Resolved Bad experience on BetPhoenixCasino!

[skiny]

20 years ago when Seinfeld was fresh and new and doing his original stand up he was one of my favorites.

Him, Carlin... I'm a Lewis Black fan too.

I think we're wandering off topic though.

Still waiting for the results of the PAB.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Carlin

This!

 

[maxd]

Still waiting for the results of the PAB.

No PAB work on the weekends, sorry.

 

[skiny]

No PAB work on the weekends, sorry.

I didn't say I was expecting it today. I said I was waiting for it.

 

[takethemoney]

No PAB work on the weekends, sorry.

But some people drink PABST on the weekends.

 

[PiperSniper]

I can only say, that this PAB is on the way...

Dont know, why you want it - fact is that no promises regarding payment have been done...

This PAB is on the way, people

I cant say no more here !

 

[takethemoney]

Pipersniper, I trust you have been paid? How did the PAB go?

 

[maxd]

Casino has presented a batch of supporting evidence in the case, I'm still chewing on it: PAB is ongoing.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I would like to know whether the OP helping their mum open and play an account was the problem, or whether it was down to other factors that came to light during verification, such as 10 accounts being detected where there are only 2 according to the OP.

I also wonder whether the OP made the best choice for his mom in this situation. He seems to have gone for the biggest bonuses, rather than least trouble & ease of operation for his mom.

I also help my mom in finance and internet matters, BUT when selecting her broadband, I did NOT go for the cheapest, but the one she would find easiest to deal with.

One problem is that the online gambling industry revolves around English being the main language, and not being an English speaker severely restricts choice.

Microgaming has good support in other languages, and it's lobby can be set to Danish. This might have been a better choice for the OP's mom, as well as checking the bonus terns and conditions for simplicity, and full adherence to the MGS bonus system so that mom knew that once the bonus balance showed as zero, she was free to withdraw.

Following the money may not be as easy as it seems, and the 2x50 taken from the card after the account was closed may not be a "theft", but a delay in posting the purchase.

To get an accurate figure, check all the deposits made from the card at the casino end (cashier statement), and compare this with all the debits from the card account. For a start, the dates, even the ordering, may not match. I have seen this on a number of occasions, and on a couple it really did look like something was amiss until I did a full audit from a couple of months worth of statements.

The only sticking point seems to be the contradiction between the casino saying the money had been refunded to the card, and over a month passing with these transactions STILL not showing on the card account. Clearly something HAS gone wrong here. I am familiar with payments back to my VISA card, and delays of 5 days are not uncommon, but a month? No way!

 

[PiperSniper]

@Takethemoney

No, the remaining $570 have still not been paid to my moms account, and the PAB is not yet done.

@Max

I think, that me answering to these last 3 posts wont hurt my ongoing PAB, so I hope it is okay, that I reply. I look forward to hearing from you regarding what "prove" you have recieved.

@vinylweatherman

Maybe I could have picked another casino for my mom, but she wished to play at a place with biggest bonuses. I told her about RTG casino, which I myself mostly play. The "Achilles" slot is on RTG, and she wanted to try that out after my recomendation.

My moms account have not been accessed from other computer/home than my moms, so I simply dont understand what Nicolas is claiming regarding multiple account. This is a direct lie. Several documents have been send and approved. Even extra documents confirming that I am the son of my mother was send, and accepted by Nicolas co-workers.

After my moms account was closed, my mom and I checked her account every day after, and all made deposits with her creditcard was done and paid. So the fact, that they took 2x$50 the 2-8 cant be because something was delayed or still owed. I have said, that the 2x$50 was paid back the same day, but it is still not fair, that they do that. I know, that Omar at their casino knows my moms password to the visa electron card, that she made deposits with. He was always making the deposits manually, because it wasnt possible to deposit with visa electron in their cashier, so the livesupport had to make it. So this password have been known and must have been used to make that 2x$50 deposits... Why they did it, I really dont know.

I also dont understand why the remaining $570 havent been paid. Nicolas claims that the money is on its way, and that it is "out of their hand". He said that they use several processors to pay out players, so that is the reason why the money dont come at the same time. I dont get this! It is now 18 days since the first $300 of my moms withdraw came. Why does the other processors take so much longer time? This makes no sense, and Nicolas havent showed any will to REALLY take this in his hands, and make it solved. Why dont anyone at the casino contact their payment processors, and ask them whats going on? This is beyond me, and Nicolas wont even reply anymore to my emails. I email him a lot, because I want him to stick with his promise and make this money paid. The timeframe is now WAY over, what is acceptable, but it seems like that he really dont care at all...

 

[maxd]

@Max
I think, that me answering to these last 3 posts wont hurt my ongoing PAB, so I hope it is okay, that I reply.

Generally speaking, no, it isn't okay. The blackout on posts while the PAB is in progress is there for a reason. Ignore it at your peril, or rather the peril of your PAB which will be discarded if you continue to post while the PAB is on ongoing effort.

 

[vinylweatherman]

@Takethemoney

No, the remaining $570 have still not been paid to my moms account, and the PAB is not yet done.

@Max

I think, that me answering to these last 3 posts wont hurt my ongoing PAB, so I hope it is okay, that I reply. I look forward to hearing from you regarding what "prove" you have recieved.

@vinylweatherman

Maybe I could have picked another casino for my mom, but she wished to play at a place with biggest bonuses. I told her about RTG casino, which I myself mostly play. The "Achilles" slot is on RTG, and she wanted to try that out after my recomendation.

My moms account have not been accessed from other computer/home than my moms, so I simply dont understand what Nicolas is claiming regarding multiple account. This is a direct lie. Several documents have been send and approved. Even extra documents confirming that I am the son of my mother was send, and accepted by Nicolas co-workers.

After my moms account was closed, my mom and I checked her account every day after, and all made deposits with her creditcard was done and paid. So the fact, that they took 2x$50 the 2-8 cant be because something was delayed or still owed. I have said, that the 2x$50 was paid back the same day, but it is still not fair, that they do that. I know, that Omar at their casino knows my moms password to the visa electron card, that she made deposits with. He was always making the deposits manually, because it wasnt possible to deposit with visa electron in their cashier, so the livesupport had to make it. So this password have been known and must have been used to make that 2x$50 deposits... Why they did it, I really dont know.

I also dont understand why the remaining $570 havent been paid. Nicolas claims that the money is on its way, and that it is "out of their hand". He said that they use several processors to pay out players, so that is the reason why the money dont come at the same time. I dont get this! It is now 18 days since the first $300 of my moms withdraw came. Why does the other processors take so much longer time? This makes no sense, and Nicolas havent showed any will to REALLY take this in his hands, and make it solved. Why dont anyone at the casino contact their payment processors, and ask them whats going on? This is beyond me, and Nicolas wont even reply anymore to my emails. I email him a lot, because I want him to stick with his promise and make this money paid. The timeframe is now WAY over, what is acceptable, but it seems like that he really dont care at all...

WHAT

How come?

Support at a casino should NEVER ask for this. It is the last line of security protecting cardholders from online fraud.

Did support ASK for this password, or did you or your mom volunteer it through ignorance.

Even so, CS should REFUSE to accept this information, and if let slip, should NEVER use it to make a deposit go through.

The cashier should SUPPORT the password function, so that it is done SECURELY, as VISA intended.

Further investigation of this 2x50 is needed. It should NOT have even been possible to take it from a password protected card in the first place, and the fact that it was quickly put back indicates an error was made.

If VISA hears about this kind of thing being common, there could be trouble for the industry, as VISA will be much more prepared to do chargebacks if players claim the casino required them to hand over their password where the software was not able to support this security feature.

 

[LaurieJim]

Strange I had to have mine done manually before and i was never asked for a password at Bet Phoenix, just the general info you would give to any merchant over the phone you might be conducting business with.


Laurie

 

[maxd]

I would like to know whether the OP helping their mum open and play an account was the problem, or whether it was down to other factors that came to light during verification....

Very much an "other factors" situation, though not simple and blatant as having 10 accounts (as you had mentioned).

 

[reda]

in reference to nicolas . you stated in this thread that a player has a play routine that sets a patern. as a slots player i also am all over the place . different slots and then i raise my bet and if im up a little id like to play jackpot pinatas or a table game such as caribean poker. this type of play would be rare for me. now if i go off on a deep end and go off my patern how would you know its me playing. would i be questioned to have multiple accounts ?? which would no way be the case. i play differently from time to time. ill even once in a blue moon play a game i hate. so my question is If i decide one day to play a weird type game just to play something different will i be investigated if i got lucky and was able to make a withdrawl? just curious thats all.

 

[jod5413]

in reference to nicolas . you stated in this thread that a player has a play routine that sets a patern. as a slots player i also am all over the place . different slots and then i raise my bet and if im up a little id like to play jackpot pinatas or a table game such as caribean poker. this type of play would be rare for me. now if i go off on a deep end and go off my patern how would you know its me playing. would i be questioned to have multiple accounts ?? which would no way be the case. i play differently from time to time. ill even once in a blue moon play a game i hate. so my question is If i decide one day to play a weird type game just to play something different will i be investigated if i got lucky and was able to make a withdrawl? just curious thats all.

My opinion on this is, yes, Reda, based on what Niclolas has stated, changes in betting style could in fact cause trouble for you at cashout.

However, I would assume that a lot of "peeking" at a player's account would be due to bigger dollar winnings. So, most of us low rollers would not be at such a risk.

IMO it's all BS. Casinos make enough money off the players without having to rely on this petty ante garbage.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

in reference to nicolas . you stated in this thread that a player has a play routine that sets a patern. as a slots player i also am all over the place . different slots and then i raise my bet and if im up a little id like to play jackpot pinatas or a table game such as caribean poker. this type of play would be rare for me. now if i go off on a deep end and go off my patern how would you know its me playing. would i be questioned to have multiple accounts ?? which would no way be the case. i play differently from time to time. ill even once in a blue moon play a game i hate. so my question is If i decide one day to play a weird type game just to play something different will i be investigated if i got lucky and was able to make a withdrawl? just curious thats all.

No it won't cause you problems.

This is why:

You have 1 account with 2 betting styles. That is fine. 1 account = 1 sign up bonus = 1 place where we expose ourselves to risk (with free chips, big sign up bonuses, etc).

2+ accounts with 1 betting style is where the problem is. Especially when there are similirities in IP, name, spelling mistakes, or one voice behind both accounts. The reason the second is an issue is that we have a certain amount of risk exposure for each new account. We offer some very big free chips. Each account can take one. Same as some sign up bonuses.

If a casino can't figure out 1 person is behind 2+ accounts, that casino will not last long.

Normal players don't have 2+ accounts they actively use, so they have nothing to worry about. As my posting history will show, if we find someone who clearly ACCIDENTALLY had 2 accounts or maybe even 3, we will let that person cash out. I can't bother going into my previous posts, but I know I have made exceptions regarding this to casinomeister members as well as non-casinomeister members.

We want to keep ordinary players happy, that is exactly why we need to take care of not letting abuse happen, so we don't waste our resources on players who are only out to hustle a casino; we get to spend our money on our REAL players. People who actually enjoy gambling.

And even if you hustle us within our rules, we will write it off, that is part of being honest. But if you are hustling us AND breaking our rules, that is another matter.

...IMO it's all BS. Casinos make enough money off the players without having to rely on this petty ante garbage.

Please read the reply above Jod. However, I find what you posted very confusing considering one of your last posts:

It is really sad to see what state on line casinos have reached. Most of the casinos, even accredited ones,seem to have problems, partly due to the US govt sticking it's nose in.

As a result, I believe that all casinos are having a shortage of players. Then you add in the gobs of new casinos that keep popping up and you have a further reduction of players per casino.

I believe that is why so many casinos are crying "foul", like BP with their "negative value" player routine. Shortsighted, yes, but in all honesty I would be happy to get dumped by a casino that has to resort to that BS line with an honest player that got lucky enough to win (not that common an occurrence, I grant you). To me it screams "We are going broke"!!!!

Complaining on forums is absolutely the right thing to do, that is why we frequent them. Getting reports from other players helps us to stay ahead of the problematic casinos.

I guess what I am trying to say (damn it, Jod, spit it out!) is that there are too many casinos and not enough players to support them all. And that leads to pretty much all the slow pay, no pay, bonus ban, bogus cries of cheating players, multiple accounts, etc.

We are either going 'broke' or 'making too much money'. In either case, it seems you are going to criticize us for it. I guess that is your right. I'd really like to find a way to keep you happy and everyone here happy; if I'm missing something, please be patient with me; I'm here for this community.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

 

[reda]

thanks nicolas for your reply. i have several accredited casinos installed on my comp and have changed my play pattern a few times and managed to make a withdrawl and was never questioned. so when reading about a player that had a certain play pattern and was questioned really confused me. but as you said, the casino has a way to figure it out. i guess they figured i was legit.

 

[cdomi66]

Nicholas...

I usually check into CM once a day to try and keep myself up on the Casino industry etc. I've been following alot of posts that you are part of, and just wanted to say kudos to you.

I have an account with BetPhoenix but haven't played there much, but based on alot of your input here I'm reconsidering, feeling that if there is any issues they would be fairly handled.

You are patient, articulate and really seem to be trying to do good.

Nice to see a casino rep so involved.

Sorry if people here think I'm out of place with this post here, but I felt the need to give him a high five. The poor man takes alot of flack

 

[Marie2473]

I was just wondering how come the player is saying that his mom is still missing +$500 dollars, when The casinorep stated way back that it has all been paid from their side and is on its way?
Has it or has it not been paid?

It will be really interesting to see the outcome of the P.A.B as well in this case since I have really followed it. In the beginning, mostly since I help my mom all the time because of the language issue... Now I am just curious *hehe*

 

[Brooklyn]

I was just curious, has this been resolved or is the PAB still in progress? I am eager to know how this turns out as well.

 

[maxd]

Still in progress I'm afraid. I've been maxed out with administrative stuff and haven't had a chance to go back to the casino peeps on some of the evidence they've provided.

Later: just did that, and asked for some info from the OP too. Hopefully this will move things along.

 

[takethemoney]

Max has been "Maxed" out.

 

[LHofsdal]

I just made my first deposit with this casino. I managed to make playthrough and cash a nice little sum of money. I really don't have any type of play patterns, ( I don't think anyway,) but I have dealt with Nicholas before and I really do think he is fair.

I am curious to know the outcome of this also. I would play at this casino again, but the process to actually get your withdrawal processed is a little to long for me. 2-5 business days is not bad but the other 3 casinos I have installed are 24 hours. I don't think this casino is rogue or anything like that, and because it is still new I will be willing to wait to see if things speed up alittle bit.

LH

 

[BMWSTACK]

I just made my first deposit with this casino. I managed to make playthrough and cash a nice little sum of money. I really don't have any type of play patterns, ( I don't think anyway,) but I have dealt with Nicholas before and I really do think he is fair.

I am curious to know the outcome of this also. I would play at this casino again, but the process to actually get your withdrawal processed is a little to long for me. 2-5 business days is not bad but the other 3 casinos I have installed are 24 hours. I don't think this casino is rogue or anything like that, and because it is still new I will be willing to wait to see if things speed up alittle bit.

LH

was wondering if you wouldnt mind sharing what you deposited, what the bonus was, and what you won. If you do mind no big deal. I am curious becasue I tried them recently and have not even close to a win. Thanks.