Scam Casino Should I chargeback at Red Lion Casino?

[Surfer]

Hi Guys, I am new here and have been rather a silly boy and opened an account with what I believe to be a scam casino called 'the red lion casino' which claim to be licenced in Curacao but when I email the e-gambing commision in Curacao they have never heard of this casino. They seem to offer all the games and services (netbet) that are not to be offered in the UK. they dont seem to show their licence number presumably because they don't have one.

I opened it because I am on gamblock and I am self excluded myself from UK bookmakers as I am a problem gambler but that is a different story. I deposited many times to the tune of 2000 over 2 credit cards and they show as a dodgy transaction company in Moscow on my statement. I played and won some money which I wanted to withdraw (1500) and I went to make a withdrawal and I was told by their customer services £500 was the maximum and only withdrawal at a time dispite their own 'terms and conditions' saying that 10k was the maximum monthly withdawal limit. they just see to make up the rules to suit them. this took days and days of emailing them to withdraw it so I could get my money back and I kept getting told it will be done ASAP. and being the problem gambler I am kept playing heavily and lost it all. One of the deposits I made was for £300 and I when I logged onto my online banking they took another £300 without adding it to the bettings account, I asked them to cancel it and put it back into my credit card account they said they couldnt and that they have credited my bettings account and I have to wager it atleast once to then withdraw it and of course I lost that too.

I am fully aware how stupid this all is but having read some things on here I may be eligle to chargeback those transactions on the grounds that they don't have a uk licence and they offer all the rigged netbet games they shouldn't in the UK.

I have raised a chargeback on all these transactions and received them back into my 2 credit card accounts and raised the dispute with all the information and emails from the curacao commission etc, my question is what are the chances of a successful chargeback on these grounds? they have reversed the transactions but what are the chances of them just readding them once theyve spoken to the merchant and they say i'm bang to rights. Like I say I am very aware I have been stupid and I should write the money off to experience but if I can get the money back and the games I was playing were rigged then it is unfair.

Please be kind

See Related Threads:

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• The Red Lion - Legit??
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Check out Bryan's brutally honest review of this rogue casino here.

 

[paul7388]

Easiest way to dispute the transactions if Credit Card company gets funny is to point out we are not allowed to use Credit Cards for gambling in UK so transactions should not be allowed.

Anyway since noone else has mentioned it do you really think it is a good idea to have Credit Cards with that sort of limit if you cannot control your spending. You did the correct thing by registering for Gamblock. But then went looking for dodgy casinos to play at using your Credit cards.

So what would you have done if the Casino had paid the winnings no Problem. Kept going back till you had maxed out all Credit Cards got yourself deeper in debt and then tried to charge back anyway.

Think now you have managed the Chargeback you should be thinking of ways to make sure you are never in this position again. Even if it means destroying the cards.

 

[colinsunderland]

Which part is wrong? What reason did barclays give you for reversing?

legally the company is not allowed to operate here so all fraudulent transactions

That part is wrong. It doesn't automatically follow that a transaction is fraudulent for that reason. It's been shown on here in the past that banks won't usually automatically reverse them. Plus, as most the time the transactions aren't to a casino, then it makes it even harder to use that line of attack.

 

[Mwalmsl3]

For anyone who needs a hand this is what I sent..
“
Dear HSBC

My name is ———— and in January of this year I had a relapse in my addiction to gambling. As you can probably see I have spent vast amounts of money on gambling in the past and have never phoned and tried to claim money back prior to this occasion. I last had a bet in March of this year and have been abstinent since this time. My mental health deteriorated as anyone's would who had just lost £25,000. I have sought help for my addiction and have just completed a 3-month residential rehabilitation specially designed for problematic gamblers. It was during my time here that I learned about the website I had lost the money was infact a bogus/scam casino with heavy links to money laundering and the Russian Mafia.

I had tried for months to get this site to delete my account and permanently self-exclude to prevent me from wasting more and more of my hard-earned money. When they time after time ignored my emails or came up with reasons why they couldn’t I decided to research them. I came across a forum which had several hundred people who had similar experiences to mine. All of them had won money just like I did and they prevented them from withdrawing it thus not making it a level or fair playing field. I won a total of £14,000 and they refused to pay me out, asking over a period of days for more and more information. Stupidly I sent copies of my bank statement, debit card, passport, birth certificate amongst other things. They have access to my IBAN number and also passport details. I deposited more and more money whilst they dealt with my withdrawal knowing I would have access to my £14,000 at some point, which of course never transpired.

I am claiming back all of the money I have sent these scammers on the grounds of misrepresentation. I have successfully claimed back from American Express without issue. On my bank statements they are the transactions that go to
“quickbit” Crypto currency
“TP Payment MOSKVA”
“24/7 NCP service” Car parking Azerbaijan
“Gumplay” Toothbrush company in Azerbaijan
“Uni Apparells” Clothing website in New York
“JLW Hostels” Hostel in Ghana
“PES” (amex) Electrical shop in China
“Iraklion Grupp” Contracting company in Ukraine
“DV Trim Direct” Flooring company in Minnesota
I vehemently deny making any transactions to ANY of these places listed. When I initially filed out my claim over the telephone to HSBC I believe some transactions to another casino which is genuine were also claimed for by accident of the call handler. Also another casino I used in February which showed in my bank statement as “PULSION PROCESSING” is also genuine transactions. It is only the transactions going to the places mentioned above. This company is claiming to be “Red Lion Casino” and “Harry’s” but has taken payments from me under different names all around the world.
They have filed fake bets on my account which I never made and have also included on my transaction history that I have made a withdrawal of £500 on the 6th of February which of course if you look at my bank statement simply is not there.
I have tried to include as much evidence as I can in screenshots and photographs but you must understand the majority of emails sent to this company were deleted when I stopped gambling because I wanted to draw a line under it, thinking that I had lost fair and square. Most of the transactions were with Barclays which total £15,500. I am in touch with someone who has had the same issue and HSBC charged back the company for the transactions and because they are a scam and bogus, they never disputed it or tried to argue their case. I ask you temporarily refund all of the transactions made to the above companies and ask them to provide you with evidence they are a real casino that is registered with a gambling commission. It states on their website that they are registered with the gambling commission in Curacao but an email to the gambling commission in Curacao proves otherwise. This is also included in my evidence.
I have recently emailed them and told them I know they are bogus and scammers and asked them to refund my money, they have since closed down my account. Below is a list of transactions made to Red Lion but does not distinguish whether HSBC, AMEX or Barclays.”

I hope this helps ??


Check out the full writeup on Harry's Casino here.

 

[Chargebackfraud]

Morning Andy,

Revolut refused to raise because it was gambling and said I had no other option. Basically did their best to stop it.

I then realised I had an active bet block function (Revolut have this feature) and forced them to tell me the MCC. It took ages to get this info. I threatened legal action if they didn't disclose. They then told me the MCC and they were all miscoded. This was all well within the 45 day limit.

I raised a formal complaint on several grounds. No license, selling to UK players, miscoding, multiple jurisdictions they do not own and fraud/theft (of my withdrawals).

Revolut have told me I have no grounds to dispute the actual transaction because I got the chips I wanted. They have only raised with MasterCard/Merchant based on miscoding and I could price every transaction. They made me write down every deposit with the time, name and amount and match it to my bank transactions. Almost nothing matches but I have enough of a trend based on same time and approx amount.

I have no idea if I'll get my money back but if I don't, I think Revolut and MasterCard are on very dodgy ground, given the evidence I have. Just look at Wirecard and MasterCard. It's about corruption within the aquiring bank. This is crime, simple as. Too many poorly people back down, feeling ashamed of their gambling illness. Problem gambler is a horrible term.

Life goes on, regardless. A return of the money would be nice now I feel better. I'm in an odd position of having also lost significant withdrawals. Don't really fancy a court case with MasterCard but I will.

One other thing I did is show my evidence of trying to resolve the issue with the merchant and their responses. Notice how the casino says no problem, money on the way, please wait 30 days (attempting to get you past 45).

I'll let you know what happens guys. MasterCard and Visa could stop this very quickly if they blocked the acquiring bank but clearly it's paying not to at present.

 

[dunover]

Yep, scam casino, fake games, criminal fraud outfit. If they dispute the chargebacks send the bank the proof it was an unlicensed scam casino, the fact that Russia is on the transactions will be ample to convince your bank IMO.

 

[Casinomeister]

Red Lion Casino | Rogue Casino | Classic Rip Off Joint

 

[Surfer]

I appreciate the feedback. Initially they didn't want to know and 'don't get involved with gaming site disputes'. They only listened when I said I didn't believe the games were legit and that they were fake. I wondered if you have any way of proving they are a scam other than copy and paste the review site and the email from the gaming commission. I hoping they see the transaction company and close the case there and then. I didnt know the ins and out of the merchant challenging my dispute etc. I really just want to put it to be and know that i'm keeping my money but it could take a few months for them to process everything.

 

[Casinomeister]

Any casino taking bets from a UK resident is required to be licensed by the UKGC. Simple as that. This is an unlicensed casino - there is no hyperlinked UKGC logo, and no record of it at the UKGC site. It's a scam.

So technically this is not a gaming site dispute. If they don't have a gambling license, could they be considered a gaming site? I would say no.

 

[dunover]

Any casino taking bets from a UK resident is required to be licensed by the UKGC. Simple as that. This is an unlicensed casino - there is no hyperlinked UKGC logo, and no record of it at the UKGC site. It's a scam.

So technically this is not a gaming site dispute. If they don't have a gambling license, could they be considered a gaming site? I would say no.

With the fake games you aren't even getting what (you shouldn't have been!!) paying for. These scammers won't challenge the chargebacks anyway - ask them for their UKGC license no. if they do.

 

[Slottery]

Any casino taking bets from a UK resident is required to be licensed by the UKGC. Simple as that. This is an unlicensed casino - there is no hyperlinked UKGC logo, and no record of it at the UKGC site. It's a scam.

So technically this is not a gaming site dispute. If they don't have a gambling license, could they be considered a gaming site? I would say no.

With same logic we would have to call all casinos who accept Finnish players as scams as in Finland gambling is a monopoly and only Veikkaus is authorized to provide gambling in Finland. If UK peeps want to play with many crypto casinos or for other reasons some who don't hold UKGC license, wouldn't call them all as scams only because they don't hold UKGC license. You are not allowed to provide your services in UK, but providing them in Curacao and accept UK players is maybe not that simply scam.

 

[Casinomeister]

With same logic we would have to call all casinos who accept Finnish players as scams as in Finland gambling is a monopoly and only Veikkaus is authorized to provide gambling in Finland. If UK peeps want to play with many crypto casinos or for other reasons some who don't hold UKGC license, wouldn't call them all as scams only because they don't hold UKGC license. You are not allowed to provide your services in UK, but providing them in Curacao and accept UK players is maybe not that simply scam.

I understand the dilemma here - and not all casinos that take bets they are unauthorized to take are rogue. Sometimes there are grey areas, sometimes the laws are not clear. But in this case, it is quite clear. The software providers for these casino games can only provide their platform to properly licensed entities.

So these games are pirated copies = rogue. Additionally, there is a current trend for casinos like this to target problem gamblers. Just check out this casino's brethren. Like this shithole: Cherry Fiesta Review: Rogue Casino - takes illegal UK bets

 

[Slottery]

I understand the dilemma here - and not all casinos that take bets they are unauthorized to take are rogue. Sometimes there are grey areas, sometimes the laws are not clear. But in this case, it is quite clear. The software providers for these casino games can only provide their platform to properly licensed entities.

So these games are pirated copies = rogue. Additionally, there is a current trend for casinos like this to target problem gamblers. Just check out this casino's brethren. Like this shithole: Cherry Fiesta Review: Rogue Casino - takes illegal UK bets

100% agree about this case, just referred to that simplification that all who take deposits from UK residence are scam.

 

[Casino12345]

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[pinnit2014]

Must be on mass spam - 4 emails in the Junk in the last hour from them

 

[Deleted member 58138]

I’m in the same position as you surfer but I deposited via my debit card and the transaction came up for a company called ‘burn booster X’ when I have looked this is a weight loss pill?! I have tried to email the red lion casino with no joy on replies so far, is this what your transaction came up as to?

 

[JC1985]

Hi All,

Similar position, does anyone know where I stand. Saw some of the offerings for this casino and stupidly signed up! Turns out I won about £3k over two months, and upon my request to try and withdraw this balance, they go quiet! I send multiple emails, quote their T&C's and they occasionally come back to me.
Does anyone have any advice? I keep hounding them via email.

Similarly, a number of reviews for this casino are giving 5 stars to I've taken to contacting the people who have reviewed explaining my experience in the hope that no one else falls for this!

 

[Worried Dave]

Hi All,

I'm in a very similar position, also a problem gambler and with these continual lockdowns etc found myself searching for betting sites i'd be able to access whilst being self excluded with GamStop.

I signed up and deposited £50 this shows as a transaction on my bank account to "Leshanmall" and similarly to others above they took slightly more (although they do reference returning this on their deposit page - i can see how silly this looks now on reflection)

Anyway as a problem gambler, the only interest i had was being able to place bets again. I won a couple of bets and then lost including my initial deposit and went on to make 4 further deposits the day after totalling £900 (total amount taken was £939.73)

I now have a balance of £1650 in my red lion account after winning a number of sports bets and also on Live Casino (which looks really legit)

I assume based on the above i have absolutely no chance of getting this money??? I have had some contact with Red Lion via email yesterday, i was querying a slots bonus they provided to me (i never play slots) and was told it was a cashback offer from the previous day. I did also ask about their Know Your Customer approvals, they told me what was required and also for me to provide my full IBAN number for withdrawals. I questioned this along with providing a screenshot of their apparent "terms and conditions" where it states you can withdraw via the deposited card.

I use Monzo and they dont provide IBAN numbers so I havent provided anything to them.

Has anybody had any luck with chargebacks? I'm conscious that if i just go to Monzo asking for my money back and that its a rogue casino they may not get involved? Do i even tell them its betting related and just query the charges? The transactions on my account show in Chinese Yen and then converted and are as follows:

Leshanmall 04/01
Douenjoye 05/01
Douenjoye 05/01
Douenjoye 05/01
Aroman 06/01

all under category of "Shopping" as well


Any help on best course of action would be great please?

 

[Worried Dave]

Just an update - my bank have refunded all charges

 

[Cobrinha10]

Goodness me I’ve been so delighted with my winnings with this company, just to find out I now have zero chance of seeing the money. I currently have four and a half thousand pounds sitting there with them and by all accounts I imagine I won’t see a single penny.

Should have done my own research on the company before gambling and I’d have no problems but that’s hindsight I guess any advice on what to do now? Sent them lots of emails over the past few days asking for them to approve a pending withdrawal I made on Tuesday and they continue to say they’re just a bit slow transferring from one currency into another for a bank transfer I’m guessing they have no intention of ever sending me a penny

 

[dunover]

Goodness me I’ve been so delighted with my winnings with this company, just to find out I now have zero chance of seeing the money. I currently have four and a half thousand pounds sitting there with them and by all accounts I imagine I won’t see a single penny.

Should have done my own research on the company before gambling and I’d have no problems but that’s hindsight I guess any advice on what to do now? Sent them lots of emails over the past few days asking for them to approve a pending withdrawal I made on Tuesday and they continue to say they’re just a bit slow transferring from one currency into another for a bank transfer I’m guessing they have no intention of ever sending me a penny

nope - unlikely as they are criminal money launderers.

read @Worried Dave posts above. Because they are indulging in online fraud and illegal unlicensed gambling, they disguise the payments as his post says, so card companies don't block them.

That has advantages for the scammed player though, who can truthfully deny he made any payments to a Chinese company in Chinese Yuan so it's easy, as Dave did, to get a refund for the unlicensed deposits.

Or simply stick to not gambling if you are on GAMSTOP instead of assisting organized crime by playing at those sites!!

 

[dunover]

Just an update - my bank have refunded all charges

yeah, now take heed and stick to not gambling!!

 

[Cobrinha10]

nope - unlikely as they are criminal money launderers.

read @Worried Dave posts above. Because they are indulging in online fraud and illegal unlicensed gambling, they disguise the payments as his post says, so card companies don't block them.

That has advantages for the scammed player though, who can truthfully deny he made any payments to a Chinese company in Chinese Yuan so it's easy, as Dave did, to get a refund for the unlicensed deposits.

Or simply stick to not gambling if you are on GAMSTOP instead of assisting organized crime by playing at those sites!!

I’ll try what Dave did and learn my lessons hopefully I’ll get my deposits back, stay away from gambling, I appreciate everyone’s advice in this thread.

 

[Cobrinha10]

Just an update - my bank have refunded all charges

How did you manage to get refunded via your bank? If I tell my bank I signed up and deposited to a rogue casino, I’m not sure they would be willing to just refund?

 

[Worried Dave]

How did you manage to get refunded via your bank? If I tell my bank I signed up and deposited to a rogue casino, I’m not sure they would be willing to just refund?

Who do you bank with? I bank with Monzo and they were really good and quick to resolve.

I explained that I thought I was depositing to an online casino - none of the transactions are associated with an online casino. There was 3 different ‘merchants’ that payments went too even though I was depositing in the same place so quite clearly not a legitimate service being provided.

also 4 of my 5 transactions were in Chinese yen and the final one was in American dollars another sign it wasn’t legit.

my bank did ask for screenshots of my current red lion casino balance - definitely get these so it doesn’t look like you’re trying to recover money that’s lost. I don’t expect the actual transactions will look like they have been made to any online gambling company because they’re not set up as one, so the bank probably treats it similar to if it was card fraud on say Amazon or something.

I also provided them with the ‘casino’ website and the email correspondence I’d had with them