT paid.
 
Sarcasm isn't going to help you.

You reported it to police? It's ridiculous.

You accidentally logged in to FUN mode. YOUR fault. Pay more attention next time.

In reality, you are ZERO out of pocket.

PAB, or get over it.

I've tried to be polite, but you've continually inferred that the casino ripped you off despite much evidence to the contrary.

As for the advantage player exploit? *sigh* There is NO exploit! Netent states they recycle accounts in FUN play ONLY. It has nothing to do with REAL play. Remember....the player was NOT paid.

What is your point? No sarcasm used. You can call me zero if it makes you feel better person. Fine by me.
That seems to be only fault, because software is now investigated by Ben.
 
You accidentally logged in to FUN mode. YOUR fault. Pay more attention next time.

This is what I suspected too, but it's telling that Maxino's fun mode starts at 2000 credits, and the OP says his bonus round won 5100 credits - so surely, as he says, his balance would read 7100 credits? He states it read 51xx, with the xx being the amount he had left before going for his cigarette. This is the confusing bit for me.
 
This is what I suspected too, but it's telling that Maxino's fun mode starts at 2000 credits, and the OP says his bonus round won 5100 credits - so surely, as he says, his balance would read 7100 credits? He states it read 51xx, with the xx being the amount he had left before going for his cigarette. This is the confusing bit for me.

That xx is cause I dont remember exatly, it could have been 11€-40€

my english-skills are limited, sorry. But I believe that Ben had worked his ass off to solve this and I had accepted that explaining that I was playing in fun mode by accidently. That fun mode cred's is weird, cause my totally won from bonus round was over 5k, but whatever happened, Im over it.
 
That xx is cause I dont remember exatly, it could have been 11€-40€

my english-skills are limited, sorry. But I believe that Ben had worked his ass off to solve this and I had accepted that explaining that I was playing in fun mode by accidently. That fun mode cred's is weird, cause my totally won from bonus round was over 5k, but whatever happened, Im over it.

Just launched megadeth's and for ten minutes without actions, Im still logged in. at morning 3.12 i cant even smoke that gig and continued game without logged out for for "youre passivity etc". thats way i assume that there was some errors with brand new game.

But this is taking nowhere, so, as I told, I am over it.
btw, after 17min without action, I get message that I had to logged back in and I press "ok", I allready logged in. I choose same game, and I am in real money-mode.
When this matter happened of me wining about this, that game mode was allways at funny mode after that I need logged back in.

Something is not right but like i told, I wont bother anyone with this again. Shitloaded allready.

And that notice:you have logged out for your passivity... is now changed to timeline session.
 
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Hi Everyone,

I just want to make a few things clear. I asked Timoboy (the OP) permission to post his initial complaints to support as those complaints had the relevent information to what the OP said happened although the information varied a little with the first complaints. It was never my intention to discredit the OP, and any information that was not relevant I would have removed.

I have spent most of todays going through the maxino BO logs, and compared those to the logs that MG sent me, the Playcheck and and historic log in and log off logs from IT. I cannot find any transaction 4 hours either side of when the OP stated the winnings were not credited, all transactions from MG match what we have. I am certian that this transaction never took place in real money, as it would mean that our data warehouse and MG's data warehouse both failed at the same time.

I have had IT check the logs to see if there were any connections logs at this time as did MG and there were not. I also had Netent check to see if there were any disruptions on the 3rd of December and they reported nothing.

With regards to the play money and storing data the Quickfire rep sent me an email today where he stated:

"Unfortunately we do not track/monitor demo play as we use a system which recycles accounts meaning gameplay is just picked up from where another player left the game."

This may be the right way, or the wrong way to do it, I guess that will spark another discussion but it shows that you can come in the middle of a bonus round (which I stated had happend to me) and that the logs are not kept for play money play, whether you are logged into the casino or not (I had him verify this too).

I do wish this would have turned out differently, I don't like players having ill feelings towards casinos that I run but there is no way I can credit any funds.

Of course timoboy you are welcome to PAB and I will 100% help Max investigate this issue and give him access to all the information that I have but for now and from NGG's stand point this is closed.

Kind regards,

Ben

This is an odd way of going about things. Surely the SIMPLE option is to create a completely new session for every demo mode login, and ditch it at the end. Storing the position of a previous player and then giving this to some random new player is always going to look odd. In order to even do this, they MUST be keeping records of demo mode somewhere, else how can they give a new player the gamestate from where a previous player left off.

Not an exploit in this case, but the kind of coding that leaves the door open to exploits.

No-one, not even me, would have believed the Chief's Fortune fiasco before it actually happened. There was just no way it could happen, yet somehow it DID. How did a bonus round appear from nowhere on a freshly created account that opened the door to a guaranteed +EV exploit for EVERY new casino account created over a 3 month period. If it can happen once, it can happen again, and be just as unbelievable.

I am sure that at some point in the future, I will have my "I told you so" moment when MGS make their next mistake that favours players, along with the difficult decision of whether to pay players and fix things on the quiet, or fess up and use the "malfunction voids play" provisions.

If this is a problem with Quickfire, it will happen again to some other player, so the OP should keep their records just in case there is an opportunity to revisit this matter.
 
This is what I suspected too, but it's telling that Maxino's fun mode starts at 2000 credits, and the OP says his bonus round won 5100 credits - so surely, as he says, his balance would read 7100 credits? He states it read 51xx, with the xx being the amount he had left before going for his cigarette. This is the confusing bit for me.

Yes even if the 'fun Play' started with 2000 credits, I would assume the OP probably won about 3000 to take his balance up to 5000. The op stated on the first page that his credits were in the region of +-5100 when he tried to withdraw. I would assume that the hit could have been roughly +-3000 in fun play.

Its also possible to launch a game in Fun Mode whilst you are logged in. Any attempt to withdraw will obviously fail given that the play was never in real mode to begin with.

What I have also noted on the MGS side of Maxino is that after a while you are automatically logged out - This has happened to me mid session on Autoplay. The game then reboots to FUN mode. It may be a bit of a timeout issue but again it shows that even if the OP did not select Fun mode, it is totally plausible that the session timed out and rebooted in fun mode.

If anyone cares to check, this issue was brought up in the Maxino Baptism by fire thread.

Nate
 
Yes even if the 'fun Play' started with 2000 credits, I would assume the OP probably won about 3000 to take his balance up to 5000. The op stated on the first page that his credits were in the region of +-5100 when he tried to withdraw. I would assume that the hit could have been roughly +-3000 in fun play.

Its also possible to launch a game in Fun Mode whilst you are logged in. Any attempt to withdraw will obviously fail given that the play was never in real mode to begin with.

What I have also noted on the MGS side of Maxino is that after a while you are automatically logged out - This has happened to me mid session on Autoplay. The game then reboots to FUN mode. It may be a bit of a timeout issue but again it shows that even if the OP did not select Fun mode, it is totally plausible that the session timed out and rebooted in fun mode.

If anyone cares to check, this issue was brought up in the Maxino Baptism by fire thread.

Nate

This could be the bug. If the game does this all by itself, the player would not necessarily notice. It is also a bug that it considers autoplay to be "idle" in terms of the countdown for logging out an unused session. Along with the daft idea of fun mode booting to whatever some random player left behind earlier, we have the proverbial "accident waiting to happen", in this case a player who experienced the coming together of these factors in a manner that convinced him he had won 5K in real money mode, and the software then deleted all his money without leaving an audit trail. This means that there is no way for MGS to prove the win was not valid, only the assumption that since there was no record, it must have been fun mode.

Things are much clearer in the MGS download lobby. Even if an individual game disconnects, the lobby remains in the mode selected, and the game will reboot to that same mode. Fun mode also makes itself very clear by having an animated slider warning over the balance display that it is "fun mode" credits.

The fact that you can launch the withdrawal page directly from fun mode play in Quickfire further adds to the confusion, and is why the 5K credits would vanish in a single mouse click.
 
at 3rd, everytime when I got that message that Ive been logged out, it's always continue with funny mode automatically, so I had to change a game mode. I believe that I was noticed if I were playing with funny money.
Now, that game keeps me logged in about 17min and when I launch that again, Im allways in real money mode.
so there was issues with this Megadeth then and that log in and out is after that changed and it doesnt log you out in couple minutes and when you continue, you are in real money mode.

Its really is quite a different looks when you play in real or funny mode. I dont play autogame and I can still remember that big sign of totally won: over 5k
 
and because there were some issues in Maxino's Megadeth, why those havent been reported?
if that game were working 100% right, why those issues has now fixed? Why fix something witch is allready working right? and I ment those game modes and log outs...
 
A thing like this happened a friend of mine over at Betsafe. He played Immortal Romance and he kept getting "casino error 2", logged in again and continued playing, happened like 4 times, always back in real mode. The fifth time he opened the game and pressed spin he got wild desire, with FOUR wild reels. Only too see after a moment that this time it was in fun mode.

Horrible...to think you have won, when you havent.
 
A thing like this happened a friend of mine over at Betsafe. He played Immortal Romance and he kept getting "casino error 2", logged in again and continued playing, happened like 4 times, always back in real mode. The fifth time he opened the game and pressed spin he got wild desire, with FOUR wild reels. Only too see after a moment that this time it was in fun mode.

Horrible...to think you have won, when you havent.

Youre so right. We all know that programs have issues and cause that megadeth was a new game, thre were plenty on problems. Im still 100% sure that I won, but when it comes to matter of a one person vs. corporate, we know the result. They dont have to proof a thing.
Im have stopped playing in casinos at internet and suggested all my friens to do the same.

Sad case. Still remember that shine in my eyes with Totally win: 5100€ and 30sec from that.., well... didnt won a shit :/
 

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