Baptism by Fire - failed Sunset Slots

[Googobucs]

I have the opposite opinion to DeBeuker; I think casinos should be able to put max cash-outs on deposit bonuses if they see fit - as long as this is very clearly stated in the T&Cs.
Players are free to chose if they want to take bonuses or not - no-one is forcing them to take them (especially at Rival casinos, where AFAIK they are never automatic bonuses).

Personally, as a low-roller I would rather have a good bonus with low WR and a (reasonable) max cash-out, than one with high WR and no cash-out limit.
Players who prefer high variance, bet very big or play progressives should not take bonuses with limits. It's just common sense.

KK

Great concept and I'm a fan of something for everyone. Problem is that the WR is 30X so it's not low. In fact it's more that Slots capital or Desert Nights at 25X with no max cash out.

 

[De Beuker]

I have the opposite opinion to DeBeuker; I think casinos should be able to put max cash-outs on deposit bonuses if they see fit - as long as this is very clearly stated in the T&Cs.
Players are free to chose if they want to take bonuses or not - no-one is forcing them to take them (especially at Rival casinos, where AFAIK they are never automatic bonuses).

Personally, as a low-roller I would rather have a good bonus with low WR and a (reasonable) max cash-out, than one with high WR and no cash-out limit.
Players who prefer high variance, bet very big or play progressives should not take bonuses with limits. It's just common sense.

KK

Ofcourse casinos are free to offer whatever they want, never said they arent.
And if its a good bonus, fine, but it has to be VERY good or I wont take it.
A 50 or 100% match with 30x D+B WR is imo by far not good enough to justify a max. cashout.
I can get better with no max. cashout anywhere, and I can play without bonuses everywhere.

Remember your 5 scatter frenzy on Ladys Nite?
What if the casino took more than half of those winnings because you took a 50% bonus?
I know how I would feel, so I'll never take one of those..

 

[SlotsLover]

NO MAX CASHOUTS

I have the opposite opinion to DeBeuker; I think casinos should be able to put max cash-outs on deposit bonuses if they see fit - as long as this is very clearly stated in the T&Cs.
Players are free to chose if they want to take bonuses or not - no-one is forcing them to take them (especially at Rival casinos, where AFAIK they are never automatic bonuses).

Personally, as a low-roller I would rather have a good bonus with low WR and a (reasonable) max cash-out, than one with high WR and no cash-out limit.
Players who prefer high variance, bet very big or play progressives should not take bonuses with limits. It's just common sense.

KK

With all due respect, and I respect KK's opinions and love his website, I think max cashouts on slots deals are horrible and abhorrent. I completely understand that it's the player's choice, but I think that this rule takes advantage of inexperience players who don't realize how horrible this rule is and how low the RTP can be with this rule. Again, for example, if one plays a 100% bonus with a 10x max cashout and deposits $25 and plays $1 per spin, all cashouts over $250 are truncated. Well, that means a good run gets greatly reduced and every one of the 1000x or more big hits on the 1000x screenshot page are reduced 75%. To me, that's just not fair. And I don't think betting $1 when starting with $50 is a "high variance" strategy and if a player wants to "play a rush" and raise the bet when they get ahead, then this effect is even worse.

 

[KasinoKing]

Great concept and I'm a fan of something for everyone. Problem is that the WR is 30X so it's not low. In fact it's more that Slots capital or Desert Nights at 25X with no max cash out.

Of course casinos are free to offer whatever they want, never said they arent.
And if its a good bonus, fine, but it has to be VERY good or I wont take it.
A 50 or 100% match with 30x D+B WR is imo by far not good enough to justify a max. cashout.
I can get better with no max. cashout anywhere, and I can play without bonuses everywhere.

My post was not specifically referring to Sunset Slots - just bonuses in general.

I totally agree with both of you; a WR of D+B x30 is WAY to high, no matter what the % of the bonus or cash-out limits are.
I would never take a bonus with WR that high (unless it was a high % one and I just wanted to play mostly for the fun of it).

The average MG casino has WR of Bonus ONLY x30 on slots with an average RTP around 96%, so how Rival casinos (in general) with average RTPs around 94% can justify higher WRs is beyond me...
(A few of the Rivals I list do have SUBs that are only (D+B)x15 (bonus x30) - but the majority are higher).

KK

 

[Balthazar]

SunsetSlots is not a white label, they have their own in-house support 24/7, and are licensed in Curacao.

Deposits and withdrawals processed through Bonne Chance NV

 

[aceking123]

there been some great comments i do agree with a few members there is no such reason if a deposit has been made that the casino has offered you upto a 100 or 199% should ever be locked by 20x times , free chips granted dont have a problem with that is its clearly free money from the casino & i can understand that they get 1000s of player just abusing this.

how about setting the first 3 deposit bonuses as no max cashout any bonus above 200% there onwards could carry the 20x deposit & bonus rule ( loyal players who do deposit with & without bonuses should be rewarded with better terms & offers )

but im pretty sure if i have a choice in where i play im not going to be playing here under the current rules of 20x

i would like to see another rival casino get some standards back going here at casino meister there only a couple i would even bother trying to play at , so good luck to sunset slots i hope you can look at what us members are saying & pointing out which may benefit your casino in the long term

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Thank you very much for your input... This is great food for thought. We will give this some considered thought and see what we come up with. There a few levers that we can pull to make this a less contentious issue.

there been some great comments i do agree with a few members there is no such reason if a deposit has been made that the casino has offered you upto a 100 or 199% should ever be locked by 20x times , free chips granted dont have a problem with that is its clearly free money from the casino & i can understand that they get 1000s of player just abusing this.

how about setting the first 3 deposit bonuses as no max cashout any bonus above 200% there onwards could carry the 20x deposit & bonus rule ( loyal players who do deposit with & without bonuses should be rewarded with better terms & offers )

but im pretty sure if i have a choice in where i play im not going to be playing here under the current rules of 20x

i would like to see another rival casino get some standards back going here at casino meister there only a couple i would even bother trying to play at , so good luck to sunset slots i hope you can look at what us members are saying & pointing out which may benefit your casino in the long term

 

[Nate]

But a lousy 50-100% matchbonus should, in my eyes, NEVER have a max. cashout attached to it.
The WR should be more then enough to make it EV-.
I mean, first you have to clear the WR, and if you do hit that dreamhit you can only cashout a part of it?
Your casino, your choice, but I would never play under those conditions.

Sorry to say - but rules like this on such small bonuses are already a warning sign or a probability that Sunset Slots is underfunded.

Like it or not - Which Casino would try to limit their exposure on a 50%-100% Bonus? Seriously?

Nate

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Sorry to say - but rules like this on such small bonuses are already a warning sign or a probability that Sunset Slots is underfunded.

Like it or not - Which Casino would try to limit their exposure on a 50%-100% Bonus? Seriously?

Nate

Nate, please allow me to set your mind at ease.

Firstly, we regularly offer bonuses in excess of the standard 50% or 100% - for example – our Halloween promotion where we offered 200% up to 400. This bonus, as I am sure you would agree, increases playtime significantly and adds to your experience.

Secondly, your statement about Sunset Slots being underfunded is pretty severe and frankly a bit irresponsible. There is no evidence of this and I would like to invite any Player, Affiliate or Marketing partner of our Casino that has not been paid what is duly theirs to let us know. A conservative approach to bonusing is certainly no cause to assume anything about our funding.

SSS Ops

 

[SlotsLover]

A conservative approach to slots is fine, but even at 200%, the max cashout ruins all enjoyment from slots. The more bonus you have, the longer the playthrough by definition, so the casino should be somewhat protected in that manner anyway. Additionally, the casino might want to put a higher rollover on a larger bonus. I guess the point I'm making is that many players don't actually understand how horribly the max cashout affects RTP and what it means until it's too late.

I just can't imagine when I hit that 25k spin 8 years ago only collecting $2000 or $4000 (it was a $100 deposit with 100% bonus). I also can imagine a casinomeister thread entitled "1000x or more spins that were truncated due to max cashout rule."

 

[Mouche12]

Nate, please allow me to set your mind at ease.

Firstly, we regularly offer bonuses in excess of the standard 50% or 100% - for example – our Halloween promotion where we offered 200% up to 400. This bonus, as I am sure you would agree, increases playtime significantly and adds to your experience.

Secondly, your statement about Sunset Slots being underfunded is pretty severe and frankly a bit irresponsible. There is no evidence of this and I would like to invite any Player, Affiliate or Marketing partner of our Casino that has not been paid what is duly theirs to let us know. A conservative approach to bonusing is certainly no cause to assume anything about our funding.

SSS Ops

I hear what you're saying but you seem to circumvent the issue of the max cashout, particularly on small(er) bonuses. Could you please elaborate?

 

[Googobucs]

The T & C indicate a max cash out of $2500 per week. Does this apply to network progressives as well? There is no specific mention of this that I could find.
thanks

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

HI,

There are no restrictions on max cashout on progressive jackpots. Of course we will try to work with the player to manage the best way to get the win to you without attracting too much attention but if you want the entire amount, you are welcome to it.

SSS Ops

The T & C indicate a max cash out of $2500 per week. Does this apply to network progressives as well? There is no specific mention of this that I could find.
thanks

 

[maphesto]

I thought I should give these guys a try, I downloaded from KK:s page and registred. No promotions available. An email with documents request came at the same moment I signed up.

I have never seen this before play at any casino I have played at.

I the email with the documents request this was written:

Please make sure to write your username and "Sunset Slots" on all the documents.

My question is, why should I write that if it wasn't shared support???

Isn't ALL docs and email sent to them ONLY for sunset slots?

 

[maphesto]

Inside the download casino they have a live chat window where a today "Kate" said welcome to the casino. I asked her why they wanted documents from me.

-It is because you are linked to rival bonus ban.

I thanked her and said "most helpful."

Session ended.

I now wonder how I can be linked to rival bonus ban? I am bonus banned at most rival casino but "linked"?

And what have bonus ban with security docs to do?

 

[Tirilej]

May I ask what horrible things you did to end up in that list.
Did you win?

 

[maphesto]

May I ask what horrible things you did to end up in that list.
Did you win?

Yes! I should probably apologize. I read terms and played after them, they couldn't even deny my winnings.

As Rival says it about their tool casinocontroller:

Virtually limitless data-mining tools for automatically tracking and sorting players into convenient categories

I am sorted into the category "can cashout" probably.

At Ace Revenue casinos, for me in the lobby, it says : Player class: Skilled player No bonuses there...

 

[maphesto]

And now she (Kate) phoned me for verication purposes. When she wanted me to confirm my email address I asked if she wanted me to confirm ALL my email addresses used at Rival casinos or just the one used at Sunset Slots. Only my personal email address she said. Is this why they said "linked"? I didn't use the same as always. I thought it was common knowledge to have several email addresses to prevent spam. She was pleasant and said have a nice day. She did not talk about bonuses...

 

[bigjohn]

Note to casinos who try the BBF here in the future;

Please send a rep. who will answer questions directly or who will simply say, "we cannot discuss that at this time."

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Hi Maphesto,

I am checking in with Rival now to get the exact details for you, will pm you with results shortly.

SSS Ops

And now she (Kate) phoned me for verication purposes. When she wanted me to confirm my email address I asked if she wanted me to confirm ALL my email addresses used at Rival casinos or just the one used at Sunset Slots. Only my personal email address she said. Is this why they said "linked"? I didn't use the same as always. I thought it was common knowledge to have several email addresses to prevent spam. She was pleasant and said have a nice day. She did not talk about bonuses...

 

[Mouche12]

HI,

There are no restrictions on max cashout on progressive jackpots. Of course we will try to work with the player to manage the best way to get the win to you without attracting too much attention but if you want the entire amount, you are welcome to it.

SSS Ops

Thank you for answering this question on progressive jackpot payouts, but you seem to have missed my question about the issue of max cashouts on small(er) bonuses. Thank you for looking into this and posting your findings in this thread.

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Hi,

The max cashout issue is something that we are still looking into. We are taking a lot of the suggestions that people are posting here and applying it to our specific data to see what make sense for us. I know that many of you have a very in-depth understanding of casino economics and the many variables that can affect outcomes and can appreciate that this is not an overnight process if we don't want to be changing it again in a few weeks.

I am honestly very thankful for your input and this is something that we are applying our minds to. At this point, I do however beg your patience while we run the numbers.

SSS Ops

HI,

There are no restrictions on max cashout on progressive jackpots. Of course we will try to work with the player to manage the best way to get the win to you without attracting too much attention but if you want the entire amount, you are welcome to it.

SSS Ops

Thank you for answering this question on progressive jackpot payouts, but you seem to have missed my question about the issue of max cashouts on small(er) bonuses. Thank you for looking into this and posting your findings in this thread.

 

[Nate]

Secondly, your statement about Sunset Slots being underfunded is pretty severe and frankly a bit irresponsible. There is no evidence of this and I would like to invite any Player, Affiliate or Marketing partner of our Casino that has not been paid what is duly theirs to let us know. A conservative approach to bonusing is certainly no cause to assume anything about our funding.

SSS Ops

Severe and irresponsible...? Where did you dig that up from?

You are in the Baptism by FIRE thread... not by water or fluffy feathers.

The general nature of people here at CM is to be skeptical. If you could answer me why smaller bonuses have a max cashout then I would rest assured that it may not be the case with your operation. For the record, it was 'possibly' not fact that you were underfunded. I do not beat around the bush - this thread determines whether you become accredited or not and if the members don't ask questions or go about investigating things, then ... it just wouldn't be CM.

In general, its not a great big secret that your cash flow determines what type of Software you can go for. We have seen many Rival Casinos, come, go rogue and disappear.

Do you have Max Cashouts? Do you have weekly limits?

Nate

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Severe and irresponsible...? Where did you dig that up from?

You are in the Baptism by FIRE thread... not by water or fluffy feathers.

The general nature of people here at CM is to be skeptical. If you could answer me why smaller bonuses have a max cashout then I would rest assured that it may not be the case with your operation. For the record, it was 'possibly' not fact that you were underfunded. I do not beat around the bush - this thread determines whether you become accredited or not and if the members don't ask questions or go about investigating things, then ... it just wouldn't be CM.

In general, its not a great big secret that your cash flow determines what type of Software you can go for. We have seen many Rival Casinos, come, go rogue and disappear.

Do you have Max Cashouts? Do you have weekly limits?

Nate

Hi Nate,

I sincerely appreciate and thank you for your honesty and your direct approach.

To quote my previous post – “There is no evidence of this and I would like to invite any Player, Affiliate or Marketing partner of our Casino that has not been paid what is duly theirs to let us know. A conservative approach to bonusing is certainly no cause to assume anything about our funding.”

Surely if there were issues with us slow paying players or not paying them or our marketing partners there would have posts on this. We have also not had any issues where the max cashout was an issue or where we capped a cashout because of the max cashout rule. As an up and coming Casino we pride ourselves in processing withdrawals quickly and efficiently and keep our players happy. Rest assured that our finances and funding is securely in place and well managed.

The max cashout rule on bonuses is usually placed on free money promotions - which is industry standard. We are currently looking into changing the term on deposit bonuses in order to find a happy middle ground for all involved.

I agree with you that there are a few Rival operators that are in the Rogue Pit, and some of the issues that you have raised have been addressed in there. They were however not directed at Sunset Slots.

This said, I do realize that in the past it was quite a challenge to build a trustworthy relationship with some of the Rival-powered Casinos, but we have embraced the challenge with open arms and I can assure you that there are many other Rival operators and indeed Rival themselves that look forward to changing perceptions and providing players with a solid, fun gaming experience.

Best,
SSS Ops

 

[sigothx1]

Ive read the thread, The rep seems polite enough, and admits on launch there were some mistakes, and i guess im in a good mood, got $125 to play with tonight so ill give them a shot, hopefully a good experience but ill report on the software atleast when i inevitably bust out!