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BetOnline's BJ Games Are Blatantly Rigged
- Thread starter sconifer
- Start date
-
- Tags
- betonline review
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Sorry, you'll have to take the time to write what they said in your own words. Try paraphrasing.
We don't allow copyrighted material to be posted here without explicit permission. Thanks!
As per the rules which I am sure you've read. Right?
Forum Rules
I don't know what you're banging on about, buddy. I didn't quote anyone but myself. I didn't include BOL's phony, semi-grammatical, quasi-automated reply to my review on Trustpilot. Copyrighted material? From my OWN REVIEW on Trustpilot? LMAO!!!
So, let's try this again:
Alas, the story doesn't end there. Being the fool that I am, and a bit of a degenerate, I decided to try my hand at their BetSoft blackjack games. I lost over $12k in about 12 hours (a loss, therefore, of roughly $1k/hour), betting an average of maybe $25-30/hand. This is almost statistically impossible in a fair and honest game, to wit, approximately seven (7!!!) standard deviations outside what chance alone would predict.
I kept careful track of the tens of thousands of hands I played, not just during the aforementioned catastrophic session, but for months beforehand. (I even took screenshots of hundreds of the more conspicuously unlikely hands, as photographic evidence to be used in potential future litigation.)
Here are some concrete examples proving beyond any reasonable doubt that BOL's BetSoft blackjack games are rigged:
1. The dealer averages about one blackjack per 10 hands. (He'll go in spurts where he gets maybe four or five in the space of nine hands, which is utterly absurd and nothing I've ever experienced in a brick-and-mortar casino, but obviously it's the long-term trend that's statistically significant.) In a fair and honest game, the ratio would be closer to 1 in 20 (4.73%) - not even quite half what we witness in BOL's BetSoft games.
2. Stunningly, the dealer shows a face card as his "up-card" approx 65%(!!!) of the time, when of course the actual figure should be about 38.5% (5/13). This, of course, essentially forces the player to hit countless hands he might otherwise stand on. Not coincidentally, I'm sure, most of those hands tend to be 12-16.
3. In conjunction with #2, above: of all the hands where the dealer shows a face card as his up-card, not including aces, he turns over a face card a whopping 58% of the time! This is almost twice what the percentage would be in a fair game, i.e., approx 31% (or 4/13)
4. The dealer achieves a total of 21 in 14.3%(!!!) of all hands. This is roughly double what the figure would be in a fair, honest, non-rigged game: approx 7.4%.
5. As mentioned above, regardless of the # of hands played, the player receives an inordinate number of "stiffs," i.e., hands initially totaling between 12-16. Stiffs account for roughly 55% of all player hands, when the actual figure should be closer to 33%.
6. While I certainly won some large ($100-200) bets here and there along the way, there was a striking, unmistakable correlation between bet size and outcome. After applying the relevant formula, I found that the player is about 19.4% more likely to lose a bet of $50 or more than he is a bet of $10 or less (all things being equal).
7. Perhaps most blatant of all, while a 12 should bust on the first card drawn in just under 33% (4/13) of cases, on BOL's rigged BetSoft games, a player's 12 will bust on the first card drawn a STAGGERING 73.2%(!!!!!!) of the time. It's as if the algorithm the software runs on had a sort of hiccup whereby it just can't help itself from laying a brick on almost every player 12.
All in all, I noticed that, for brief stretches, it was almost as if the dealer were programmed to bust on any two cards, and to deal the player a decent string of 20s and blackjacks. This would last just long enough for the player to feasibly double his or her money. Problem is, once this "spell" wore off, the dealer would start winning about 6/7 hands, mostly with 21s and blackjacks. This "boss mode," as I came to dub it, would last for a good 50-100 hands, thereby not only erasing all of the player's winnings, but almost certainly wiping out his initial bankroll as well.
And this happened session... after session... after session... after session... after session. Again, across the span of several months and over 25k hands. KEY POINT: That is *more* than enough hands to constitute a statistically significant sample, i.e., one from which meaningful data, like #1-7 above, can be derived.
Conclusion? I am reasonably certain, to a 95% degree of confidence, that BOL's BetSoft bj games are rigged.
If others have had similar experiences, please let me know in the comments below and perhaps we can communicate off-site, with an eye toward a class-action lawsuit. (BOL may think it's immune to lawsuits by U.S. players because it's based in Panama, but in fact, under the "minimum contacts" standard set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in INTERNATIONAL SHOE CO. v. WASHINGTON, any concern doing business, physically or virtually, within the boundaries of a given jurisdiction thereby subjects itself to the laws and regs thereof. SOURCE: I'm an attorney.
So, let's try this again:
RIGGED BJ SOFTWARE!!! BEWARE!!!
Their poker client is great, with lots of traffic, and the crypto payouts are truly lightning fast (usu 30 mins or less). In addition, their customer service tends to be very responsive, friendly, and helpful. In THOSE respects, I'd give BOL an enthusiastic five stars.Alas, the story doesn't end there. Being the fool that I am, and a bit of a degenerate, I decided to try my hand at their BetSoft blackjack games. I lost over $12k in about 12 hours (a loss, therefore, of roughly $1k/hour), betting an average of maybe $25-30/hand. This is almost statistically impossible in a fair and honest game, to wit, approximately seven (7!!!) standard deviations outside what chance alone would predict.
I kept careful track of the tens of thousands of hands I played, not just during the aforementioned catastrophic session, but for months beforehand. (I even took screenshots of hundreds of the more conspicuously unlikely hands, as photographic evidence to be used in potential future litigation.)
Here are some concrete examples proving beyond any reasonable doubt that BOL's BetSoft blackjack games are rigged:
1. The dealer averages about one blackjack per 10 hands. (He'll go in spurts where he gets maybe four or five in the space of nine hands, which is utterly absurd and nothing I've ever experienced in a brick-and-mortar casino, but obviously it's the long-term trend that's statistically significant.) In a fair and honest game, the ratio would be closer to 1 in 20 (4.73%) - not even quite half what we witness in BOL's BetSoft games.
2. Stunningly, the dealer shows a face card as his "up-card" approx 65%(!!!) of the time, when of course the actual figure should be about 38.5% (5/13). This, of course, essentially forces the player to hit countless hands he might otherwise stand on. Not coincidentally, I'm sure, most of those hands tend to be 12-16.
3. In conjunction with #2, above: of all the hands where the dealer shows a face card as his up-card, not including aces, he turns over a face card a whopping 58% of the time! This is almost twice what the percentage would be in a fair game, i.e., approx 31% (or 4/13)
4. The dealer achieves a total of 21 in 14.3%(!!!) of all hands. This is roughly double what the figure would be in a fair, honest, non-rigged game: approx 7.4%.
5. As mentioned above, regardless of the # of hands played, the player receives an inordinate number of "stiffs," i.e., hands initially totaling between 12-16. Stiffs account for roughly 55% of all player hands, when the actual figure should be closer to 33%.
6. While I certainly won some large ($100-200) bets here and there along the way, there was a striking, unmistakable correlation between bet size and outcome. After applying the relevant formula, I found that the player is about 19.4% more likely to lose a bet of $50 or more than he is a bet of $10 or less (all things being equal).
7. Perhaps most blatant of all, while a 12 should bust on the first card drawn in just under 33% (4/13) of cases, on BOL's rigged BetSoft games, a player's 12 will bust on the first card drawn a STAGGERING 73.2%(!!!!!!) of the time. It's as if the algorithm the software runs on had a sort of hiccup whereby it just can't help itself from laying a brick on almost every player 12.
All in all, I noticed that, for brief stretches, it was almost as if the dealer were programmed to bust on any two cards, and to deal the player a decent string of 20s and blackjacks. This would last just long enough for the player to feasibly double his or her money. Problem is, once this "spell" wore off, the dealer would start winning about 6/7 hands, mostly with 21s and blackjacks. This "boss mode," as I came to dub it, would last for a good 50-100 hands, thereby not only erasing all of the player's winnings, but almost certainly wiping out his initial bankroll as well.
And this happened session... after session... after session... after session... after session. Again, across the span of several months and over 25k hands. KEY POINT: That is *more* than enough hands to constitute a statistically significant sample, i.e., one from which meaningful data, like #1-7 above, can be derived.
Conclusion? I am reasonably certain, to a 95% degree of confidence, that BOL's BetSoft bj games are rigged.
If others have had similar experiences, please let me know in the comments below and perhaps we can communicate off-site, with an eye toward a class-action lawsuit. (BOL may think it's immune to lawsuits by U.S. players because it's based in Panama, but in fact, under the "minimum contacts" standard set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in INTERNATIONAL SHOE CO. v. WASHINGTON, any concern doing business, physically or virtually, within the boundaries of a given jurisdiction thereby subjects itself to the laws and regs thereof. SOURCE: I'm an attorney.
Note, furthermore, that I could have simply omitted any reference to TP and posted the review in its entirety. If need be, I'll retype the entire thing here in this window, or spend two hours tediously revising it until the particular combination of words is sufficiently different to satisfy your arbitrary sense of propriety. Which works better for you?
I've just been cheated out of $23,448 and this dude wants to throw up nonsensical barriers to the infinitesimally dim ray of hope I might have of procuring some minuscule sliver of relief. Wow...
I've just been cheated out of $23,448 and this dude wants to throw up nonsensical barriers to the infinitesimally dim ray of hope I might have of procuring some minuscule sliver of relief. Wow...
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2017
- Location
- UK / Switzerland
You've certainly come to the right place if you want this issue to be scrutinized in a fair and transparent way by knowledgeable people. I can see you're obviously pissed off about what has happened but if you want members' help and advice I would suggest you go back to your second and third posts and retone them slightly, or you're not going to endear yourself to anyone on here and you'll get absolutely nowhere.
People on here are more than willing to give up their time for nothing to help others with their problems, so if you want to get that far try editing your replies a bit - I'm sure it was an honest mistake regarding the TP review; Casinomeister (site owner) must have read it quickly and thought you were quoting someone else's material rather than your own, and didn't want to be dropped in it... a simple misunderstanding.
Welcome to the site and good luck with this issue if you manage to get it investigated
I love a game of BJ myself and if the sessions you describe above happened to me I would also be suspicious. 25k hands is plenty. I assume you were playing basic strategy?
People on here are more than willing to give up their time for nothing to help others with their problems, so if you want to get that far try editing your replies a bit - I'm sure it was an honest mistake regarding the TP review; Casinomeister (site owner) must have read it quickly and thought you were quoting someone else's material rather than your own, and didn't want to be dropped in it... a simple misunderstanding.
Welcome to the site and good luck with this issue if you manage to get it investigated
I love a game of BJ myself and if the sessions you describe above happened to me I would also be suspicious. 25k hands is plenty. I assume you were playing basic strategy?
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I do apologize for my tone. I'm still in a state of shock, rage, and disbelief, as much at myself as at BOL.
Yes, I've played flawless basic strategy since I was a teenager. I know the game of blackjack as well as I know my own name, and though a lawyer by trade, I got an A in Stats in college and am quite knowledgeable vis-a-vis probability theory (thanks largely to my love of gambling) and am quite capable of running the requisite calculations to derive standard deviations and the like. I routinely count cards and do quite well at brick-and-mortar casinos that offer shoes with decent penetration (rarer and rarer these days, alas).
Truth is, 25k is a low estimate. I may well have played closer to 30-35k hands. Furthermore, my brother played on BOL years ago, also plays perfect basic strategy, and sent me a sample of about 10k hands *he* played on there (he kept a log, is as meticulous as I, though alas didn't warn me about BOL until it was too late). So we're actually talking about a sample of anywhere from 40-45k hands. And the same patterns emerge again and again throughout that entire sample.
Any ideas on what we, as a community, might do about this, not only to get ME some satisfaction but also to assist other aggrieved bj players (on BOL) and, if at all possible, prevent others from being victimized similarly going forward?
Yes, I've played flawless basic strategy since I was a teenager. I know the game of blackjack as well as I know my own name, and though a lawyer by trade, I got an A in Stats in college and am quite knowledgeable vis-a-vis probability theory (thanks largely to my love of gambling) and am quite capable of running the requisite calculations to derive standard deviations and the like. I routinely count cards and do quite well at brick-and-mortar casinos that offer shoes with decent penetration (rarer and rarer these days, alas).
Truth is, 25k is a low estimate. I may well have played closer to 30-35k hands. Furthermore, my brother played on BOL years ago, also plays perfect basic strategy, and sent me a sample of about 10k hands *he* played on there (he kept a log, is as meticulous as I, though alas didn't warn me about BOL until it was too late). So we're actually talking about a sample of anywhere from 40-45k hands. And the same patterns emerge again and again throughout that entire sample.
Any ideas on what we, as a community, might do about this, not only to get ME some satisfaction but also to assist other aggrieved bj players (on BOL) and, if at all possible, prevent others from being victimized similarly going forward?
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
- Location
- Saltirelandia
Check the Terms at TrustPilot and you'll see this:
TP tends to be very aggressive in their pursuit of anyone whom they feel is in violation of this.
So technically what @Casinomeister said is true, they could well accuse us of using material from their site (because we allowed you to publish it here), although he may have in err regarding the original author.
- Max
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40-45k hands played in blackjack is a solid sample for statistical analysis. Assuming that the statistics you mentioned in your post are true (backed up with tracks/logs), it is indeed an abnormal sample. What is your overall rRTP on that sample? Which version of the Betsoft BJ you have played?
Betsoft had some questionable incidents in the past, including rigged keno games, "locked jackpots", unpaid jackpot, and license suspension from Alderney.
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- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
#1 - I am NOT your buddy.
#2 - I am the owner and administrator of this forum - and I do my best to ensure our members abide by our rules, many of which are here to protect our site from agro litigious people or entities.
You are not being singled out or picked on. The majority of our members understand and respect our forum rules. Those who don't are reminded on what these rules are all about. You agreed to them when signing up - so I would have expected you to have read them and respect them.
donttrust-bo
Newbie member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2023
- Location
- Los Angeles
i agree. after winning large amount never again have I won. it is like they flagged my account. also anytime I bet the remaining stack the dealer will get a BJ or 21 out of magic. I've seen it happen last 10 sessions. unbelievable. really rigged, you feel it. it like not even fair anymore. i quit for good.
dealer wins
Meister Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2006
- Location
- London the sh$thole
If thats the same software that paddypower uses (or rather they used about 7 years ago) then I could well believe this. I recognise the graphics and card design lol
I had some impossibly bad sessions back then that IMO were 100% rigged, and in exactly the way the OP is describing.
I had some impossibly bad sessions back then that IMO were 100% rigged, and in exactly the way the OP is describing.
donttrust-bo
Newbie member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2023
- Location
- Los Angeles
it doesn't matter how old the post is betonline still not fair in terms of dealing out cards. dealer will have a face card most of the time or when dealer doesn't have one, they will draw a low card to be in 17-21 but your hand will be under 17 or bust majority of the time. like someone stated they flag your account, and they do! people speak up if you're out there and play betonline and have same experience!
MapleSYrup
Registered
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2024
- Location
- Ontario
It's absolutely ridiculous, They Reality is, it will let you win for a while after you Deposit, and then it will infinitely take it all back.
donttrust-bo
Newbie member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2023
- Location
- Los Angeles
agreed @MapleSYrup !
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