beravek7 VS Fortune room

[skiny]

Looks like Fortune Lounge made the correct decision then, 1500 euro's is a fair chunk of change to lose out on if you have a valid complaint.

I think the business regarding the Irregular Play term should be discussed in another thread. I'm now on the fence with that and can see both sides of the argument but at the end of the day Fortune Lounge can include any term they want and the player has the choice of whether to accept it or not. I'm not so sure it is a vague term having thought about it, the word substantial is pretty clear to me and their intention in including it is as well. It's all subjective I guess

Not if they want to be in the accredited list. They have to follow rules like everyone else.

Unless Bryan is going to add "unless they are bonus terms" to the rule regarding vague terms.

 

[Beravek7]

I've received an official warning from Casinomeister. Isn't it strange? I come here with all the details about casino taking my money,the casino is silent and I am the one who is punished with warning. After this what should I expect from pitch a bitch? I've read several other threads here involving Fortune Lounge casinos. Look at that thread about woman from Portugal several months ago, for example. It looks these casinos are the "sacred cows" of this website.
Anyway I will make PAB but I don't believe it will receive a fair treatment. Call me a pessimist but I base this claim solely on the facts.

 

[chuchu59]

I've received an official warning from Casinomeister. Isn't it strange? I come here with all the details about casino taking my money,the casino is silent and I am the one who is punished with warning. After this what should I expect from pitch a bitch? I've read several other threads here involving Fortune Lounge casinos. Look at that thread about woman from Portugal several months ago, for example. It looks these casinos are the "sacred cows" of this website.
Anyway I will make PAB but I don't believe it will receive a fair treatment. Call me a pessimist but I base this claim solely on the facts.

So what was the warning for? The casinomeister does not issue warnings without a valid reason. The casinos are not the 'sacred cows' as you say. Don't make it seem you are the 'sacrificial lamb'. You refused to Pitch a Bitch which is the recourse for aggrieved players and now you claim you have shown us the facts and want us to believe you. You are, in my personal view, having something to hide. Many others have used the PAB service and gotten back their rightful winnings, amounts which are much more than your 1500 Euros. You just claim you are the victim but wont give the PAB service a chance. Get lost you fake.

 

[KasinoKing]

Anyway I will make PAB but I don't believe it will receive a fair treatment. Call me a pessimist but I base this claim solely on the facts.

CasinoMeister has been sorting out player problems for over 15 years - and he is the best there is at it.
You WILL get fair treatment - but so will the casino. He doesn't "take sides".

Personally I think you have a valid complaint, and I hope the PAB goes in your favour.
(As long as there not some "dodgy" goings on you haven't disclosed).

KK

 

[Casinomeister]

I've received an official warning from Casinomeister. Isn't it strange? I come here with all the details about casino taking my money,the casino is silent and I am the one who is punished with warning. After this what should I expect from pitch a bitch? I've read several other threads here involving Fortune Lounge casinos. Look at that thread about woman from Portugal several months ago, for example. It looks these casinos are the "sacred cows" of this website.
Anyway I will make PAB but I don't believe it will receive a fair treatment. Call me a pessimist but I base this claim solely on the facts.

For the record, here was your official warning (infraction):

Hi Beravek7,

You have been asked several times to submit a formal complaint concerning your complaint. Failure to follow administrative requests is against our policies.

Sincerely,

Bryan

I've PMd you no less than twice, and have asked you publicly three or more times. These are administrative requests - these are not options. As a member, you do not have the liberty to ignore requests from moderators or the administrator (me). Failure to obey our requests will affect your account in a negative way.

Now you've taken the "troll" route - attacks ad hominem - lowering yourself to slinging around insults. I've been relatively courteous, and will ignore your last little tantrum. But I'm drawing the line here; either you submit a PAB or take a hike.

 

[dunover]

I've received an official warning from Casinomeister. Isn't it strange? I come here with all the details about casino taking my money,the casino is silent and I am the one who is punished with warning. After this what should I expect from pitch a bitch? I've read several other threads here involving Fortune Lounge casinos. Look at that thread about woman from Portugal several months ago, for example. It looks these casinos are the "sacred cows" of this website.
Anyway I will make PAB but I don't believe it will receive a fair treatment. Call me a pessimist but I base this claim solely on the facts.

Do you expect that simply by posting an uncorroborated whinge on here that suddenly the casino will accede to your demand to be paid?? Or do you think that merely by accepting your story at face value, that we will all be marching to Fortune Lounge with the torches and pitchforks?
Several members here have taken the time to answer your post whether they support you or not. Unfortunately we the members are not instrumental to your complaint.
You need to PAB - the process is fair, it is done behind the scenes and information is provided to Max in confidence by both parties - the only risk is that if you are found to be misleading the PAB or hiding information the result (but NO personal details or confidential information) will posted for us all to see and you will be banned.
The PAB process in the last year (if I remember correctly) has resulted in over 70 players WINNING their PAB and being paid, and has also exposed many fraudsters and liars.
If you are confident in the integrity of your complaint for pity's sake PAB and stop posting here because the thread has just about been exhausted now. Otherwise I think Bryan will probably close it as a waste of bandwidth.....

 

[paul7388]

Think this is about the first time in this thread I agree with everything dunover just posted , my reply is 107th in a long list in a debate that is going absolutely nowhere , remember ive posted that if you are telling the truth I feel casinos out of order but until you actually PAB then my opinions a waste of time like everyone elses , if indeed they took so much money of you then you know how to get it back and if you are speaking the truth then please just PAB as surely you want the money ????? , you do realise that fact you are not submitting a PAB is making anyone that felt you have a case now change their minds and believe you are yet another chancer and troublemaker. Its your call .

 

[octav]

I've received an official warning from Casinomeister. Isn't it strange? I come here with all the details about casino taking my money,the casino is silent and I am the one who is punished with warning. After this what should I expect from pitch a bitch? I've read several other threads here involving Fortune Lounge casinos. Look at that thread about woman from Portugal several months ago, for example. It looks these casinos are the "sacred cows" of this website.
Anyway I will make PAB but I don't believe it will receive a fair treatment. Call me a pessimist but I base this claim solely on the facts.

Bravek7 be smart and follow your interests. I suggest you to keep your calm and follow the procedure.

The casino representative has nothing to say on this topic ?

 

[dunover]

Bravek7 be smart and follow your interests. I suggest you to keep your calm and follow the procedure.

The casino representative has nothing to say on this topic ?

Why should he? At the moment we have an unsubstantiated allegation, and the rep. is only obliged to reply privately to the OP via PM or a PAB, which as of yet has not been initiated unless we hear otherwise. He may also be party to information which he cannot post in public.
THAT IS WHY THE PAB NEEDS ACTIONING BY THE OP FOR PITY'S SAKE!!

 

[octav]

Why should he?

Because public relations (PR) are very important to mantain a good image of a large company and the confiscated amounts will not cover the deficit caused by a bad image.

It is their interest to be here.

 

[dunover]

Because public relations (PR) are very important to mantain a good image of a large company and the confiscated amounts will not cover the deficit caused by a bad image.

It is their interest to be here.

How do you know? That statement must be based on the opinion the OP deserves to be paid or that he is entirely innocent. We don't know if that's the case as of yet. CM members that have played FL know they don't have a bad image anyway.
As for the first part of your post "the amounts won't cover the deficit caused by a bad image" - so you think that the forum can be used as a tool so that simply by posting, every fraudster/AP/rule breaker can blackmail with 'bad publicity' the casino into paying them?

Not how it works my friend.

 

[skiny]

Because public relations (PR) are very important to mantain a good image of a large company and the confiscated amounts will not cover the deficit caused by a bad image.

It is their interest to be here.

And you think publicly arguing with a player about whether or not he should be paid would be better? Maybe the casino is in the wrong. Who knows? But the OP knows the route to take if he wants help and the longer he refuses to take it the more it looks like they're not.

The casino has already made their decision. The decision was already given to the player with their explanation. How helpful do you think it would be for a casino rep to jump in the middle of a thread with 185 people debating this decision only to repeat it ad nauseam. The posts in this thread are not going to change it. The rep is not going to change it. This has to be done in private and it appears the OP has no desire to start that process.

We have discussed this casino group's T&Cs before and the fairness of these terms are still open to debate. But the casino is in the accredited list and this forum has specific procedures that need to be followed when disputing a decision made by an accredited casino. Arguing with the rep in public is not part of those procedures.

If the OP feels he made an honest effort to stay within the casino's vague terms and it is simply the casino's opinion that he has not then he has a strong case and could well get his money, deposit and winnings. But the chances of that happening are rapidly coming to a close and this thread will soon become old and tiresome and when this thread dies the painful death these threads usually do his chances of getting paid will die with it.

If the OP wants to get paid he has to start the PAB process. As for the casino's T&Cs, that's an entirely different story. Maybe it's time someone defined the word "vague" so we can stop debating what constitutes a vague term and using our opinions to decide what we feel adheres to the accredited list's rules and regulations.

In regards to wagering a vague term is a term that does not specifically declare a maximum bet, a range between maximum and minimum bets or a specific list of games allowed.

 

[octav]

CM members that have played FL know they don't have a bad image anyway.

I don't want to comment on this subject.

so you think that the forum can be used as a tool so that simply by posting, every fraudster/**/rule breaker can blackmail with 'bad publicity' the casino into paying them?

I see a very big mistake, you put in the same category an advantage player with a fraudster. Try to make a difference between these notions.

Regarding your question I think that a horde of fustrated rule breakers or fraudsters (by the way is a very strange terminology) can affect the image of a casino.

Hypothetically speaking a new player wants to open a new account at FL, but before doing this he makes some searches and see that are a lot of topics about possble problems with this group, do you think that he stay to read many pages to see if FL took the right decision or not ?

I think that casinos can avoid this type of events using a cheap tool named communication.

 

[skiny]

Hypothetically speaking a new player wants to open a new account at FL, but before doing this he makes some searches and see that are a lot of topics about possble problems with this group, do you think that he stay to read many pages to see if FL took the right decision or not ?

These are the people who read the first 2 paragraphs of a Wikipedia page and then write an essay.

If people are going to accept the first few pages they come across in a Google search as the gospel truth, having a rep join in this conversation isn't really going to change much.

If people want to benefit from any information found online, first they have to decide if they trust the information and it's source. That requires researching other sources and researching the sources themselves.

If I believed the first few pages that I found in a Google search, I would believe that the Earth was 6000 years old, Elvis was still alive and Hillary Clinton was a lizard woman. Obviously most of these things are simply not true.

 

[octav]

If people want to benefit from any information found online, first they have to decide if they trust the information and it's source. That requires researching other sources and researching the sources themselves.

I only see a AP doing this type of researching. Judging a gambler profile he is a very impulsive person and I don't think that he have the patience to make to much effort. I think that at the subconscious level a gambler can easily associate that is not good to play at one casino just seeing a large number of topics where are discussed problems with that casino. For him is a common sense decision to try his luck in other places.

If I believed the first few pages that I found in a Google search, I would believe that the Earth was 6000 years old, Elvis was still alive and Hillary Clinton was a lizard woman. Obviously most of these things are simply not true.

This example....

 

[skiny]

I only see a AP doing this type of researching. Judging a gambler profile he is a very impulsive person and I don't think that he have the patience to make to much effort. I think that at the subconscious level a gambler can easily associate that is not good to play at one casino just seeing a large number of topics where are discussed problems with that casino. For him is a common sense decision to try his luck in other places.




This example....

Well, if the advantage player is doing this kind of research, all he's going to find out from this thread is that the OP hasn't been paid. Now he knows.

As for the average player, doing a few quick searches might find stories about a casino that hasn't been paid by this casino because a player broke the terms and conditions of a bonus. If a player is unwilling to join a casino because the casino doesn't allow people to break the terms and conditions, the casino probably doesn't want that player's business anyway.

The only bad PR the casino will get from this will be toward people who follow the accredited list as a standard for casinos they are willing to play at but disagree that this casino's terms meet those accredited standards.

Nothing anyone says here will help players who roam around the internet believing everything they read.

 

[octav]

Well, if the advantage player is doing this kind of research, all he's going to find out from this thread is that the OP hasn't been paid. Now he knows.

Is the second time on this topic when a person consider that advantage players are some bad elements which must not be paid. I belive that as long an AP respect the casino terms he must be paid. Casinos have on their side T&C and software bets limitations (seen only at RedFlush Grup and Vegas Partner Lounge) and enough tools to protect themselves without making abuse. Even if they abuse an AP is still an abuse and in my opinion a reliable company must to have a perfect image.

An advantage player will not risk breaching the T&C because he will know that the casino will not pay his possible winnings. I also consider that a lot of casinos have unclear terms and even a gambler can be punishable and in this way you have a confusing mix of complaints for which Max have to work very hard

Nothing anyone says here will help players who roam around the internet believing everything they read.

I am partially agree with you. In the same time I belive that a potential customer can be influenced by what he see here even if he see only a topic name or an increased frequency of possbile issues.

 

[skiny]

Is the second time on this topic when a person consider that advantage players are some bad elements which must not be paid. I belive that as long an AP respect the casino terms he must be paid. Casinos have on their side T&C and software bets limitations (seen only at RedFlush Grup and Vegas Partner Lounge) and enough tools to protect themselves without making abuse. Even if they abuse an AP is still an abuse and in my opinion a reliable company must to have a perfect image.

An advantage player will not risk breaching the T&C because he will know that the casino will not pay his possible winnings. I also consider that a lot of casinos have unclear terms and even a gambler can be punishable and in this way you have a confusing mix of complaints for which Max have to work very hard



I am partially agree with you. In the same time I belive that a potential customer can be influenced by what he see here even if he see only a topic name or an increased frequency of possbile issues.

I never said advantage players were good or bad. I also never said they shouldn't be paid. As long as they stay within the terms and conditions they have to be paid.

But it seems we'll never know in this particular case if the OP wasn't paid strictly for advantage play.

 

[chuchu59]

Is the second time on this topic when a person consider that advantage players are some bad elements which must not be paid. I belive that as long an AP respect the casino terms he must be paid. Casinos have on their side T&C and software bets limitations (seen only at RedFlush Grup and Vegas Partner Lounge) and enough tools to protect themselves without making abuse. Even if they abuse an AP is still an abuse and in my opinion a reliable company must to have a perfect image.

An advantage player will not risk breaching the T&C because he will know that the casino will not pay his possible winnings. I also consider that a lot of casinos have unclear terms and even a gambler can be punishable and in this way you have a confusing mix of complaints for which Max have to work very hard



I am partially agree with you. In the same time I belive that a potential customer can be influenced by what he see here even if he see only a topic name or an increased frequency of possbile issues.

I think you are getting mixed up here. Were the OP's story entirely true many members would have sided with him and called on the casino to pay up and at least to return the deposit. Wim's explanation in the opening post was hardly convincing. Hence almost everyone agreed that the OP should Pitch a Bitch so that MaxD could look into it. I and a host of others were surprised that the OP didn't do so given on paper he had a strong case. What is worse, he said he will PAB he didn't feel he will get fair treatment which is kind of an insult to Max and Bryan. I have my doubts on the facts presented by the OP.

 

[octav]

What is worse, he said he will PAB he didn't feel he will get fair treatment which is kind of an insult to Max and Bryan.

Given that this comunity reviewed casinos with a questionable past and in the accredited list are casinos with interpretable terms this lack of confidence should not be seen necessarily as a insult. The lack of confidence could be just a natural reaction.

Anway if he does not trust CasinoMeister he probably would not be here asking for help.

 

[maxd]

FTR no PAB has been received from the OP.

 

[Casinomeister]

ZZZZZzzzzzzzz

 

[dunover]

ZZZZZzzzzzzzz

Exactly! Lock it and bin it I say....

 

[skiny]

Anway if he does not trust CasinoMeister he probably would not be here asking for help.

And on the same token, if he doesn't trust Bryan maybe he shouldn't be accepting the hospitality of a person he doesn't trust and using his forum to soapbox an issue he never really wanted resolved in the first place.

 

[SkBurner]

May I ask Bryan, what is your take on the term? Vague or not. I think your opinion would be very welcome.