Title: Winner Casino Refuse to Pay?

[RespekBA]

I am having issue with WinnerCasino

After depositing £!50 for the £300 signup bonus I managed to complete the WR and turn the deposit into a low/mid 4 figure sum. I was then asked for documents which were emailed and submitted. I heard nothing back after a while of the money not turning up I emailed to ask what was going on. I still received no correspondence so I went on live chat who told me my documents had been rejected (surely you should notify me of this?) as it was required for these documents to be couriered (at my expense) to an address in the Phillipines. The original win was in last September, I was not told to actually send courier'd documents til late October and they have arrived at some point in November (over 10 days ago).

I think its ridiculous that in this modern age, a casino require paper copies of Identification and that the cost of this is put on the casino player. Now nearly 3 months later I still have not received payment.

I cant help but feel that the posting of documents to an address in Asia is a stalling technique used by the casino. At the moment I am out of pocket both my £150 deposit and the £80 in fees to courier the documents....

So after playing at WinnerCasino successfully I really don't feel much of a Winner right now!

David Young

 

[dunover]

I am having issue with WinnerCasino

After depositing £!50 for the £300 signup bonus I managed to complete the WR and turn the deposit into a low/mid 4 figure sum. I was then asked for documents which were emailed and submitted. I heard nothing back after a while of the money not turning up I emailed to ask what was going on. I still received no correspondence so I went on live chat who told me my documents had been rejected (surely you should notify me of this?) as it was required for these documents to be couriered (at my expense) to an address in the Phillipines. The original win was in last September, I was not told to actually send courier'd documents til late October and they have arrived at some point in November (over 10 days ago).

I think its ridiculous that in this modern age, a casino require paper copies of Identification and that the cost of this is put on the casino player. Now nearly 3 months later I still have not received payment.

I cant help but feel that the posting of documents to an address in Asia is a stalling technique used by the casino. At the moment I am out of pocket both my £150 deposit and the £80 in fees to courier the documents....

So after playing at WinnerCasino successfully I really don't feel much of a Winner right now!


David Young

Unfortunately Playtech sites have a track record of stalling winners with this Notarized BS. It's a delaying tactic, hoping that you'll reverse. Read this thread:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...e-making-a-payout-costing-perhaps-£100.50672/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/vernons-casino-withholding-money.48953/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/winner-casino-problem.58827/

Go through with it, get your payout and then run a mile.

 

[Winner Casino]

Dear RespekBA,

We would like to first congratulate you on your winnings – we are happy to see that our customers have had profitable stay in our Casino.

Please allow us to give you more details about the withdrawal process in our Casino. Each withdrawal request is reviewed and will get processed in case all conditions have been met.

We have reviewed your account and we see that you have indeed sent us documents. The documents however appear to be checked by the Post Office and they have not been notarized.

We would like to ask you to send us the notarized documents we have asked for via post to our billing address. We do apologize for the delay but we need the documentation as a part of our regular security checks.

Once we have received the documents we will do our best to review your account as soon as possible and notify you of any updates regarding your withdrawal request.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Best regards,
Winner Casino

 

[rainmaker]

Unfortunately Playtech sites have a track record of stalling winners with this Notarized BS. It's a delaying tactic, hoping that you'll reverse. Read this thread:

Yes, especially smaller Playtech casinos have a tendency to do whatever they can to get the player to reverse withdrawals (long pending time, notarized documents, unacceptable payout rules related to progressive jackpots etc)

Players should stick to reputable Playtech casinos like Bet365 and Paddy Power.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Dear RespekBA,

We would like to first congratulate you on your winnings – we are happy to see that our customers have had profitable stay in our Casino.

Please allow us to give you more details about the withdrawal process in our Casino. Each withdrawal request is reviewed and will get processed in case all conditions have been met.

We have reviewed your account and we see that you have indeed sent us documents. The documents however appear to be checked by the Post Office and they have not been notarized.

We would like to ask you to send us the notarized documents we have asked for via post to our billing address. We do apologize for the delay but we need the documentation as a part of our regular security checks.

Once we have received the documents we will do our best to review your account as soon as possible and notify you of any updates regarding your withdrawal request.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Best regards,
Winner Casino

What a load of bollocks!!

It is pretty standard for casinos to take emailed JPEG files. Even without this, a Post Office stamp should be enough in those RARE occasions (It's good enough for a passport renewal or driving license application).

However, the really damning evidence is the timescale.

The win was in September, and you just kept ignoring the player's emails at first, and it was only when pressed via live chat that they discovered the need to post documents out to the Philippines.

It appears that these documents took around a MONTH to reach your offices, which is far too long even for post. They have now arrived, yet you STILL stall the payment.

You also try to pretend this is all standard procedure in the industry, and that the player should have known, rather than have to be told (hence the lack of notification).

It would have been quicker for the player to fly out to Manila and collect the money in person, and by the way things seem to be going, cheaper too.

Playtech are listed here on the UK stock market, so what's with the Philippines address. The company registered address would be better, faster (2 days at most for first class post), cheaper, and more secure (using "special delivery" or "recorded delivery").

The OP should raise this with their MP, as by the time they receive the payment (if they do), it would have cost more in fees than it is worth. Currently, there is NO guidance whatsoever from our government with regard to such KYC requirements from offshore companies, and it's not something I have ever come across outside of the online casino industry.

This issue REALLY needs to be raised with the UK authorities as what was once very rare has become a common request. Of course, when the Philippines join the EU this will no longer be such an issue.

 

[KasinoKing]

We have reviewed your account and we see that you have indeed sent us documents. The documents however appear to be checked by the Post Office and they have not been notarized.

I totally agree with VWM - this is total BS!

There are 100's if not 1000's of online casinos who will happily accept just scans of normal ID. Notarised documents are COMPLETELY unnecessary, as is sending personal information half way round the world by snail-mail.

As from today I am going to start looking at all the Playtech casinos on my sites, and if I find any with these totally ludicrous verification demands, they are history. In fact, I think I'll add them to my Blacklist Page.

KK

 

[RespekBA]

Hi everyone, thanks for your responses I checked back a week after and saw no responses so assumed no one here had looked at it and all of a sudden I notice there have been a barrage of replies.

Winner Casino Rep; you fail to respond to the fact no one replied to many of my first emails; I wasn't notified I would need to send documents by post and the poor customer service I have received which has resulted in numerous fruitless live chat conversations. At no point was I ever notified by email of the reason for my document failing; being notarised by the post office (which by the way is a valid way of notarising documents ask any mortgage supplier or check this link

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

The general way in which I've been treated and ignored has left me extremely frustrated, you don't win at a casino in September and expect to not have received the money by Christmas.

After a further email asking for details of why the document was rejected was ignored I sat on Live chat for 90 minutes today to be told the rejection was because of the notarisation issue (despite my rejection email clearly stating "rejected because the documents did not match") or something along those lines.

Anyway I was just coming back to update they have now informed me what the supposed issue is (about a month after repeatedly asking) and the whole thing has now been passed onto a manager. The first submission of notarised documents was at my expense and its getting a bit silly now so if it isn't resolved satisfactorily soon I intend to take this to the small claims court as I do not feel comfortable sending my paper documents to the Phillipines especially given the poor communication and service I have received from them so far.

Again; thanks to everybody for your help and I will update on the next development - and I will be researching where I play more in future or better yet just not playing online cos this has been unexpectedly stressful... especially unexpected given it is 4 figure win which I should be celebrating.

 

[dunover]

This is complete sh!te and they should be not recommended for this. Glad you haven't reversed, and I have just gone and closed my winner account having read this.

 

[RespekBA]

This company is a joke; on the 7th January I spent 2 hours on Live Chat to get a response from the security department, I was told it would take another hour to reach a manager. After 30 minutes of waiting I Was told "there is no definite time that a manager will be with you; we would like to contact you via email".

I made the live chat agent promise to raise a series of concerns and she said she would personally raise all of them. I get a response back on the 8th (though in my spam for some reason)....



From: sports@winner.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:03:59 +0800

Dear Mr. Young,

We are writing with regard to your documents. Our Security department confirmed that the documents you have sent are not valid. Please be reminded that we need a notarized copy of your ID and proof of address. You can get these via a notary and not the post office.

As per the Post office official website:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Before you pop in:
Double-check this service will be acceptable to the company, organisation or person you’re presenting the documents to. If you have any queries, give us a call on 0845722 3344."



FFS!

They make me wait 2 hours and don't address a single thing I have said they just repeat themselves and quote random lines. They a sham of a company and I am doing my best not to completely lose it right now.

I have wasted so much time; not had my money in time for Christmas despite winning in December and been prevented from communicating with anybody of authority as well have taking over £90 of costs myself. Now I will have to pay to get a lawyer to notarise and resubmit the documents and hopefully get my money sometime before Christmas 2014.

Literally main lesson I (and others should learn from this) is check for the credibility of these companies before playing with them. Sounds obvious in hindsight... *sigh*

 

[luckiestgambler]

Hi everyone, thanks for your responses I checked back a week after and saw no responses so assumed no one here had looked at it and all of a sudden I notice there have been a barrage of replies.

Winner Casino Rep; you fail to respond to the fact no one replied to many of my first emails; I wasn't notified I would need to send documents by post and the poor customer service I have received which has resulted in numerous fruitless live chat conversations. At no point was I ever notified by email of the reason for my document failing; being notarised by the post office (which by the way is a valid way of notarising documents ask any mortgage supplier or check this link

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

The general way in which I've been treated and ignored has left me extremely frustrated, you don't win at a casino in September and expect to not have received the money by Christmas.

After a further email asking for details of why the document was rejected was ignored I sat on Live chat for 90 minutes today to be told the rejection was because of the notarisation issue (despite my rejection email clearly stating "rejected because the documents did not match") or something along those lines.

Anyway I was just coming back to update they have now informed me what the supposed issue is (about a month after repeatedly asking) and the whole thing has now been passed onto a manager. The first submission of notarised documents was at my expense and its getting a bit silly now so if it isn't resolved satisfactorily soon I intend to take this to the small claims court as I do not feel comfortable sending my paper documents to the Phillipines especially given the poor communication and service I have received from them so far.

Again; thanks to everybody for your help and I will update on the next development - and I will be researching where I play more in future or better yet just not playing online cos this has been unexpectedly stressful... especially unexpected given it is 4 figure win which I should be celebrating.

Thank you for you sharing your experience with this Casino. I will for sure take note of this company. I hope you get to claim your bonus soon.

Thank heavens I haven't experienced this. I received my welcome bonus with 365 and 138 very fast after sending them a scanned copy of my documents. I love them!

 

[Eire71]

Eire71

Hi All. Im new on here and just waving

 

[RespekBA]

an update on this;

I sent a copy of my drivers license and a bank statement at the beginning of February and must have got the address wrong as it was returned.

I sent them an updated version which they received on the 26th of February; this time personally notarised by my bank manager who I explained the situation to and he assured there will be no possibility of quarreling his notarising would be "illegible" or anything along those lines.

Anyways I went to email Winner to chase them up on this and noticed they'd sent me another email saying my ID does not meet there specifications.

To note; my license contains my photo; date of birth; address and first and last name; expiry date; and the notary seal. Everything they ask yet they email saying

"We would like to inform you that the document you have sent us does not meet the necessary security requirements and therefore cannot be accepted as valid."
"• Photo
• First and last name
• Billing address as registered in the account ( only for proof of address)
• Birth date
• Expiration date
• Signature
• Notary seal"

To add to all of this I have spent 20 minutes waiting on live chat and had absolutely no response. I am at my wits end; every time I finally get things sent off and assume this entire debacle will come to an end it doesn't.

I get that I didn't exactly rush to send off documents but I waited for as up to date bank statement as possible in order to make sure there would be no issues and STILL there are issues. I am PM'ing the representative to ask for an explanation of the issue but it is TRULY poor form from Winner Casino I can not stress enough how much I regret the decision to play there.

 

[RespekBA]

A further update; it is so difficult to get any help from this company.

I have finally got onto live chat they are denying having received my most recent documents despite me providing the tracking number etc.

The live chat member is continuously trying to fob me off despite the fact I am requesting she look into it. It is absolutely appalling !

 

[RespekBA]

and a 3rd and final update of the night. Apparently bank managers are unable to notarize documents and they require a public attorney to do so.

I could not be more infuriated right now - first of all they suggest they haven't received the documents and they will email me shortly - when pressed they acknowledge receipt of the documents and make no mention of why they kept referencing the January documents previous. Now they are saying a bank manager is not sufficient notarisation despite it being sufficient for everything else in life.

This is just truly and simply poor form by winner casino and an obvious stalling tactic. I am at my wits end and will not have to fork out more for additional shipping costs and a further fee for more notarisation!

 

[Dinahnana]

I sympathize with you. Why don't you file a PAB and see if Max can get it sorted for you? Pitch a Bitch info can be found under the tab casino complaints. I wish you luck.

 

[RespekBA]

I sympathize with you. Why don't you file a PAB and see if Max can get it sorted for you? Pitch a Bitch info can be found under the tab casino complaints. I wish you luck.

Cheers for your advice, I will do this immediately; I have PM'd the winner representative and asked winner for information on their regulator.


For some reason it was really difficult to get them to confirm who their regulator was and they kept replying along the lines of "this is a sensitive issue that you need to email about" as I have a total of 2 email responses from my over 10 emails I have sent them I am reluctant to rely on that but I guess I will have to as they refuse to confirm the info on the website is correct (i'd expect it to be but only checked after live chat wouldn't tell me who regulated them and of course their lack of confirmation made me a bit iffy)

I have given up on them confirming and am going to assume the information on the website is correct.

Again thanks for your advice I am going to be dealing with this slightly more urgently now as where I initially assumed it was just a case of them not accepting Post Office documents it turns out they are just deliberately awkward and non-specific in how they deal with these things.




Addition: Thanks Osulle; I have not yet sumbitted a Pitch a bitch as having now read the conditions I'm not sure if this fulls under their area. "Winner Casino reserves the right to request documents etc etc."

if anyone can add anything to if rejecting first post office and then bank manager notarised documents I'd be interested and will immediately launch a PaB but it seems I can only launch one once against a casino not on the accredited list and as such I just will have to wait to see if this is a relevant complaint or they are indeed being 'reasonable' by industry standards.


@MaxD @Winner Casino

can you advise?

 

[maxd]

@MaxD ... can you advise?

After a quick once over I'd say why not PAB? FYI that "regulator" probably isn't going to be much use to you. In the past they have more or less been a black hole in terms of player complaints. Things may have changed but I wouldn't bet my lunch money on it.

 

[RespekBA]

Right I was going to Pitch a Bitch; but I can't find quite a few of the early emails detailing how poorly they communicated there issues so I've ceded to there demands and sent off documents notarized by a lawyer.

I find it really poor form I directly PM'd the winner representative asking him to comment and got not so much as a whisper back.

My parcel force tracking number is here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

EE455631740GB

Honestly if they give me another "We didn't receive your package yet" after receiving it I am going to be furious.

About £300 in fees so far to reclaim this money; steer clear of these clowns.

 

[dunover]

Dear RespekBA,

We would like to first congratulate you on your winnings – we are happy to see that our customers have had profitable stay in our Casino.

Please allow us to give you more details about the withdrawal process in our Casino. Each withdrawal request is reviewed and will get processed in case all conditions have been met.

We have reviewed your account and we see that you have indeed sent us documents. The documents however appear to be checked by the Post Office and they have not been notarized.

We would like to ask you to send us the notarized documents we have asked for via post to our billing address. We do apologize for the delay but we need the documentation as a part of our regular security checks.

Once we have received the documents we will do our best to review your account as soon as possible and notify you of any updates regarding your withdrawal request.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Best regards,
Winner Casino

B.S. This is not 'regular' at all, admit it! You only seem to inflict this stress and delay on those whom have won decent amounts.

If you continue to ask moderate winners to send documents to the Philippines at their expense in order to extend the reversal time (Vernons actually promised to give UK players an address in Liverpool after being exposed on here for this scam on a chap who won 70k) then I think you should go in the rogue pit. This chap has been waiting for weeks for his cash, and clearly the CS has been ranging from speak-to-the-hand to uncooperative to downright stalling.
I and most others here have never been asked for notarized ID; seems this is mostly a Playtech casino tactic. Then to send it to a corrupt third-world state on the other side of the planet makes me wonder about the intent of those casinos that use the place.
And it always seems to happen to players who have won a decent amount. The UK is quite an advanced society whereby the government and banks and utilities combined should provide pretty irrefutable proof of an identity alone - every other casino seems to think so.
Along with your (and many other PT casinos) insistence on withholding paid-up-front player jackpots for absolutely no good reason other than your gain and convenience, I am so glad I never play PT any more, and never will unless at a big-name reliable British Isles licensed site.
You can't provide a quick verification for players and thus quick cash outs, I hope very few players are quick to deposit with you.

I hope to hell the UKGC eventually bans sites like yours that indulge in both these practices. (Withholding jackpots and sending sensitive information to somewhere in the middle of the Pacific.)

 

[mrmark21]

Yes once I won around $200 off their NDB. I was amazed at all the stalling tactics they used over such a small withdrawal. Made me think about what would have happened had I won more and now I can see what would have happened... They would have asked for notarized documents!

They may as well have considering the casino was claiming at a stage my original proof of address had no address when it was on the utility bill in black and white. The Rep wouldn't respond to my messages. The casino appeared to be telling untruths to the affiliate who was supporting their casino. So on and so forth. Stick to the accredited list.

The casino eventually (about twenty days later) finally decided to pay me (thanks to ample coverage on this forum). Also apparently there's irregularities on the site and licensing (they may have corrected this though). Don't expect a response to your messages as I never got one. Don't play the money back that's what they want you to do otherwise they wouldn't be stalling payment. Apart from that congrats on the win and I hope you get paid

 

[jjezebel37]

All I can say is disgusting.

 

[KasinoKing]

All I can say is disgusting.

Unfortunately you will find the same crap at at least 50% of all Playtech casinos

I can only imagine the bosses at Playtech have rocks in their head: How can they be so blind that they can't see what ENORMOUS damage these rogue operators are doing to the reputation of their whole brand AND to all the decent honest operators who also use their software?
It boggles my mind, it really does.

KK

 

[syntynyt]

winner casino must have no connection at all with their poker client as they pay within 2 days to ewallets. different management? i made 2 withdrawals in mid 2013 and i was paid with no stress. i have a friend with which i play poker and he won from their free $2 ticket at Bonanza, $650. verification took 1 day and 2 days later money were sent to skrill. is not the first time i read roguish actions of their casino but never read something similar about their poker. if i had this idea some time back, i have recommended to sent your casino money in poker, to play some speed poker for several bucks, withdraw and see what happens. too late though.

 

[stokes]

Just to share some different experience with Winner.

I have requested 2100 USD withdrawal last Tuesday, got the money to my Visa Card this Monday.
I have had account with them since 2010, but rarely played there and no withdrawal until last week.

I was concerned after seeing this thread, but no documents were asked from me (I think I never had KYC check with them) paid after 3 days of pending period.

 

[coxwel]

What Winnercasino is doing here is really disgraceful, and cant be seen no different as poor stalling, i hope for the op he gets paid in the end.

What I wonder about is, on what basis they do these "notarized docs" trick, as it seems obvious this tactic is not for any security measures.

From my own experience with winner, after reading this thread, i have to consider myself lucky they didnt try to pull these tricks on me.

In the end 2013 i used the 500% sign up bonus on 7regal, one of their other casinos. I made a dep of 20, received 100 in bonus, playthrough was really fair, between 10-15 times wr on dep+bonus. I had some decent hits and ended up with a balance of 800+€ as the bonus is not cashable i requested 700€ for wd, I received nada! communication about my wd, no request for docs nor any transaction receipts. So i send in my docs just to make sure, and after the 4days pending was paid via wire within 1day. As I once went to livechat asking why i dont receive any communication from them about my wd, or my docs the agent just replied: you got paid already, this should be important for you. It was a bit strange, he was more than a noirmal support agent in my view as between the lines he sounded like: you get your money, why now you come here and ask for confirmation or any written communication?.

Anyway, they paid on time and it was a really generous bonus compared to other playtech casinos. As I just made a 20€ dep i wonder why they havent requested notarized docs from me, maybe 700€ was not enough for them to stall or they have different measures for different countries.

So i assume they are "selective" stallars, i made a good profit on 7regal, but have no intention on depositing again after reading this, also the lack of communication seems a bit dodgy, no answer to emails you send to support, no communication at all, but payment just came in. So if they want they can.

For the OP i wish they pay him as soon as possible and also compensate the fees he had to pay for post and notarization, after this mess he went through it´s the minimum professionalism they should show. Also why theres a rep for winner? He shgould come here finally explain and apologize, this would only be in their favour, as for now, i assume anybody reading this thread will stay away from winner, as if theres a problem their communication lack makes things really hard to resolve.


cheers

coxwel