"sister sites" and refusing winnings

[Casinomeister]

Very good idea and should be pretty easy to implement. Gives yet more cred to the accredited list here. The more information players get the more they can make the right informed choices of where to play.

It's been done:

Must disclose all "sister" or related properties when applicable. If players are bound by terms that are enforced across a group of casinos, these casinos must be identified in an obvious place on the casino's website. For example: if a player is allowed only one sign up bonus for a group of casinos, these casinos need to be listed in the bonus terms and conditions (or an equally noticeable spot). If a player self-excludes from one property, the casino needs to identify all related properties that are affected by the exclusion as well.

Link Outdated / Removed

I'll be making an announcement later and get the Igaming reps on board with this. I don't foresee any problem.

 

[dunover]

It's been done:


Link Outdated / Removed

I'll be making an announcement later and get the Igaming reps on board with this. I don't foresee any problem.

Excellent! I remember either PM'ing you about this issue or typing a post regarding it then reporting it to you a couple of months back.
As I said at the time (paraphrasing myself here!) 'all it needs is a couple of lines of html editing, why the difficulty?'.

Once this is done by the accredited sites it'll lighten Max's workload as this has been the foundation for a few 'F-U complaints' recently. Thereafter if the terms are complete and this info is added to BOTH the main terms plus the specific terms link on any bonus banners/promos (this I think is important) then any F-U's will be down to the player.

A good day of progress at CM!!

 

[Deeplay]

It's been done:


Link Outdated / Removed

I'll be making an announcement later and get the Igaming reps on board with this. I don't foresee any problem.

Really good! and it should be not any real issue to list / make players aware on each of the sites if they are more than 1 in the group
and what this can mean for multi accounts etc. Should then stop a whole boat load of confusion for everyone. Transparency is everything
for both player and operator. Good call!

 

[maxd]

FWIW the PAB has been forwarded to the casino people, no response yet received.

 

[EGO]

Max , their reply was sent to you last night.
Please check

Krystal

FWIW the PAB has been forwarded to the casino people, no response yet received.

 

[maxd]

Max , their reply was sent to you last night.

Right you are! My mistake. I'll get on that right away.

 

[bigthompers]

Good luck Max, hopefully you don't end up hitting the same communication brick wall that I managed to hit!

 

[spintee]

Good luck Max, hopefully you don't end up hitting the same communication brick wall that I managed to hit!

Thats the thing that annoys me, Max has the contacts and no how to sort a few things out, But just imagine all the others that have probs that do not no about this sort of help? It really scares me, I personally run into no trouble in over 10 years, But as I bet small I guess will be diffrent if big wins?

 

[Casinomeister]

I exclude from all sites that I don't longer use, mainly because I don't want anybody gaining access to one that I've forgotten about and help themselves. That actually happened to a friend on bet365. So is the general conscientious here that I'm screwed, for want of a better term??

Bullshit. Liar.

Oh a tangled web we weave....

This is the same guy:
needhelp21

Who was banned from the forum for this scam:
21.co.uk Casino Problem

How do I know? I receive copies of most posts via email - the original posts. He posted a chat session but forgot to edit out his email address:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/21-co-uk-casino-problem.66411/

He edited it after posting - but I have the original.

He's a friggin' scammer:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/21-co-uk.66396/

And it's the same email address he used for this account:

thompers

In which he "quit gambling" after submitting a PAB against Dublinbet for doing basically the same thing.

He even had the gall to post a gofundme link for his gambling funds:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/help-needed.61940/

And so he is here trying to pull a scam with Mega Casino etc. So I guess the adage "When there is a will, there is a way" is in effect here. This guy is willing to throw his integrity and honor under the bus for what? Money? Problem gambler maybe - but he is definite a liar and a cheat, and I would recommend any casino that catches this guy to contact the metropolitan police department and press criminal charges of defrauding a business owner. That's the wake up call he needs.

 

[Dinahnana]

Bullshit. Liar.

Oh a tangled web we weave....

This is the same guy:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/34642/

Who was banned from the forum for this scam:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/21-co-uk-casino-problem.66411/

How do I know? I receive copies of most posts via email - the original posts. He posted a chat session but forgot to edit out his email address:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/21-co-uk-casino-problem.66411/

He edited it after posting - but I have the original.

He's a friggin' scammer:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/21-co-uk.66396/

And it's the same email address he used for this account:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/search

In which he "quit gambling" after submitting a PAB against Dublinbet for doing basically the same thing.

He even had the gall to post a gofundme link for his gambling funds:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/61940/

And so he is here trying to pull a scam with Mega Casino etc. So I guess the adage "When there is a will, there is a way" is in effect here. This guy is willing to throw his integrity and honor under the bus for what? Money? Problem gambler maybe - but he is definite a liar and a cheat, and I would recommend any casino that catches this guy to contact the metropolitan police department and press criminal charges of defrauding a business owner. That's the wake up call he needs.

You can always count on Bryan and the gang to weed out the fraudsters and scammers. I and I am sure many others have noticed an increase in Self-Exclusion issues brought to the forum this year. Some I have no doubt are genuine cases but I think many are not. It astounds me to see how far some people will go for a buck.Glad this guy was shown the door...again.

My advice to players who are not problem gamblers is to close the account at the casino you no longer want to play at instead of self-exclusion That is what I do.

Cheers

 

[ugaboga]

Yeah he obviously read the forum and thought he was onto something with this 'trick' to develop a guaranteed way to 'gamble' without the risk of losing.

I guess there are a lot of scammers reading these forums trying to sniff out opportunities.

There are still issues that need to be addressed with self exclusion. If the Casinos were proactive in vetting new signings (cross checking them with a central db), these issues can largely be avoided.

 

[Casinomeister]

...
There are still issues that need to be addressed with self exclusion. If the Casinos were proactive in vetting new signings (cross checking them with a central db), these issues can largely be avoided.

I agree, but it's tricky when players are signing up trying to avoid detection using different email addresses, etc. Most fraudsters do what they can do to fly under the radar.

 

[Casinomeister]

Back to the issue at hand, the casino was 100% in the right to do what they did - there was no scam or rogue activity like some members have implied.

It is clear that when you self exclude, you are admitting to quitting altogether. Self exclusion is not a tool to keep you from playing your winnings back, to stop receiving email promotions, or to close an account because you didn't win enough. Self exclusion should only be used when you can't control yourself - you cannot trust yourself not to deposit money into a casino. If you self excluding at one casino, you should not be playing anywhere - period.

If you are self-excluding yourself for any reason besides having a gambling problem, then you are doing it wrong. Don't self exclude - instead, just don't play.

The casinos' licensing requires the casino NOT to accept bets from SE players, and the deposits are returned. There were no winnings confiscated because the deposits were voided. I don't get why some members here get all riled up thinking that the casino was pulling a fast one - and some of the more seasoned members should be able to understand what is going on.

On the casino's main index page is the following link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That lists all of the casinos connected to the same license. The player should have been fully aware - and he was. He is well versed in the scam he was trying to pull off. He's done it numerous times.

 

[paul7388]

Wish I could say I was surprised the way this thread turned out but unfortunately im not.

As someone that doesn't even bother closing accounts I just don't go back to them this whole self exclusion business does my head in. Never got why people self exclude all the time then get in these messes.

Fine if you have a gambling problem then self exclude from everywhere and give up gambling and get help. But looking here and at other forums it seems every man and his dog seems to be self excluding , signing up to a sister site and losing then claiming deposits back.

Okay some casinos its hard to know who is connected and mistakes can be made. But its blatantly obvious from different forums there are many that think this is the best thing out. Sign up to a casino related to a self excluded one. Deposit if you can then take chances on whether or not you get your withdrawal. If they catch you you don't get winnings but hey you get deposit back anyway so nothing lost. If you don't manage to win play the I shouldn't have been allowed to deposit as self excluded elsewhere and get deposit back anyway.

No lose for player yet casinos are getting caught out and ripped apart. Anyway not expecting anyone to agree with what I said but inmy opinion its happening a lot. Tho there are players who are genuinely signing up to casinos there seems to be a vast amount that are knowingly doing it as well.

 

[lockinlove]

Back to the issue at hand, the casino was 100% in the right to do what they did - there was no scam or rogue activity like some members have implied.

It is clear that when you self exclude, you are admitting to quitting altogether. Self exclusion is not a tool to keep you from playing your winnings back, to stop receiving email promotions, or to close an account because you didn't win enough. Self exclusion should only be used when you can't control yourself - you cannot trust yourself not to deposit money into a casino. If you self excluding at one casino, you should not be playing anywhere - period.

If you are self-excluding yourself for any reason besides having a gambling problem, then you are doing it wrong. Don't self exclude - instead, just don't play.

The casinos' licensing requires the casino NOT to accept bets from SE players, and the deposits are returned. There were no winnings confiscated because the deposits were voided. I don't get why some members here get all riled up thinking that the casino was pulling a fast one - and some of the more seasoned members should be able to understand what is going on.

On the casino's main index page is the following link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That lists all of the casinos connected to the same license. The player should have been fully aware - and he was. He is well versed in the scam he was trying to pull off. He's done it numerous times.

I am curious on your take with this.

If two different players who self excluded previous... sign up and play. One players wins the other player loses.

Apparently the terms of casinos are the players get their deposits back and thats all and accounts closed.

So is it ok for the casino to confinscate the winnings but return the deposits. But the losing player doesnt get their deposits returned?

Shouldnt the deposits just be returned regardless of the outcome?

To me it seems like the casino just freerolls in this situation. They never lose as they dont payout winnings and more times then not they win because the excluded player loses and they dont give those deposits back.

The only thing that should end up happening is the self excluded player just ends up wasting his or her time since they are never going to cashout.

I am not saying this is the situation now that you have outted said scammer but it did look the way the casino was heading before these facts came to be

 

[Finn]

Most of this "Slots Magic having it both ways" misconception seems to stem from that some people seem to think that Jackpot Party and Slots Magic are sister casinos.

They are not.

From jurisdictional point of view, sister casinos are casinos that operate under same license, and if you are self-excluded at one of those casinos operating under same license, you are self-excluded at all casinos operating under that same license.

Jackpot Party was an online casino that used to operate under Alderney license, from which Slots Magic, that operates under Malta license, bought player databases and stuff. They don't even operate under the same jurisdiction, so obviously from jurisdictional point of view, they are not sister casinos. A person who self-excluded at Jackpot Party, self-excluded themselves under that Alderney license, and person who self-excludes themselves at Slots Magic or "sister" casinos, self-excludes themselves from all casinos operating under Malta license LGA/CL1/563/2009 .

Since both Slots Magic and Mega Casino operate under LGA/CL1/563/2009, Malta Gambling Authority views them as sister casinos, and self-exclusion rules apply. MGA doesn't care about Alderney self-exclusions, thus this case isn't directly comparable to that case where player had self-excluded themselves at Jackpot Party, and then opened Slots Magic account and started to complain when he lost.

 

[Casinomeister]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. There were no winnings. All of the player's game-play was null and void. It's like he never existed.

Another thing is that a number of members here think that this was a casino decision. This is a regulatory decision - the casino's hands are tied, they cannot except the player's bets, losses or winnings. This is a directive from the licensing agency. Violate this and lose your license.

I would feel for the player if this was an honest mistake, but I thought I had made it clear that this guy has made a habit of this doing this - he's done it numerous times.

 

[dunover]

I should've guessed at the outset - a forum user signing up with an alternative name for 'big tits'. Quite appropriate in retrospect.

 

[Googobucs]

If you are self-excluding yourself for any reason besides having a gambling problem, then you are doing it wrong. Don't self exclude - instead, just don't play.

This statement here really sums it all up for me. This is a tool to help people quit.

Now in this particular case the OP was a lying scum bag, but we are also seeing plenty of threads where the casino should have known to not open an account for the player because they were registering with the same information they had excluded at at sister site.

The Casino's make no effort to keep these folks from registering upfront because they don't care. If the player wins they wont pay and if they lose they wont refund.

It's easy to point fingers at scum balls like this OP, but the casino's themselves enable people like this to begin with. If they did any kind of database check during the registration then I'm sure even this guy would have thrown a red flag. Something had to be similar if he hoped to get paid. He had to have used a real address or name on his deposit method.
Bottom line is that IMO, If the casino's wanted to stop this activity they could but there is no incentive for them to act.

 

[Dagobert]

I happend to me to. Cassava group.

This same thing happend to me at secretslots earlier this year. I won a couple of hundreds, the account was closed and I got the deposit money back. I got the winnings also after including both of their regulators is the email correspondance.

Now I saw a great offer from Wicked Jackpots + they had WMS! I opened an account. Again won a couple of hundreds and now account closed an deposit returned.
I never checked the small writing at the bottom saying Cassava. I will from now on!

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD? To make a filter that prevents certain emails from signing up? I always use the same email.

I tried just calling them this time, they are very polite and I am sure that my 205 euro profit will be paid. But WHY make this possible at all if they do not want me as a customer?

BTW: They still can not name the casino I supposedly excluded myself from in the beginning...

 

[spintee]

This same thing happend to me at secretslots earlier this year. I won a couple of hundreds, the account was closed and I got the deposit money back. I got the winnings also after including both of their regulators is the email correspondance.

Now I saw a great offer from Wicked Jackpots + they had WMS! I opened an account. Again won a couple of hundreds and now account closed an deposit returned.
I never checked the small writing at the bottom saying Cassava. I will from now on!

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD? To make a filter that prevents certain emails from signing up? I always use the same email.

I tried just calling them this time, they are very polite and I am sure that my 205 euro profit will be paid. But WHY make this possible at all if they do not want me as a customer?

BTW: They still can not name the casino I supposedly excluded myself from in the beginning...

There is a lot of unhappy customers playing at casava, The best part is that there bingo sites have a hell of alot of slots now, They must of clicked on an realised that machines are they way, Better still as you said they now have casino opening up, I have had many snail mail sent and rule are stupid, I must stress that so far I not had a problem with them and do play there odd sites with a good bonus but will nether sign up to likes of wicked JP's or secret slots in the near future ,

& to cut you hands of with the wager req, Than slots count as 90%, Nothing counts as 100% and the bingo sites play threw is 99% on slots

 

[Dagobert]

They still refuse.

There is a lot of unhappy customers playing at casava, The best part is that there bingo sites have a hell of alot of slots now, They must of clicked on an realised that machines are they way, Better still as you said they now have casino opening up, I have had many snail mail sent and rule are stupid, I must stress that so far I not had a problem with them and do play there odd sites with a good bonus but will nether sign up to likes of wicked JP's or secret slots in the near future ,

& to cut you hands of with the wager req, Than slots count as 90%, Nothing counts as 100% and the bingo sites play threw is 99% on slots

I would advise everyone to stay far away from cassava and 888 group.

They are running a scam. They still cannot tell me what casino I excluded from.

They refuse the winnings and I had to report them to their regulators.

Non of the 888 (cassava) reps answer me on the forum.

STAY AWAY! If it says Cassava!

 

[xxshepxx]

I Joined 888 several years ago.

Got some freespins, Won a Jackpot over £1000, never deposited so they had to send me a cheque.

All was well with me, no doc's or anything, just like any other casino I have played at.

888 casava do muddy the waters however with so many sites/interests, and it's the age old, "you can deposit as much as you like, but if you have self ecluded from one of our 100's of casino's you wont get any winnings"

 

[anonymo]

So do I get it right?

So if I understand everything right and from what I've read at some other forums, I'f a casino closes your account due to SE at a sister site under the same licensce,they would be forced to pay ALL deposits back, not just the one that the win originated from?! And if they don't do that and the player turns to the licensing comission they would probably be forced to pay the deposits back?

 

[Tirilej]

So if I understand everything right and from what I've read at some other forums, I'f a casino closes your account due to SE at a sister site under the same licensce,they would be forced to pay ALL deposits back, not just the one that the win originated from?! And if they don't do that and the player turns to the licensing comission they would probably be forced to pay the deposits back?

That depend on when he SE'd from the other casino.
You can't claim deposit of a lifetime, just the ones you never could have cashed out from.