Tips Reduced Slot RTP's - How YOU Are Affected!

[slot_zombie]

Even though it's bonus buy, it's a solid sample to get idea of rRTP and reach somewhere near tRTP within SD. (with over 50k bonus buys)

Have you managed to get a max 5000x win? With such a sample, it can be expected to be 10+ max wins.

Not sure what's the chance of winning free spins in the base game, but assuming bonus buy is 100xbet, it should be in the range of 1:200 + ; and chance of getting max win without bonus buy is 1/697350.

I've had 7 max wins.

 

[deleted20230517]

I never had a max win on Gates... I did had it on Madame destiny, fruit party and a bunch of more games.

Gates? Hell no. But i learned that after playing on a BTC based casino, the fun is quite better to be honest. Games are stretched to a 96.97% version on which "normal" casino's only have 96.5% as a absolute highest. I'm sure there is difference in versions such as volatility, frequency and what more to "suit" the casino. Best part is, the instant payout(s) so far, on which a normal casino, even with all today's tech, is locked at a minimum of 48 hours, with the option to cancel...

Had a crazy run today, from 500$ deposit all the way up to 5500$. Nice cashout that was. In <5 minutes on my wallet.

 

[slot_zombie]

I may be gone some time.

Gates Of Heaven (GATES OF OLYMPUS CLONE) - 98% RTP out today.

 

[slot_zombie]

Just ran 80 bonus buys through it and first impressions with half the house edge it feels a lot more forgiving than Gates.

Better tumbles, more multis crashing in. Up $150 so far.

I do know my Gates like the back of my hand, and it does seem like an improvement, but still early days and we will see.

 

[deleted20230517]

Yeah and once people get used to it watch the RTP turned back suddenly. I hate it. its just a cash grab for casino's / providers.

 

[deleted20230517]

I wrote the legislator, since none of the casino's can give me a proper answer to the obvious.

Hello,

I play for 5 years by now on *country* online casino's, from *country*.

I however never seem to get ahead in comparison to what i deposit. Why is this ? And why is there a difference in casino A being more tight to casino B in *country*? Why is that difference, if the "RTP" or "mathematical" thing should be random and appearantly unique?

Is it true that casino's here are setup in such a way that i'm basicly gambling against my own money?

A casino is never going to give me the proper answer, due to the NDA's it likely signed, and always responds to me with a default copy paste message.

I mean the best given example is, if i have a losing streak, i can kind of assume that on most games on the board i will likely lose and deplete my deposit quite fast. When i'm on a winning streak it is all the games all over the board hitting one after another. This is usually to a certain soft or hard limit of a balance, to where it starts making me lose again. This is obviously a pattern that ive seen with over 3 casino's here in *country* and it's no coincidence.

Its like i'm betting against my own money depositted over a certain amount of time. If slots where to be random, or if winning streaks where to be completely random, why is this behaviour after "peaking" to a certain level of funds, always yielding in a downward spiral no matter what you do? I can switch to a 15 different games and be rinsed financially all over the board.

I'd like to know if my assumption is correct, because if thats the case, i'm quitting to play on Online casino's in *country* in general, and switch over to BTC based ones. To be honest, for the money i'm depositting at those BTC casino's i'm getting quite more fun or action compared to these *country* casino's. One even being more tight then the other.

Games are licenced to showcase in the portfolio of the casino. I think my winnings overall come from the casino itself and not the provider. The provider is the one that provides the math and tools, but in general i dont believe that one slot or a set of slots could even pay more then the games are being wagered on as a sort of safety precaution. The obvious, soft limit appearing in game when winning, and the hard limit i can see it's there too. I always seem to have the same action; 7 out of 10 deposits are bust. Here and there you can get a win but in general it will land you two times on that value, before it starts to make you lose again. These are obvious patterns that i can tell from various casino's. Some people who see me play don't believe me that when i have this winning streak, i just seem to perfectly understand which buttons to play and when i can tell that party is over.

All that is'nt random. The only thing random happening is when out of those 7 to 10 deposits are going to give a (proper) return.

I hope a get a response, and a clear explanation on why this casino behaviour is happening on all 3 to 5 casino's i used to play at. At some i even closed my account, because of the appearant and strict slots they have running. They don't like winners.

To be honest, it's no fun for me lately knowing or seeing the obvious. I hope someone of that legislation reaches out to me. If so, perhaps there can be a definitive answer to what i'm looking at for years here. If thats the case, instant closure of my account(s), a big fuck you, and i'm out.

 

[toms596]

I've often wondered does a provider use one RNG for all their games?

Many times you have sessions where everything bonuses and plays well and then the complete opposite where everything goes dead.

 

[deleted20230517]

As i said, the best case evidence for this is,

The 7 out of 10 deposits. Most of the time your held on a very tiny red string, and when it pops off it's usually across the board, all games, even the games that never seem to paid and suddenly it does.

I've bin dealing with this for some time now, ive asked the question quite often here. And i either got mocked or boo'd away from it. But it's getting more appearant and i'm not the only one. The fact that you have new released games with juiced RTP's up to 98% to be turned down the second the game becomes populair. I mean upon release sugar rush it was a fest of wins, and now it's turned to absolute junk.

People now cheering about having 4 scatters n shit, a proper bonus is at least 100x your betsize, and not this teasing nonsense in which more and more games seem to exceed in now. Best example gates of olympus; great *insert multi* x start to have you spit out in the next couple of dead spins.

The experience is just turning to complete shit if you ask me. I think BTC based casino's ( unfortunately ) are a bit of the new safe havens. I used to be extremely carefull with these but i slowly got into it. The RTP's are the highest among the industry it seems and the best part a withdrawal is processed within 10 minutes. Within 5 hours it's on my bank account. A normal licenced casino (where i play from) maintains a 48 hour delay...

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

 

[slot_zombie]

Last Gates post.

Just to note that there's been a software update today and as a result, GOH now has possibly one of the most amped-up, OTT, dramatic sound packages in slot history.

The bozo on the right who throws out the multipliers now has a voice, and he's not afraid to use it.

FEEL MY POWER! HIDDEN TREASURES! LORD OF GOLD! and other assorted catchphrases are shouted at the player whenever there is any action on-screen. It's fairly nuts now.

 

[snorky510238]

I've often wondered does a provider use one RNG for all their games?

Many times you have sessions where everything bonuses and plays well and then the complete opposite where everything goes dead.

It’s definitely not just pot luck as we are led to believe that is for sure.

Online gambling absolutely sinks at present and will only get worse. The whole industry needs a thorough investigation. It happened 20 years too late with FOBT’s and here we go again.

The whole industry is corrupt but at the same time untouchable.

 

[justdoit]

It’s definitely not just pot luck as we are led to believe that is for sure.

Online gambling absolutely sinks at present and will only get worse. The whole industry needs a thorough investigation. It happened 20 years too late with FOBT’s and here we go again.

The whole industry is corrupt but at the same time untouchable.

I agree that is corrupt start from top (MPs) down to casinos, not surprised if UK MPs even get money from crypto casinos, foreigner like me I can go to central London casino spend £1000s no one will ask me anything about affordability, but Brits need affordability check to spend £150pm is crazy what is happen... UK MPs are like Mafia Boss

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[deleted20230517]

That's what lobbists are paid for obviously... Lobby in their best interest. Not the public.

 

[FAZI1]

One fast question offered same slots in demo mode in higher RTP% and in real mode in lower rtp% is normal things? im noticed example Tsars do this in case Pragmatic slots after we click demo button in any of their pragmatic slots then its display 96% RTP but when we click Real Mode play in any of their Pragmatic slots is show 94% RTP - Slots shoudnt have same same set ups rtp% in demo and real mode ?

 

[dunover]

One fast question offered same slots in demo mode in higher RTP% and in real mode in lower rtp% is normal things? im noticed example Tsars.com - Online Casino do this in case Pragmatic slots after we click demo button in any of their pragmatic slots then its display 96% RTP but when we click Real Mode play in any of their Pragmatic slots is show 94% RTP - Slots shoudnt have same same set ups rtp% in demo and real mode ?

Yes, they should in any decent jurisdiction, obviously a shithole site.

 

[FAZI1]

Yes, they should in any decent jurisdiction, obviously a shithole site.

Yep this casino win Best casino of the Year in AskG site in last years thats clear show how industry if full of trap ( by the way all voice they buy for promised free spins for players offered for vote on them and show in live chat screnshot vote )

 

[snorky510238]

That’s nothing! Videoslots advertise rtp’s that come nowhere near being met yet nothing happens to them. Close between them and BTG for crooks of the year.

P.S. Thought it was really harsh they didn’t win it last year.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Even Tombola have "adjusted" their RTP now, not by much. But we can see where this is going.

From 98.25% on their slots to 98%

 

[xheldx]

As i said, the best case evidence for this is,

The 7 out of 10 deposits. Most of the time your held on a very tiny red string, and when it pops off it's usually across the board, all games, even the games that never seem to paid and suddenly it does.

I've bin dealing with this for some time now, ive asked the question quite often here. And i either got mocked or boo'd away from it. But it's getting more appearant and i'm not the only one. The fact that you have new released games with juiced RTP's up to 98% to be turned down the second the game becomes populair. I mean upon release sugar rush it was a fest of wins, and now it's turned to absolute junk.

People now cheering about having 4 scatters n shit, a proper bonus is at least 100x your betsize, and not this teasing nonsense in which more and more games seem to exceed in now. Best example gates of olympus; great *insert multi* x start to have you spit out in the next couple of dead spins.

The experience is just turning to complete shit if you ask me. I think BTC based casino's ( unfortunately ) are a bit of the new safe havens. I used to be extremely carefull with these but i slowly got into it. The RTP's are the highest among the industry it seems and the best part a withdrawal is processed within 10 minutes. Within 5 hours it's on my bank account. A normal licenced casino (where i play from) maintains a 48 hour delay...

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

This feels so true sometimes and I also wonder whetever a userid is tie to its own RTP on some sites. Because if a game goes hot i know the other games go hot also. I am a big winner and I follow my stats, when my overall site RTP hits 95-96% sites go completely dead so I have to transfer my winnings from other sites to risk them playing in a different way. If i hit my own RTP as i call it games can be dead for weeks. Maybe my brain follow patterns but it keep me on winning more than loosing.

 

[deleted20230517]

Really i'm not going to throw in (more) money to "prove" the obvious thats bin going on.

I've bin having quite more fun and action on other places by now.

 

[xheldx]

As i said, the best case evidence for this is,

The 7 out of 10 deposits. Most of the time your held on a very tiny red string, and when it pops off it's usually across the board, all games, even the games that never seem to paid and suddenly it does.

I've bin dealing with this for some time now, ive asked the question quite often here. And i either got mocked or boo'd away from it. But it's getting more appearant and i'm not the only one. The fact that you have new released games with juiced RTP's up to 98% to be turned down the second the game becomes populair. I mean upon release sugar rush it was a fest of wins, and now it's turned to absolute junk.

People now cheering about having 4 scatters n shit, a proper bonus is at least 100x your betsize, and not this teasing nonsense in which more and more games seem to exceed in now. Best example gates of olympus; great *insert multi* x start to have you spit out in the next couple of dead spins.

The experience is just turning to complete shit if you ask me. I think BTC based casino's ( unfortunately ) are a bit of the new safe havens. I used to be extremely carefull with these but i slowly got into it. The RTP's are the highest among the industry it seems and the best part a withdrawal is processed within 10 minutes. Within 5 hours it's on my bank account. A normal licenced casino (where i play from) maintains a 48 hour delay...

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

This feels so true sometimes and I also wonder whetever a userid is tie to its own RTP on some sites. Because if a game goes hot i know the other games go hot also. I am a big winner and I follow my stats, when my overall site RTP hits 95-96% sites go completely dead so I have to transfer my winnings from other sites to risk them playing in a different way. If i hit my own RTP as i call it games can be dead for weeks. Maybe my brain follow patterns but it keep me on winning more than loosing. But the

Really i'm not going to throw in (more) money to "prove" the obvious thats bin going on.

I've bin having quite more fun and action on other places by now.

If this is obvious its probably tied upon a CRM type of control which forces a negative seed to the userid when its loading the game IF over avrage RTP.

Because when it happens its impossible to get a big win, luck and variance dosnt exist, because everything is completely dead until I deposit again, I had the chance to test this with 10000 euro on a site i had overall 96% RTP on.

I had over 50-60x2 bonus rounds on Reactoonz1/2 without any big wins. My wife thought I was crazy, for me it was obvious, everything was dead for weeks. I finally got the cash back when my overall RTP was weaker.
She said: How do you know when to win?

 

[jasonuk]

Given there's an influx of conspiracy to the thread, perhaps it's important to remind that Apophenia is a thing (the ability to perceive patterns or meaningful connections in random or unrelated data). If you think something isn't right, start recording data for it - will give you a more level-headed approach, and possibly something that can be validated by a third party (such as the CM community).

If casino's impose a change, place a phat warning. A dialog since you last visit "The $variable has changed from X to Y" - Then at least we know what we're up against. Casino's and providers are becoming more and more greedy, because they have established themself at this point. Who in their right mind would go out to a landbased now while it's ease of access to online casino's.

Absolutely, and something the UKGC (and other regulators) have dropped the ball on - a casino such as WH sending out an email (as discussed in similar threads), full of broken links, talking about changes to the game without actually mentioning what those changes are, is nigh on useless... and the operators obviously know this given their internal references (which sometimes leak out to URLs) include text like "RTP changes".

I did like that some providers started to surface summary stats in their game help / loading screens - but sadly isn't gaining traction... it really needs the regulators to be pushing that one forward.

The bigger issue for a lot of casual players is they don't understand the shift in playstyles:
* 10 years ago you could play a 96% game, that bonuses every 150-200 spins with a 30-50x bonus average, that you'd have a modest shot at a 300-500x win, and an outside chance at a monster hit (1000x+), but similarly you'd feel pretty hard done by to lose 30% across 250 spins
* Today, there are plenty of 90-94% games, that bonus every 300-600 spins with a 100-200x bonus average (that staggeringly can still pay zero or 1x), where the base game makes paint drying look exciting, and you could easily go 100, 200 or 300 spins without a single 10x win (and in some extreme cases, a 5x win).

So not only are the house winning faster, but players on the wrong end of the ultra high variance curve are going to take an absolute beating because they think about the former but play the latter - plenty of more sensible variance slots out there, still a few casinos offering full-fat RTPs but sadly diminishing quickly...

Would people call that entertainment, or would they call it addiction? It's a close call...

 

[deleted20230517]

It is no secret that same games do impose first deposit triggers in my experience, best example is putting a autospin for 30, 50 to 100 and get the first few spins some action and the rest pretty much zero. Or the usual "near misses" either at when your auto spin is about to end or when your balance is about to bust.

I also noticed that, my action only starts at when i nearly lost my deposit. As if it was programmed to at least wager my money before something happens. They dont want people who do a deposit, in the next spins win big and cash out (all) the remaining.

I just find it strange that out of 10 deposits, 7 are always or by default a bust, while in the middle somewhere i manage to play "even". But it's impossible to break beyond that if you know what i mean. I pretty much threw every strategy at it you can think of.

Once your in that losing downward spiral it's just going to continue untill, your next deposit. And that's even coming from a 2k balance with over 20 games played that all consistent paid bad or just did nothing. You tell me what the magic behind that is.

I mean if slots are random, you'd expect that out of 20 games with each 100 spins played out, something must come out of it right? Well... I'm not going to record my session or trying to prove a point that for me and now slowly others is becoming more and more obvious.

It really is no mystery, afterall my userID and casinoID is send among the URL i'm visiting when playing a game. So technically they could not just monitor stats but also keep me to the desired RTP overall. Is'nt it strange that even high end funded streamers that gamble up the millions still don't seem to crack the code and actually be ahead? Or are there mechanics at work that keep the player where he should be?

Afterall, the message is advertised everywhere that, gambling should be considered as entertainment, and no way a way to make money. So lets say i deposit 100 on each casino, i should get ahead at at least one right? Or are there other things again, at play?

 

[snorky510238]

It is no secret that same games do impose first deposit triggers in my experience, best example is putting a autospin for 30, 50 to 100 and get the first few spins some action and the rest pretty much zero. Or the usual "near misses" either at when your auto spin is about to end or when your balance is about to bust.

I also noticed that, my action only starts at when i nearly lost my deposit. As if it was programmed to at least wager my money before something happens. They dont want people who do a deposit, in the next spins win big and cash out (all) the remaining.

I just find it strange that out of 10 deposits, 7 are always or by default a bust, while in the middle somewhere i manage to play "even". But it's impossible to break beyond that if you know what i mean. I pretty much threw every strategy at it you can think of.

Once your in that losing downward spiral it's just going to continue untill, your next deposit. And that's even coming from a 2k balance with over 20 games played that all consistent paid bad or just did nothing. You tell me what the magic behind that is.

I mean if slots are random, you'd expect that out of 20 games with each 100 spins played out, something must come out of it right? Well... I'm not going to record my session or trying to prove a point that for me and now slowly others is becoming more and more obvious.

It really is no mystery, afterall my userID and casinoID is send among the URL i'm visiting when playing a game. So technically they could not just monitor stats but also keep me to the desired RTP overall. Is'nt it strange that even high end funded streamers that gamble up the millions still don't seem to crack the code and actually be ahead? Or are there mechanics at work that keep the player where he should be?

Afterall, the message is advertised everywhere that, gambling should be considered as entertainment, and no way a way to make money. So lets say i deposit 100 on each casino, i should get ahead at at least one right? Or are there other things again, at play?

Yes, I have been saying it for ages. It’s absolute bullshit and anyone that has an ounce of astuteness about them, can’t fail to see it.

What you say is bang on the money regarding the way games play. I have noticed exactly the same thing. The other day, I did something I have never done before. I deposited £20, got to £30 and hovered there for a while. The run of dead spins came so I withdrew the £20 back because I just knew I would have lost it.

That’s how predictable this whole farce has become. A complete waste of time and money. You’re not gambling, you’re being systematically robbed.

 

[deleted20230517]

Very true, often the "double your deposit" kind of thing (like pour in 20, win 40) and it Tumbles you down right after.

I had a 140k win some time ago; but to be honest, if i run the numbers, i think thats around what i must have deposit in some time of play spread over the course of time.

Rocknrollah had it; he had that magic hit of 100k on a certain game. But admitted later that that number was pretty much what he deposit. The Bandit Slots too with his 6 pound 100k win on Fruit party. He said something down the line that, 100k on avg was what he did deposit over time.

So lets say we're not getting beyond that 96.5% on avg then, tell me what the point is gambling is? The casino and provider just snoops off a percentage of what you overall deposit then.

Ive talked about it with someone; the only way to really get ahead seems to be live games then. Cards, roulette etc. Because if served right, there's virtually no RTP and it's just the luck of the hand, right?

But point me a casino out that on long term is constantly getting ahead and does'nt ban you.

 

[deleted20230517]

And, theory on soft & hard limit does seem to exist as well on slots.

You can soft limit your way up to a certain value, but the hard limit pretty much ensures you just don't pass that number.

I think slots 10 years ago where quite more fun before legislation came in; or before providers got greedy, or before both casino's and provider's seeked loophole's in current regulation.

It's a money business afterall. There's a big difference in my experience playing a 96.50% version vs a 97% version. And you got simular RTP's but with deducted bonus triggers, deducted volatility and what more. But they are'nt forced to present it in a help file. I can create a slot with 100% RTP and still screw you over if i count it over the zillion of spins; and magically have the RTP do it's magic for the 10 cents players.