PR: ECOGRA REPORT ON THE GRAND PRIV AFFILIATE PROGRAM INVESTIGATION

This response from eCOGRA has just been received by Daera who posted this over on the GPWA Forum - I will quote it word for word, but will also link back to the post in question.

We have noted your concern raised as to the adequacy of the settlement amount recommended by the eCOGRA investigators.

We would like to emphasise that our mandate from Grand Prive was to review all records provided by the company in respect of the Grand Prive Affiliate Program software and related database. We were not requested to review any other affiliate program system or information, nor were we made aware of any other system or pertinent information.

We are confident that the settlement amounts have been correctly calculated based on our mandate and the affiliate and player data provided to us by Grand Prive at the time of the review. Regrettably we cannot legally perform any further investigation work into this matter unless mandated by Grand Prive management. Such a mandate has not to date been forthcoming.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


So a couple of things here to comment on:

Grand Prive instructed eCOGRA to carry out this audit.

Grand Prive provided the data and one can assume that eCOGRA did not ask for any additional data.

eCOGRA have closed this matter.

I am waiting to see what they come back to Michael and Dominique with. Until such time I am having a big problem biting my tongue. :mad:
 
I am waiting to see what they come back to Michael and Dominique with. Until such time I am having a big problem biting my tongue. :mad:

No offense intended but biting tongues and not speaking up has IMHO contributed to the mess.

Like yourself I never promoted GP. But we're both affiliates and believe we both, like most of our peers, expect a fair deal.

This eCOGRA investigation & audit (loose terms) flies directly in the face of what is fair and just.

No one can tell me for 1 minute that Microgaming did not play a substantial role in forcing eCOGRA to act on this.
But just because there was an investigation ordered, it does not mean the outcome/findings had to be fair.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 
No offense intended but biting tongues and not speaking up has IMHO contributed to the mess.

Oh don't get me wrong Dave. After Dominque and Michael receive their respective responses from Andrew, I will be definately having my say. Based on what he comes back with.

But to do so beforehand, would be premature.
 
Hi Christine,



The information you provided as well as the time taken to compile this information is much appreciated.



We have noted your concern raised as to the adequacy of the settlement amount recommended by the eCOGRA investigators.



We would like to emphasise that our mandate from Grand Prive was to review all records provided by the company in respect of the Grand Prive Affiliate Program software and related database. We were not requested to review any other affiliate program system or information, nor were we made aware of any other system or pertinent information.



We are confident that the settlement amounts have been correctly calculated based on our mandate and the affiliate and player data provided to us by Grand Prive at the time of the review. Regrettably we cannot legally perform any further investigation work into this matter unless mandated by Grand Prive management. Such a mandate has not to date been forthcoming.



Regards,



Sean



My response....

I have given proof that our marketing talents are worth a hell of a lot more then $7 bucks and this entire audit was a waste of everyone's time Grand Prive is nothing but a bunch of scum bag cheats and everyone on the web knows this expect eCogra! I hope that you seriously reconsider letting these thieves continue to carry that seal of approval you have given them! Do not send that money to me because I will end up owing a wire fee why not take that amount and have yourself a cup of coffee on behalf of Streak Gaming.


Yes they have done the audit on the request of Grand Prive and I am sorry but I find it hard to believe that they feel this audit was not a joke from the start up! Do they really think affiliates earned so little from Grand Prive over the years?
 
I've just sent Tex an email outlining my thoughts.

Edit: Received notice that Tex is on extended leave until April 1'st 2010.
Next port of call Andrew.
 
Last edited:
This is truly a real shocker. I say that because my interpretation is that eCOGRA were possibly misled on the Referspot issue (GP possibly didn't expect that affiliates like Dom would figure that one out, and they must have been surprised when eCOGRA presumably went back and interrogated them on it - that's speculation btw!).

If not Referspot, then it would appear that very relevant information was either by ommission or commission not made available to the investigators.

Hence, rubbish in and rubbish out to quote an old computer truth.

What other implication can one draw from the apparent refusal by GP to grant any further access to eCOGRA in order to finalise the investigation in a fair and conclusive manner?

Look at these three elements in what looks like a very carefully worded eCOGRA statement (there may be legal aspects behind the scenes here that force them to be cautious in what they can and cannot say upfront):

Quote "We were not requested to review any other affiliate program system or information, nor were we made aware of any other system or pertinent information." Unquote.

and

Quote: "Regrettably we cannot legally perform any further investigation work into this matter unless mandated by Grand Prive management." Unquote.

and

Quote: "Such a mandate has not to date been forthcoming." Unquote.

Why, at this stage in the dispute when a fair resolution could have been achieved, would GP now pull up the drawbridge and refuse to cooperate further?

Could it be that the exposure of the possibility of larger amounts owed to affiliates has scared GP management off? That seems to be one possible explanation.

Whatever it is, this is a very ill-advised move by GP imo that can only take their reputation to new lows, and at the same time alienate well-intentioned industry execs like Andrew Beveridge, who must be furious at being left out in the cold and unable to provide the fair conclusion for adversely affected affiliates he said was his objective.

GP must be battening down the hatches here, because they must know there sure as hell is going to be a storm.

What other options are there for affiliates prejudiced in the closure of the Grand Prive Affiliate Program? Has anyone among the affiliates impacted by this looked into the possibility of a class action against GP?
 
Well, eCOGRA can only audit what it can see.

But the whole thing is silly, really.

Andrew was nice enough to offer to call me to explain, but I figure I should wait and see what the general reaction is and if anyone comes up with any constructive, useable suggestions.

There is no way eCOGRA can make GP show them anything.

The stats are offline, GP isn't going to produce them, and everyone is up the creek without a paddle.

The original issue a few years back was that Referspot ceased to exist and was replaced by Grand Prive affiliates, a Microgaming driven database. There were numerous issues transferring players into the corresponding accounts, and I went to look at archived threads at CAP and saw posts by the affiliate manager at the time explaining that the statistics were not working yet because MICROGAMING was still working on the integration of the system.

So MICROGAMING has information on what happened and the size of the database containing Referspot legacy players. And quite possibly they have the details too.

So it is not only Grand Prive who failed to disclose accurate statistics to eCOGRA, it is also Microgaming.

In any case, this proves that GP considers itself above the law, and if nothing can be done about it, one can only wonder when another incident like this will occur. Apparently this industry does not feel it needs to conduct business in a law abiding fashion.

It also proves that Microgaming has no interest in assuring us that their licencees are acting ethically.

I must conclude that JTODD and APCW weekly were correct all along re. Grand Prive and Microgaming.

So, is it possible for affiliates to trust affiliate programs? Referspot never had any issues. And look how that ended.

It looks foolish anymore to give any considerable exposure to any particular program. The more players go to any one casino, the higher the risk of substantial losses.

So much for self policing of the industry.
 
We are clear the bad guys here are Grand Prive. Microgaming and eCogra should be livid at Grand Prive for dragging their reputations down.

Microgaming and eCogra needs to cut ties with Grand Prive for their continued despicable behavior. It would be the best move they could make.
 
Im pretty sure Microgaming cant just cut ties with GP. And dont think that they want that either as long as they get their money.

This isnt the first time an affiliate program has closed and wont be the last time either. And some of them have belonged to big companies, and have yet to hear about any succesful legal action against a closed affiliate program.

But these must have been a big slap in the face of affiliates who had lodged a complaint with eCogra. I at least would be even more pissed off.

Maybe one could say that affiliates lost the battle but won the war. I doubt that any other program would go the same route as Grand Prive. At least not if they want to prosper.
 
Grand Prive are the bad guys for sure but I still believe eCogra needs to pull their seals since it is clear and they have even they realize Grand Prive pulled a fast act on them.
 
My understanding is that there could be legal consequences which have to be carefully considered here.

Looking back over previous incidents I get the impression that from a legal aspect there has to be a distinction between what a company like GP does to retain its accreditation seals in an operational sense and its behaviour in dealings in other areas.

In other words there does not appear to be a 'one size fits all' rule that entitles the eCOGRA directors to arbitrarily pull an operator's seals for as yet unproved integrity-related offences...or for embarrassing the organisation that has accredited them.

The absence of such a general 'conduct unbecoming' rule and legally acceptable proof that it has been broken could be constraining eCOGRA from doing what the directors at this stage would possibly like very much to do - fire GP's ass.

The consequences of GP launching litigation against eCOGRA in such an event could be serious - we're talking about large companies here and the liability issue will be something that directors have to consider in doing their duty to the company.

The thought that GP is able to so thumb its nose at eCOGRA, presumably MGS and the affiliate industry in general and appear to get away with it is as abhorrent to me as it will be to most of the posters here and elsewhere, but legal caution seems to be a real consideration for the companies involved here.

How much more satisfying it would be to see both eCOGRA and MGS immediately pull the seals and software licence of a company that behaves like this!
 
Has anyone among the affiliates impacted by this looked into the possibility of a class action against GP?

Something like this would also server the purpose of sending a clear message to other aff programs entertaining the thought of going down the GP path.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 
What other options are there for affiliates prejudiced in the closure of the Grand Prive Affiliate Program? Has anyone among the affiliates impacted by this looked into the possibility of a class action against GP?
Today I've started thinking about this "class action" suit against Grand Prive & others, but is it something that can be done? If so then I'm all for it because as hard as I try I can't motivate myself to continue working under the present conditions.

My income has been impacted by this stuff and if they offered to "settle" with me via eCOGRA then they clearly feel that I'm owed something (as I'm a victim of thier actions), BUT I want a FAIR settlement or nothing at all!

Jetset how do we get started on this class action suit? I'm willing to give as much time as it takes to see this thru to the end one way or the other.
 
how do we get started on this class action suit?

What it would require is those affiliates who have a case against Grand Prive` (including yourself) would hire a solicitor to act on the behalf of everyone.

Of course that's the bare bones of it. Far more detail involved than that.

But I'm not a legal adviser and have never been involved in a class action.
Therefore it would be inappropriate for me to give any further information. What you need now as facts.

You may like to look up class action on Google.
But remember USA law may not be at play in the case. Hence I'd also consult UK & or EU law. These may also help answer your questions.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 
Hi Dave,

I've been doing research since this post and gathered the following to give to a local attorney as I'm going after them all! Grand Prive, Micrograming & eCOGRA as IMO they are all in this together. I will be contacting Class Action Attoneys in each of the above countries.

Here is the first site I found with great information. Class Action Suit -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



Denver Lawyers -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



==================

Microgaming - Isle of Man

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
)

===================

Grand Prive - (need location)

Has eCOGRA report posted on site under news.

===================

Casinomeister has them rogued

Grand Priv - Bad Casino Practice - Rogue

Software provider: Microgaming
Licensing Jurisdiction: Kahna-haha-wake
Mother Ship: GrandPrive.com
Associated websites:
Belle Vegas Online
Casino Grand Bay
Grand Bay Poker
Kasino Grand Bay
Lake Palace Casino
Jupiter Club Casino
Road House Reels Casino
Fortune Junction Casino
Jackpot Wheel Casino
Villa Fortuna Casino
Villa Fortuna Affiliates

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/grand-prive-bad-casino-practice/

=====================

Caruso has articles

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


=====================


eCOGRA Information

Address: eCOGRA Limited
2nd Floor
Berkeley Square House
Berkeley Square
London
W1J 6BD
United Kingdom

Email: info@ecogra.org

Company Registration Number: 4690117

VAT Registration Number: 830 8129 41
 
Today I've started thinking about this "class action" suit against Grand Prive & others, but is it something that can be done? If so then I'm all for it because as hard as I try I can't motivate myself to continue working under the present conditions.

My income has been impacted by this stuff and if they offered to "settle" with me via eCOGRA then they clearly feel that I'm owed something (as I'm a victim of thier actions), BUT I want a FAIR settlement or nothing at all!

Jetset how do we get started on this class action suit? I'm willing to give as much time as it takes to see this thru to the end one way or the other.

I'm no legal practitioner, but I would guess the first move would be to muster the necessary support from fellow affiliates impacted by the closure of the program, sharing your information on class actions, and then formulating a plan to engage with legal support, perhaps on a contingency 'no win - no pay' basis.
 
A class action suit may be too little too late. Besides, what webmaster would be willing to shell out the cash for legal representation when it's only a few hundred bucks that they are owed? I think after a couple of lawyer bills most would lose interest. A class action suit (IMO) should have been pursued in December 2008.

@ Gamtrak - I'm really surprised to see you joining this discussion here after your childish "Casino God" (me) rant over at GPWA. I don't take personal attacks lightly - especially after I have assisted you with your recent PAB (amongst other things). I feel that the GPWA is a better venue for your participation, not this forum.

@every else: it's pretty much clear to me that the operators of Grand Prive are the sole offenders in this unprecedented eff-up. I don't see how eCOGRA or MGS can be thrown into the same blame pit.

Affiliate marketing is just that - it's marketing. I know this won't sit well with a lot of webmasters but it's your own damn fault for promoting a casino group that has been in and out of the rogue pit for years. What did you expect? An honest deal? C'mon - quit your whining and move on.

As for eCOGRA giving webmasters the shaft - think again. It was eCOGRA that agreed to conduct this audit in the interest of getting aggrieved affiliates paid - they performed this audit as agreed by both parties (GP and eCOGRA) and on the surface, the "fair settlement for claimants" was IMO fair.

BUT - as it's been surmised - were they given all of the data? A number of you have it pretty much figured out, and by eCOGRA's recent statement - read between the lines. It's over. GP will not return to this issue.

These are uncharted waters and the landscape can change with each new issue. This is the first time eCOGRA has audited an affiliate program and I believe will be the last time they ever volunteer to stick their necks out for the affiliate folk. Just an observation.

eCOGRA is not your enemy. eCOGRA is primarily set up to deal with player issues. There has always been a debate about marketing issues vs player issues and how they are intertwined, but the bottom line is that eCOGRA was never set up for dealing with the marketing side of the picture. Only recently are they approving affiliate programs. I'm sure it would be a different situation altogether if Fortune Affiliates, Referback, or another eCOGRA accredited aff program attempted to do what GP did.

Further: MGS is taking this seriously. Lest we forget. It was reported that all GP affiliates who had active players and were earners were paid when the aff program was closed. Whether this is true or not - who knows? But was MGS required to check and double check this when no one presented them an official complaint? An official complaint is a written grievance presented to their corporate office; it's not complaining anonymously on a public message board (if the shoe fits, wear it). I'm just tossing that into the ring. Don't forget, this is not a player issue - it's marketing and probably would not get the same level of attention that a serious player complaint would get.

Affiliates that promote operations that are mismanaged, or have flaky operators should ask themselves this: why are these worthy of promotion? What did you expect?

You should have been promoting 32Red or Club World instead :D
 
....

The thought that GP is able to so thumb its nose at eCOGRA, presumably MGS and the affiliate industry in general and appear to get away with it is as abhorrent to me as it will be to most of the posters here and elsewhere, but legal caution seems to be a real consideration for the companies involved here.

How much more satisfying it would be to see both eCOGRA and MGS immediately pull the seals and software licence of a company that behaves like this!
Excellent points here.
 
Affiliate marketing is just that - it's marketing. I know this won't sit well with a lot of webmasters but it's your own damn fault for promoting a casino group that has been in and out of the rogue pit for years.

When I started out I had practically every casino banner and link I could lay my hands on listed on my site.
However back then I was naive and a dumb noobie. I soon got bitten (not paid my commissions) and thru this learnt a valuable lesson. Not all casinos are fair to players or affiliates.

My point is, if your intention is to promote every casino out there then be prepared to get shafted sometime by those that are less than honourable.

These days I promote only a handful of casino groups.
I get paid without drama and I can rest easy knowing my players are being treated fairly.

IMHO is that not the true and only foundation on which an affiliate should choose who they promote?

As a GPWA member I don't think there is a day that goes past where someone is not complaining about not being paid by x y z. However if these webmasters took the time to research the establishment before slapping them up on their sites, I dare say the number of players issues and non payments, including affiliate payments issues would be a lot less.

Reiterating I didn't promote Grand Prive` but I do feel empathy for my peers on being shafted. However if you choose to live by the sword then be prepared to die by the sword also. Maybe this will be seen as a good learning experience for some. Whilst I dare say others will continue to throw any old hack up because they care more for the $ than their site visitors.

As far as eCOGRA well most people know my views. However in retrospect, eCOGRA or any one else for that matter could only deliver its auditing findings based on what GP gave them.

I too was very skeptical of the eCOGRA report.
But, now that I've realised that GP did not provide all the info to eCOGRA then I can't blame them for not doing the audit correctly; I don't think anyone can.

Now Dominique and others have come forward with the Referspot information, and eCOGRA did not receive this from GP, it would not be fair or just to criticise eCOGRA for making a f#ck up on this audit. When it was only based on what GP gave them.

I suppose I'll have a few more people that don't like me after this post. But that's nothing new.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 
I suppose I'll have a few more people that don't like me after this post.

Welcome to the club! That's life on the forums: the large print blindeth and the small print can be a real burr up your arse.
 
I'm no legal practitioner, but I would guess the first move would be to muster the necessary support from fellow affiliates impacted by the closure of the program, sharing your information on class actions, and then formulating a plan to engage with legal support, perhaps on a contingency 'no win - no pay' basis.

Thanks jetset! :) That is where I will start today as well as contacting other industry 'leaders' for advise. Today I hope to get feedback from some lawyers that specialize in this area as well as business law since my corporation has been affected. There has to be someway to get attention to the matter and I'm confident that I can find a hungry attorney ready to work on these crooked a$$ folks asap.

I'm not gonna give up until I've exhausted all avenues regardless of how many toes gets stepped on. Someone has to try and do something other than talk about what CAN'T be done! :thumbsup:
 
Bryan, the issue dates back to the Referspot days - monies that continue to be owed are from player bases established years ago and still active. I don't think that these casinos were in the rogue pit back then, I don't recall complaints during the Referspot days. Maybe I am wrong, it has been years.

As far as Microgaming goes, they are the only people other than GP who KNOW about the volume of the Referspot legacy player issue, they were the ones who mapped players and affiliates over from Referspot to GP.

I would very much like to see Microgaming take an active interest here.

As far as eCOGRA goes, I totally agree.
 
EXACTLY! To bad folks don't get ALL the facts/details correct before they open thier pie hole! :D lol

Bryan, the issue dates back to the Referspot days - monies that continue to be owed are from player bases established years ago and still active. I don't think that these casinos were in the rogue pit back then, I don't recall complaints during the Referspot days. Maybe I am wrong, it has been years.

As far as Microgaming goes, they are the only people other than GP who KNOW about the volume of the Referspot legacy player issue, they were the ones who mapped players and affiliates over from Referspot to GP.

I would very much like to see Microgaming take an active interest here.

As far as eCOGRA goes, I totally agree.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Click here for Red Cherry Casino

Meister Ratings

Back
Top