Resolved BETAT Casino bonus issue

[paul7388]

Nice of you to post that Igor and we all know theres always two sides to a story. But its still the worrying bit where you stated the op isn't factually truthful tho she isn't WRONG. So from that im guessing at least the bit about highest bet of £1.50 is true. If so then I cant see why if her bets changed by amount she said that her play should have ever been investigated. Don't know ins and outs of how a casino works myself but this seems to be taking the checking of bonus abuse to far. The OP was wrong to threaten casinos and that's something no one should tolerate but on the other hand people will think tho she was wrong in how she dealt with it but she should never have been in that position. I just cant see why a casino should have to have meetings to see if someone should get paid because of betting patterns from those sized bets and fact you have not stated she bet higher makes it look like she at least told truth on that part.

 

[shanetospin]

Taking away from whether OP is right or wrong theres one thing that slightly bugs me in this thread and its not the first time ive saw it from BETAT. As Bryan has told the OP posting etc. can only harm her PAB which is true im just wondering why a personal email from the OP to BETAT should be posted. It happened a few months ago on the other thread as well. Other casino reps have posted before that they cant for security post private emails sent to them yet for some reason BETAT has done it again. I don't think its right for members here to post emails casinos send them but surely its definitely wrong for a casino to post emails sent to them.

My thread by any chance? lol!!

 

[Googobucs]

3) This case became a case of "payment under duress" instead of being what it should be about

This is WHY blatant flaming and posting half dozen threads to get your was SHOULD be met with zero tolerance.

The case is not whether OP deserved to be paiod or not at this point. It's whether her payment will be given for the right reasons, are we a trustworthy casino, or are we simply succumbing to aggressive threats and whims to save grace.

I tend to think my team and i stand for the right thing 100% of the time, even in the face of mistakes.

I'm sorry, but using the somebody called me a bad name is no excuse to not pay a player that won fairly. You are in the customer service industry and a certain amount of this goes with that territory.

You certainly have the right to defend yourself in the eye of the public, but as a respected company I expect you to rise above the stick and stones mentality.

 

[rshkrn]

I wish i can reply each and every one of you. Instead i'll need to create a all-encompassing post.

2) OP was due payment today, ironically. Bryan can confirm this thread had nothing to do with the decision. The time it took just needed due process - due to Monday raised -Tue afternoon resolution, Wed communication.

........

The case is not whether OP deserved to be paiod or not at this point. It's whether her payment will be given for the right reasons, are we a trustworthy casino, or are we simply succumbing to aggressive threats and whims to save grace.

Thanks for trying to clarify...

Could you please also clarify for other players the following, would really appreciate it:

- So if you had scheduled payment for today it means the betting span and pattern wasn't wrong and player was wrongfully denied payment to begin with?
- Payment has now been stopped due to the aggressive mail exchange and forum posting?

IMHO if the answers to both the questions above is YES, you already know whether or not you will pay after PAB

 

[paul7388]

My thread by any chance? lol!!

Lol think so Shane. But like I said its only casino that seems to post private emails. It would make me wary about sending a private email to them knowing if there was a dispute it would be posted over forums. Just don't think its right for a casino to do.

 

[shanetospin]

Lol think so Shane. But like I said its only casino that seems to post private emails. It would mae me wary about sending a private email to them knowing if there was a dispute it would be posted over forums. Just don't think its right for a casino to do.

I totally agree Paul, it is not only unprofessional but depending on the country of the casino is working in, it is also against data protection/confidentiality laws too. My post became an explosive thread because of such an act and the accusations that came with it. That said me and Igor, in a weird kind of way did amicably end on okay terms, and to my surprise he did send the funds back to my bank account from my original deposit, so he is a man of his word at least. Such posting of information however can very much damage a casino's reputation and really should be avoided at all costs, that goes for players posting casino emails and messages also.

 

[mimi26]

I'm sorry, but using the somebody called me a bad name is no excuse to not pay a player that won fairly. You are in the customer service industry and a certain amount of this goes with that territory.

You certainly have the right to defend yourself in the eye of the public, but as a respected company I expect you to rise above the stick and stones mentality.

I fully agree, I am actually quite shocked, so what is it then, keeping her winnings as a form of compensation to the casino for her reaction, although badly, to being told she was not being paid by A CS rep who has not had enough training to decide this issue,

 

[fun4all]

I'm sorry, but using the somebody called me a bad name is no excuse to not pay a player that won fairly. You are in the customer service industry and a certain amount of this goes with that territory.

You certainly have the right to defend yourself in the eye of the public, but as a respected company I expect you to rise above the stick and stones mentality.

I fully agree and I find the vast majority of reps on this board are courteous to all customers NO MATTER WHAT.


Not the case here and also some diverting from the real issue.

 

[leonardo99]

Betat must pay.. I can imagine I win a big amount to an accredited casino (for me 1000 + means alot ..I start to dream how I will spent money..and I receive an email like this from Betat..
I know the forum rules..but some members maybe never read the forum rules..maybe never registed to a forum like CM to read about accredited casinos ..
And not all players react the same..some are calm..some want the "money now"..some are very angry and react like this player.

Betat made the first mistake sendig that email about void winnings.. than player was shocked and angry ( player never react like this if his payment was approved - probably he post some wining screenshots and a thread to thanks to betat ).. I don't agree 100% player behaviour but Betat must pay and excuse for all this show ..And Betat must explain why player winnings was voided!!!! If something was under investigation ...why they sent an email to player until investigation wasn't 100% ready!!!

 

[Googobucs]

Betat must pay.. I can imagine I win a big amount to an accredited casino (for me 1000 + means alot ..I start to dream how I will spent money..and I receive an email like this from Betat..
I know the forum rules..but some members maybe never read the forum rules..maybe never registed to a forum like CM to read about accredited casinos ..
And not all players react the same..some are calm..some want the "money now"..some are very angry and react like this player.

Betat made the first mistake sendig that email about void winnings.. than player was shocked and angry ( player never react like this if his payment was approved - probably he post some wining screenshots and a thread to thanks to betat ).. I don't agree 100% player behaviour but Betat must pay and excuse for all this show ..And Betat must explain why player winnings was voided!!!! If something was under investigation ...why they sent an email to player until investigation wasn't 100% ready!!!

Without knowing all the details, I would not make bold statements like "Betat must pay".
I only hope that the OP's case will be judged fairly on the facts of her play and the T & C of the casino. IMO, nothing else is relevant in determining payment.

 

[chuchu59]

Igor82,

That is not a threat; it is fact that all of this will bring bad publicity to BETAT Casino and I will continue pursuing this as I feel I have been taken advantage of by BETAT.

I have every right to post online about what happened to me at Betat Casino on any forum I choose to and will continue to do so.

The bottom line is this is Unfair what BETAT has done to me and as a new customer playing on the Welcome Package; please just put yourself in my shoes - how do you expect me to feel about this?

I have been patiently waiting for someone to get back to me through email and nobody has so am to the point of starting this thread.

I don't really find your posts threatening but then you seem to be strong-arming the casino into submission.

If Betat used the ambiguous term in question to deny winnings then the bad publicity they get will cost them far more than the winnings they are thinking of confiscating. Many players lower their bets after a huge win to complete wagering whilst maintaining a steady RTP. This bonus strategy is very common and I have used it many times in the past. Betat already has a distinct advantage when players play with a bonus as different slots contribute different percentages to wagering and as I stated in another post elsewhere the actual contribution to wagering do not necessarily match what is stated in the terms. Just look at Blood Suckers.

In any case I would not expect an accredited casino like Betat to retain such an ambiguous term let alone enforce it. Of course we may not know all the details so I am still all ears.

 

[dave1888]

This is not the first time I have heard this reason being used. A couple of years ago a casino said to me the reason is because it looks like you are manipulating and trying to mess around with the RTP they actually said doing this can make the machine pay more than it should because you are altering your bet levels. Just complete bull though they are just using ridiculous reasons to not pay the winnings. I would just try and avoid doing it too obviously at Betat and other casinos like this. like if you are swapping bet every couple of spins it looks sus but if you give it at least 30 spins then change it doesn't flag up so easily . I still think this has no impact though think before the mg games were changed to quickfire it may have worked on the vintage mg slots ie ladies night tally ho loaded etc. But these glitches are all gone now.

 

[funnymunny]

If all we read here is to be believed, I can see fault on both sides... Op for perhaps not being patient and reacting badly when investigations were being done on her account & BetAt for possibly not having appropriately knowledgeable staff responding, as well as potentially not communicating the situation effectively.

Really makes me pleased I play without bonuses - they can be fantastically tempting, but I know that (more often than not) I'm too lazy to read the T's & C's properly, and then the potential frustrations when trying to cash-out should I be lucky enough to win. The down-side is I don't have as much to play with, but the up-side keeps my stress-free smile all the way through any win & withdrawal.

 

[Jory]

Delia may not have handled things the best but the casino has to expect this kind of behaviour from someone who trusted them with their money. They deposited honest money and won fairly, but the casino refuses to pay because of some bullshit term. To Dalia it feels like you just stole her money and I don't think she can be blamed for wanting to warn others, it's a very common reaction. I don't think this is a case of someone wanting to "blackmail" betat, but would consider it an understandable reaction to someone who feels betrayed. Having to wait days for an answer is no good. Every minute that passes the frustration builds and builds and eventually they snap and all hell breaks loose. At that moment you can't really judge their actions unless you have been in the exact same situation.

This thread is very bad publicity for betat regardless of Delia's behaviour and they only have themselves to blame. It will definitly play on peoples minds the next time they accept a bonus at this casino. They will have to worry about which bets they can make and whether or not their winnings would be denied. This kills the enjoyment of actually playing.

 

[aceking123]

hi a little chime about bet-at nothing wrong with the casino or the people running it, there a top notch outfit & very fair , ive had no problems with any payment regarding matter since they first opened there doors , ive played silly bets as they can confirm never once has this casino ever used that rule !

LuckyDalia26 i do feel for you but theres always a way to handle things youve crossed the line here , had you waited for contact with igor ,your problem no doubt would of been sorted promptly ive waited longer on a few things about payment alot longer ( not at betat ) , youve just jumped the gun & plastered them over here as being very bad to which is far from the truth & i wouldnt like to see them put through the mills for something which is clearly a minor mistake . sad realy i hope you get things sorted

bet-at i would say are a nice casino & fair i would like other users to see that other customers do regard them as a top casino & will remain a loyal player as this thread seems a little bit biased from the OP

 

[KasinoKing]

What a total waste of web-space and everyone's time this thread is.
Just a little bit of patience from the OP right at the start and all this could probably have been avoided.
No the OP looks bad, the casino looks bad and everyone is jumping to conclusions and speculating without having the full facts.
Boy, I wish I never started reading this thread.

KK

 

[Janek12]

This is how I see it:

The bonus term is vague. BUT the OP agreed to it. And under this bonus term, the casino has every right to void the winnings, if the OP lowered at any point during her play the bet from 1.00 to 0.30, let alone from 1.50 to 0.30.

But the term also PROMISES that each case will be investigated. What this actually means is that the player needs to rely on the reasonableness of Betat managers. One might say that a great number of players (and many posters here have admitted they use similar way of betting as the OP) are at the mercy of Betat managers.

But from what I have seen - the Betat managers are very reasonable and fair. So "being at their mercy" is actually not that bad . The term is there so that the casino could smoothly weed out blatant AP.

My personal experience is that I have played at Bet-at with a bonus and Bet-at let me keeping winnings of around 900 USD despite the fact that I unintentionally did a thing that is strongly frowned upon in most casinos, even accredited ones. I do not want to give any details in order not to give a recipe for people who would want to rip off this casino in a sneaky way (I dislike using the term AP).
But I can attest that they treated me absolutely fairly - actually, I asked customer support about the thing right when it happened, described to them what happened, and they just told me "it's your winnings, of course you can keep them".

With all that said, I am surprised that the decision to make the payment was OVERTURNED. The decision was supposed to be based on analysis of the way the OP played and it was found OK. IMHO, it is inadmissible to refuse payment because of how the player expressed themselves in e-mails and chats (although I of course do not agree with the OP's manners at all).

 

[BETAT]

Hi guys,
I won't comment directly on the case at hand, as this matter has been elevated to other parties.
I would however, just like to point out one quick thing: Re - Having to wait days for an answer is no good.

I was first contacted by the OP on the 18th and responded back the same day letting her know the case at hand was forwarded to the relevant people and being looked into. I do take all concerns seriously, and let's be very, very frank here - it's only just the 20th now. All messages were answered in a very timely manner and the OP was assured/answered on both the 18th and 19th that the case was being reviewed.

 

[leonardo99]

Hi guys,
I won't comment directly on the case at hand, as this matter has been elevated to other parties.
I would however, just like to point out one quick thing: Re - Having to wait days for an answer is no good.

I was first contacted by the OP on the 18th and responded back the same day letting her know the case at hand was forwarded to the relevant people and being looked into. I do take all concerns seriously, and let's be very, very frank here - it's only just the 20th now. All messages were answered in a very timely manner and the OP was assured/answered on both the 18th and 19th that the case was being reviewed.

Soon it's 21 and the payer wasn't paid..If player broked the rules before requesting the payment..just inform Max..and close this thread.. If not..I realy don't see why the player didn't received the payment yet.

 

[Igor82]

This is how I see it:

The bonus term is vague. BUT the OP agreed to it. And under this bonus term, the casino has every right to void the winnings, if the OP lowered at any point during her play the bet from 1.00 to 0.30, let alone from 1.50 to 0.30.

But the term also PROMISES that each case will be investigated. What this actually means is that the player needs to rely on the reasonableness of Betat managers. One might say that a great number of players (and many posters here have admitted they use similar way of betting as the OP) are at the mercy of Betat managers.

But from what I have seen - the Betat managers are very reasonable and fair. So "being at their mercy" is actually not that bad . The term is there so that the casino could smoothly weed out blatant AP.

My personal experience is that I have played at Bet-at with a bonus and Bet-at let me keeping winnings of around 900 USD despite the fact that I unintentionally did a thing that is highly frowned upon in most casinos, even accredited ones. I do not want to give any details in order not to give a recipe for people who would want to rip off this casino in a sneaky way (I dislike using the term AP).
But I can attest that they treated me absolutely fairly - actually, I asked customer support about the thing right when it happened, described to them what happened, and they just told me "it's your winnings, of course you can keep them".

With all that said, I am surprised that the decision to make the payment was OVERTURNED. The decision was supposed to be based on analysis of the way the OP played and it was found OK. IMHO, it is inadmissible to refuse payment because of how the player expressed themselves in e-mails and chats (although I of course do not agree with the OP's manners at all).

Regretfully, my polite request to allow me to take some time and write appropriately has fallen on deaf ears. The usual suspects crawled out of the woodwork and speculation has gone wild. It's become all-to-common occurrence on here sadly and it's sincerely making me reconsider my membership here.

I might have mis-wrote my post asking for more time. So let me clarify: After the decision to invalidate the bonus winnings was JUSTLY made by the promotional/fraud team due to CLEAR breach of terms case was escalated and decision was reched to pay the OP, this was yesterday.

FURTHER than this, person who decided to enforce the rule at a bet of $1.50 was reprimanded since a bet of $1.50 can hardly be considered to be advantage play, and even moreover, we have changed the term as well as the system logic to track bets greater than €6 now. During the one working day the OP was made to wait for the resolution, we prepared a response for her to show that not only we didn't do the unjust thing, but actually ensured such does not repeat.

What is really sad to see is the fallout on here. This community used to be a place of rationale, exchange of ideas and a forum where representatives of the industry can find voice and dialogue with it's customers. Reading these 6, 7 pages makes me wonder when did that change.

As promised the case will be explained in full, both toward the reasons why the initial decision, why we felt such decision should not have been made (hence the overturning of the decision to not pay, rather than overturning the decision to pay), what we did to be even more transparent, less ambiguous and ensure no future human error is minimised.

That will also be my final post here. BETAT rep and Casino Manger will remain to cater to any issues or difficulties if and when they arise.

Thanks

Igor

 

[bowki]

Why dont we just wait and let everybody involved do their job?

Its no big secret, i am a big fan of betat and i play almost exclusive at their brands nowadays. Im sure they will sort everything out and give us a final statement to this case and that particular rule.

I had some talk before with Dalia and as far as i know her she is a very nice person, too. I think everybody can understand how frustrating it can be to win big and have then troubles to receive the money. Sure, she overreacted a bit, but i understand her frustration.


Mistakes were made on both sides but im sure they will come to a good solution for both sides


edit: post was made before Igors last response. Would be sad if you leave because of this Igor. I really appreciate having 3 betat people here, including the CEO.

 

[aceking123]

What is really sad to see is the fallout on here. This community used to be a place of rationale, exchange of ideas and a forum where representatives of the industry can find voice and dialogue with it's customers. Reading these 6, 7 pages makes me wonder when did that change.

it has not changed igor & if you read via some lines a fair few players have spoken up about your casinos being a good one for everything which may look bad its seems you casino will be showed to be good which is worth its weight in gold anyway ,& what a outstanding reps we have here including yourself

pity the OP just didnt wait a little longer maybe down to very hot head please dont let sway your opinion of the players & members though )

 

[suzecat]

Sad and pitiful the OP learned NOTHING from her WinPalace debacle and instead started a new one against BETAT.

Those who have commented about how the forum used to be are sadly truthful IMO. I know it used to be a lot different and many of those members who helped make it that way have left.

Maybe a well deserved vacation would help the OP gain/regain some perspective and the importance of relaying the unvarnished truth.

Now the OP goes back on ignore.

 

[LuckyDalia26]

Hi everyone, I was asked to make another post and felt that I should also express my apologies on not having enough patience. I have been communicating some with Igor through private message and wanted to apologize to everyone for jumping to the gun and not having enough patience.

This was the last email I received from BetAt Casino before starting this thread.

Tuesday, August 19, 2014 4:31 PM
Ticket No.:*LTK17137084688X*(Please use this number in any further communication)
Dear Dalia,
Thank you for contacting us.
I would like to inform you that your request still under review by the Casino Manager.
We will let you know as soon as we have an decision made.
Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.
Kind regards,
BETAT Casino Support Team

I replied a few times to that email with no return reply but I should have had more patience and waited a few more days.

Without sharing too much of my communication that I've had with Igor through private message to respect his privacy I will only include this small part here -

“Please raise a PAB.ax already knows you will be paid” “Kindly raise a PAB.”

Igor has communicated with me very professionally and I have great respect for him and this thread is only my error and mistake in jumping to the gun and not having enough patience.

I apologize for my lack of patience and for even having to start this thread; I am sorry for my errors and mistakes and hope the BetAt casino representatives can find it in them to forgive me for any errors and mistakes on my part.

I think BetAt Casino is a very good and fair casino and I would have been quickly paid if I only just had more patience and waited a little longer. I have nothing against BetAt Casino and it appears I will be paid according to Igor but they are deciding on whether my account should remain open after being paid.

I am hoping that they will allow me to continue playing on their casino and I would gladly continue and play a lot more on their casino. I apologize for jumping to the gun on all of this and I have submitted the PAB as requested to do by Igor.

Thanks
Dalia

 

[Mosse]

Hope this sorts out good now.

Very big for Betat. Keep up the good job you are doing! You have exceptionally great casino and customer service there imo.

Hope Igor and other staff stays active and innovative here at CM as they have been earlier. There is no need anyone on any side to take anything here personally. I think thats everyones benefit.

I think many of us forum members jumped into wrong conclusions. So lets just wait now and get things settled here.