Playzee dispute over $150,000

[Minxxx]

Always always read T&Cs I thought I was covered until i had $150,000 I won (fair an square) voided but still somehow was allowed to keep X amount OVER the threshold as a way for a casino to avoid paying my winnings they let me violate one of their own Tc & Cs and called it a day
(goodwill gesture) Still makes me sick every time I think of the situation

 

[Avernite]

Always always read T&Cs I thought I was covered until i had $150,000 I won (fair an square) voided but still somehow was allowed to keep X amount OVER the threshold as a way for a casino to avoid paying my winnings they let me violate one of their own Tc & Cs and called it a day
(goodwill gesture) Still makes me sick every time I think of the situation

Out of curiosity, which casino was this? Fellow NZer here.

 

[Minxxx]

Out of curiosity, which casino was this? Fellow NZer here.

Heyy fellow NZer
it was Playzee Casino.

 

[Minxxx]

So many things come to mind as a contributing factor in my dealings I had with them besides the actual dispute I had with there rulings. Like does the fact of comming from Newzealand come into play at all seeing as is far as I know we have no one who would back us totally as offshore online casinos aren't regulated in NZ could be another valid reason they chose to pull rank but who knows at the end of the day I've lost so much sleep over it going around and around in circles then I came across this thread. If there's such as a glimpse of hope I'd be wrapped but aside from that I've had to try and distance myself and accept the fact that such a grand sum of money would be nothing short of miracle.

 

[Avernite]

Hi are you allowed to share what country you are in at all by any chance. I'm wishful thinking and hoping this is a proceeding that can be done from NewZealand also

Heyy fellow NZer
it was Playzee Casino.

White hat gaming? I'm permanently banned from the group, but they should be fairly legit. Have you raised a PAB here?

 

[Minxxx]

How did you come to be permanently banned may I ask?
I'm surprised they haven't done the same with me to be honest.
Fairly Legit- they have been everything asides from that sadly.
Yes I started a PAB process but due to one of my actions my case got closed. It wasn't intentional by any means, but as a first time experience having to go down an investigation/complaints route I can say I messed up. Had I not done that I may of gotten somewhere it was very hard to not be filled with every emotion possible which got the best of me in the end. Some may say it's blatantly obvious why but I would consider the case to be a technicalities, I know exactly what they done and exactly how they went about it I know 100% that the way the casino acted was not in accordance with how things should be done. I'd say the situation is somewhat complex but in no way should it of resulted in the confiscation of My winnings. I'm prepared to fight if I can even if it's for the sake of the Tcs & Cs to get a revamp, to be transparent and straight forward, something, anything just so no one else falls victim to a predatory online casino such as them.

 

[Avernite]

How did you come to be permanently banned may I ask?
I'm surprised they haven't done the same with me to be honest.
Fairly Legit- they have been everything asides from that sadly.
Yes I started a PAB process but due to one of my actions my case got closed. It wasn't intentional by any means, but as a first time experience having to go down an investigation/complaints route I can say I messed up. Had I not done that I may of gotten somewhere it was very hard to not be filled with every emotion possible which got the best of me in the end. Some may say it's blatantly obvious why but I would consider the case to be a technicalities, I know exactly what they done and exactly how they went about it I know 100% that the way the casino acted was not in accordance with how things should be done. I'd say the situation is somewhat complex but in no way should it of resulted in the confiscation of My winnings. I'm prepared to fight if I can even if it's for the sake of the Tcs & Cs to get a revamp, to be transparent and straight forward, something, anything just so no one else falls victim to a predatory online casino such as them.

After I set a 5 year exclusion they applied the permanent ban citing bonus abuse, which is weird because I made plenty of non bonus deposits. Tried recently to reopen the account (over 5 years on) but to no avail.

Pity to hear about your PAB. Maybe ask if you can reopen it and just stay silent on the matter until it's resolved? If not, my sympathies.

 

[Minxxx]

Aw thank you I've been told sternly my case is and remains closed I'm not sure if my case would be an acception to the rules by any chance but at this stage I've got nothing to lose and would give anything to be able to start the process again $150,000 is a very valued lesson learnt at the least. If it was $1500 I probly wouldn't be so persistent. But cheers for reaching out

After I set a 5 year exclusion they applied the permanent ban citing bonus abuse, which is weird because I made plenty of non bonus deposits. Tried recently to reopen the account (over 5 years on) but to no avail.

Pity to hear about your PAB. Maybe ask if you can reopen it and just stay silent on the matter until it's resolved? If not, my sympathies.

 

[maxd]

... I've been told sternly my case is and remains closed ...

Just to be clear, both the casino's designated ADRs have had their go with your case and both have (effectively) ruled against you. As I believe I said to you in the PAB Ticket that puts your case beyond our reach because the casino has no reason to even respond to us, which I don't think they did.

As far as the casino is concerned they've followed the procedures required by their Malta license and you've exhausted the official channels, they're perfectly fine to leave it at that. We could only be of use to you here _if_ the casino was willing to re-open the case and discuss it further with us. As I've said that appears to not be the case.

- Max

 

[Minxxx]

Just to be clear, both the casino's designated ADRs have had their go with your case and both have (effectively) ruled against you. As I believe I said to you in the PAB Ticket that puts your case beyond our reach because the casino has no reason to even respond to us, which I don't think they did.

As far as the casino is concerned they've followed the procedures required by their Malta license and you've exhausted the official channels, they're perfectly fine to leave it at that. We could only be of use to you here _if_ the casino was willing to re-open the case and discuss it further with us. As I've said that appears to not be the case.

- Max

Who were both the ADRs you are referring too ? I understand eCOGRA was one. Was the POGG the other?

New information has now come to light there's a strong chance I obtained all my winnings with my own cash deposit however the complaint I've raised have said other wise..
it wasn't until I looked into this further I found the casino has actually deleted a section or my game play the part where I was playing and won the amount I did

Even though I've exhausted all the channels do i have any ground to stand on with submitting the complaint to be reinvestigated due to new evidence.

When I first pitched My complaint with the POGG I had no idea that I could of actually won off my own cash deposit they deemed I had no case off the info I gave them..
eCogra didn't even look into my complaint because the POGGs ruling was obviously good enough.. Am i allowed to do anything with this new information at all or will this all be irrelevant now that the official channels have been exhausted?

 

[maxd]

Who were both the ADRs you are referring too ? I understand eCOGRA was one. Was the POGG the other?

Yes, IIRC. As specified in the Terms:

Should you remain dissatisfied in relation to a dispute, you have the option to escalate the matter externally via one of our ADR providers, eCOGRA or The Pogg (each a “ADR Provider”).

You should recall that I told you all this while we were working on your PAB almost three weeks ago:

The bottom line as I see it is that at this point you've exhausted your options through the casino's official channels. eCOGRA and ThePogg are the two named ADR's in the casino Terms -- section "21.3 Complaints closure and referral" -- and they've both had your case and done whatever it is they're going to do. Normally your next and only remaining option would be to take it to court.

Not sure why any of this would be news to you now.

- Max

 

[Minxxx]

Yes, IIRC. As specified in the Terms.

- Max

What Is the IIRC ?

 

[maxd]

What Is the IIRC ?

Google is your friend (well, actually it's not but it does make short work of things like this):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

People use “IIRC” online, and it stands for “if I recall correctly” or “if I remember correctly.” Just as you would in person, you can use it to be polite, if you’re unsure about something, or sarcastically when you answer a question or correct others.

The former usage was intended, obv.

 

[maxd]

... Am i allowed to do anything with this new information at all or will this all be irrelevant now that the official channels have been exhausted?

Ah, missed this on the first pass.

I can only offer advice based on what I would hope a player would do if I had previously made a decision on your case: take your new info back to ThePogg, present it to them and explain the significance, and ask them to kindly re-open your case. What they choose to do at that point will largely determine what you can and/or should do afterwards.

I should add this though as it seems directly applicable to your case: I get that you are determined to explore every avenue available to get that money from the casino. The problem is that you have already botched your chances by ignoring the casino's Terms -- or so the evidence would indicate -- and "every available avenue" is rapidly turning into you clutching at whatever straw you can find, applicable or not, in order to press your forward with your wish to get that money. In doing so you are wasting a lot of people's time and are very much at risk of making a PITA of yourself simply because they have the cash and you want it.

My advice on this is be ABSOLUTELY certain that whatever new evidence you present is real and actionable because if you keep pulling out any old argument simply to keep the conversation going you'll soon find yourself facing a lot of closed doors that may not be openable again should you need them some time in the future. I get that you may not be totally up to speed on how these things work but from my point of view I've seen a lot of "convenient" mistakes being made and that can only go on for so long before you come to a short, sharp end to people's patience.

- Max

 

[Minxxx]

I

Ah, missed this on the first pass.

I can only offer advice based on what I would hope a player would do if I had previously made a decision on your case: take your new info back to ThePogg, present it to them and explain the significance, and ask them to kindly re-open your case. What they choose to do at that point will largely determine what you can and/or should do afterwards.

I should add this though as it seems directly applicable to your case: I get that you are determined to explore every avenue available to get that money from the casino. The problem is that you have already botched your chances by ignoring the casino's Terms -- or so the evidence would indicate -- and "every available avenue" is rapidly turning into you clutching at whatever straw you can find, applicable or not, in order to press your forward with your wish to get that money. In doing so you are wasting a lot of people's time and are very much at risk of making a PITA of yourself simply because they have the cash and you want it.

My advice on this is be ABSOLUTELY certain that whatever new evidence you present is real and actionable because if you keep pulling out any old argument simply to keep the conversation going you'll soon find yourself facing a lot of closed doors that may not be openable again should you need them some time in the future. I get that you may not be totally up to speed on how these things work but from my point of view I've seen a lot of "convenient" mistakes being made and that can only go on for so long before you come to a short, sharp end to people's patience.

- Max

I have commented back to the pogg and asked If this is able to. Be re investigated due to the fact that new compelling evidence has come to light about the casinos actions deleting my game play and the strong likelihood of me winning those funds on my own merit. I'm not sure if I done it the correct way or not by commenting on the original complaint page or if I am supposed to submit a new complaint to the pOGG, so far I'm still waiting for a reply from about 3 days ago

 

[Minxxx]

I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.

Ah, missed this on the first pass.

I can only offer advice based on what I would hope a player would do if I had previously made a decision on your case: take your new info back to ThePogg, present it to them and explain the significance, and ask them to kindly re-open your case. What they choose to do at that point will largely determine what you can and/or should do afterwards.

I should add this though as it seems directly applicable to your case: I get that you are determined to explore every avenue available to get that money from the casino. The problem is that you have already botched your chances by ignoring the casino's Terms -- or so the evidence would indicate -- and "every available avenue" is rapidly turning into you clutching at whatever straw you can find, applicable or not, in order to press your forward with your wish to get that money. In doing so you are wasting a lot of people's time and are very much at risk of making a PITA of yourself simply because they have the cash and you want it.

My advice on this is be ABSOLUTELY certain that whatever new evidence you present is real and actionable because if you keep pulling out any old argument simply to keep the conversation going you'll soon find yourself facing a lot of closed doors that may not be openable again should you need them some time in the future. I get that you may not be totally up to speed on how these things work but from my point of view I've seen a lot of "convenient" mistakes being made and that can only go on for so long before you come to a short, sharp end to people's patience.

- Max

ha

 

[Minxxx]

I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.View attachment 183957View attachment 183958

ha

I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.View attachment 183957View attachment 183958

Would it be best to just file a new complaint with the new evidence...for now the screenshots are all I have made contact with the casino for my full gaming history which they said could take upto a month to get to me

 

[Minxxx]

I have screenshots from inside the pragmatic play game that I won on indicating The time and date I played and won and a screenshot of the game play history available to me from the exact same date with the message saying that "the game play history for that day is not available" furthermore I've requested a full break down of my history from playzee casino who are telling me it can take upto a month for me to be In receipt of this information I'm needing. Unsure if what I've got now is suffient enough.View attachment 183957View attachment 183958

ha

I now have my full gameplay history from playzee casino but I have no idea how to interpret it all as it's in Excell and I'm limited to how much I can see at once from my mobile
. Am I potentially allowed to open another PAB for this.

 

[maxd]

... Am I potentially allowed to open another PAB for this.

What result do you have from ThePogg regarding re-opening your case? As I've said before, anything that happens now will depend on that.

And, also as I've said before, ignoring today the advice I've given you yesterday (or sometime recently) is absolutely not the way to proceed with a respectful and considerate relationship. Sooner or later that is going to result in doors being shut with slim chance of them being re-opened. This is the last time I will warn you about this.

- Max

 

[Minxxx]

I can copy and paste the response or you maybe able to view it from the site it wasn't really much of a reply to my initial request of asking if the case could be re opened on the basis of having new evidence.

I definitely need to have it gone over however as I can't see a great deal in the microsoft Excel format it's been sent to me in since I'm on my phone

 

[Minxxx]

Bonus terms and conditions apply to all wagers from the point that the bonus is added to your account until the point that you have completed the wagering requirement. Whether the wagers in question were placed with deposited funds or bonus funds is non-relevant.

Sorry we cannot be of further help.

ThePOGG.

Is the reply I got but I was trying to explain it might not be won from any bonus being added given the deposits I had made through out the gaming session.
So I'm not sure what I can do now.

 

[maxd]

So, the casino's designated ADR has confirmed that whatever argument you have recently presented their decision on your case in unchanged: the ruling against you stands as is. Per the Terms of the Maltese license the casino can, and almost certainly will, consider that as "case closed", again.

Insofar as Casinomeister is concerned we can have no meaningful role in this on your behalf unless the casino agrees to discuss your case with us. Do you understand and accept that? Yes or no?

- Max

 

[Minxxx]

I understand and accept.

 

[maxd]

Very well. The next -- and possibly only -- step if we are to be of any help to you is for me to ask the casino if they will re-open your case and discuss it with us in sufficient detail for us to reach an independent conclusion.

If the casino says "yes" then we will re-open your PAB and proceed.
If they say "no", or give no reply at all, then that's "game over" in terms of us being able to help you. This would be the end of the road for us and our involvement with this particular complaint. This means "case closed": no re-do's, no "but I found this", no nothing. Fini.

Do you understand and accept all that?

- Max

 

[Minxxx]

I appreciate that so much. Thankyou
. Is there any chance of needing the game play/history log I recieved from the casino ? If so I can send that through if it would help