MoneyBookers account hacked and emptied...

[Chron]

Could have been a phishing

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It's awful when it's happen, but these guys are all over the Internet. Some sites offer you the opportunity to install a recognizable picture which will show up before you log into the site (the downside is that this picture can only be stored on your PC.
Get Adware as an extra protection

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Lava soft is the world-market leader in anti-hacker software and it is certainly worth having it as an addition to Norton or any other top anti-virus program.

But keep on trying to get it sorted and your money back.
Good luck.

Got a very nasty surprise this-morning; a series of e-mails about withdrawals from my MB account which weren't by me!
Turns out my account was hacked.

Doubly annoying because I just withdrew €250 from a casino in the early hours which hit my account at 1:37am... and the thief started stealing all my money at 1:58am.
He/she made 14 small-ish withdrawals over the next 5 hours until my whole balance was gone

Hopefully MB can recover the funds - but I don't know what the chances are...?

KK

 

[parpol]

KK I'm sorry!

Apart from this, we are legally protected from loss through fraud from our banks and cards, but there is NO such legal protection when it comes to Neteller or Moneybookers. If the eWallet isn't able to recover the money, that's just tough on the victim.

Neteller VIP (only) customers are protected from fraud 100%!
xxhttp://public.neteller.com/content/en/rewards_vip_fraud_guarantee

 

[vinylweatherman]

KK I'm sorry!


Neteller VIP (only) customers are protected from fraud 100%!
xxhttp://public.neteller.com/content/en/rewards_vip_fraud_guarantee

Seen that, but not LEGALLY protected. It is still down to the goodwill of the company, and another poster said "VIP is useless" when they are called upon to deliver a VIP perk.

Neteller can wriggle out of the obligation by saying the customer did not take enough care, and was defrauded because of this. Banks and card companies also try this one, but at least the law is there to slap them down and make them pay up.

 

[parpol]

Neteller can wriggle out of the obligation by saying the customer did not take enough care, and was defrauded because of this.

If one respects the rules:
1) change of password every week or two with Roboform
2) use a good antivirus and firewall (I use Nod 32 version 4 and ZoneAlarm Pro)
3) If you only play from your PC
etc.etc.
I believe that Neteller has no problem to repay the balance (in theory)

Then in practice are not 100% sure, I never happened by chance.
While Moneybookers not just in theory this certainty.

If I remember correctly a player of Eastern Europe were collected funds from your Moneybookers account for $6K, the repayment has been (can not remember exactly) by 30/40%

 

[Bencuri]

What an unpleasant event. And why it's worse is that you didn't even keep that money for a long time on your account. However I am sure you will get that money back, because your money can only be withdrawn to a bank account, credit card or cheque dedicated to your name. If those target methods are not under your name and details, moneybookers won't send them there, as far as I know. I don't even understand how that guy could make a withdrawal? Maybe registered a new credit card? Or by requesting cheque? Even if he requested a cheque, that was sent you you in your name I guess, because the system sends it to your registered address, doesn't it?

 

[Rhyzz]

Hope you get this sorted KK

On the subject -
I have both MB and NT accounts. Can someone use them to fund money from my actual bank account (as I can), and then steal the cash? Or would they also need to somehow (highly unlikely) hack my "Verified by Visa" security as well?

If you're enrolled to Verified by Visa then you have to enter your password every time you use the card online, so the answer is yes, they would need to use this password too.

Out of interest, why do people use ewallets when you have cards? Never understood it personally, it's not like you pay tax on winnings and you need to hide it...

 

[The Viking]

If you're enrolled to Verified by Visa then you have to enter your password every time you use the card online, so the answer is yes, they would need to use this password too.

Out of interest, why do people use ewallets when you have cards? Never understood it personally, it's not like you pay tax on winnings and you need to hide it...

actully here you have to if its bigger then 5 grand i think, its somewere around 20% so i rather keep my winnings at Neteller and use there master card to spend my winnings instead of wire the money back to my account and have the tax man around

 

[vinylweatherman]

If you're enrolled to Verified by Visa then you have to enter your password every time you use the card online, so the answer is yes, they would need to use this password too.

Out of interest, why do people use ewallets when you have cards? Never understood it personally, it's not like you pay tax on winnings and you need to hide it...

1) eWallets ringfence your gambling money.
2) Credit cards now charge fees and interest on gambling deposits, and unlike purchases, interest is still charged even if paid off in full when the statement arrives.

3) Credit card companies are blocking more and more gambling transactions because they trigger their automated fraud flags. Most casinos do NOT support "verified by VISA", and this is another reason such transactions get blocked.

4) Debit cards work better, but if compromised, can end up with your bank account getting emptied, which can have a severe knock-on effect on your day to day life, and can lead to bills not being paid and charges mounting up. If your eWallet is hacked and emptied, only your gambling is put on hold, not the rest of your life.

5) eWallet transactions are much faster, especially withdrawals. Cards hold your money up for a couple of days, and where casinos can't refund to your card, they insist on sending a cheque, which means even more delay before you can use your winnings.

6) If your eWallet doesn't have the money, your deposit gets rejected. If you use a card, your deposit may still work, but you will find yourself overdrawn, possibly an unauthorised one, and will be hit by massive charges.

One feature offered by eWallets is actually a security weakness. You can connect a bank acccount to it, and where there is not enough money to cover a transaction, your bank will be charged via a prearranged variable direct debit, rather than your deposit getting rejected. The weakness here is that if your eWallet is hacked, your bank can be emptied too.

Another aspect is privacy. If you use your bank debit card, your bank will know that you gamble, when, and how much. They may also make assumptions using an incomplete model, for example, they will see the debits, but may not be where you receive your withdrawals, so the bank will think you are losing far more than you are.
This data will then count against you if you apply to your bank for a loan or mortgage, even just an overdraft.
In the UK, the taxman doesn't care about gambling winnings, but WOULD care about any AFFILIATE derived earnings, which are usually "laundered" by the affiliate system and can not be differentiated from gambling wins/withdrawals once remitted to the UK.

I am sure that the tax office will eventually figure out what is going on, but at present they are just not geared up to fit this kind of income into the tax regime, hence it is down to the honesty of individual taxpayers to self declare affiliate earnings.

 

[Rhyzz]

Fair points VWM but I'd say when push comes to shove, it's personal preference.

Affiliate earnings - it's a dangerous game. You have to consider the tax return beind filed at the other side and why the operator isn't paying tax on X% of said income - it's because they wrote it off as a cost to your 'company', so it will catch up with them and bite them in the ass. Unless of course they have the company registered overseas....

 

[mellakka]

I would try also, immeadly after i had notice my MB was hacked try to cancel those transactions by my self.

It is available in here:
Log in -
Email support -
send money -
I wish to cancel a send money transaction -
The transaction is a normal send money transaction -
Choose ID number

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Uploaded with

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Those accounts(emails) where money have been removed they are not maybe even created yet and there is a change to cancel those.

 

[colly]

Good luck getting to the bottom of this- a few years ago one of my casino accts was hacked into and the money withdrawn to moneybookers. A few months later my moneybookers acct had withdrawals showing which werent mine (I stopped using them after the first incident) While the casino recredited the funds to my casino acct MB never replied responded or gave any explanation for the security lapses despite requests for info from me and the casino.

I hope you can get your funds but I suspect you will not get a satisfactory explanation

 

[leonardo99]

Sorry for your problems KasinoKing, I'm a little scared now, because I use only MB...
Any news from Moneybookers support?

 

[KasinoKing]

Out of interest, why do people use ewallets when you have cards? Never understood it personally, it's not like you pay tax on winnings and you need to hide it...

Basically - what Vinylweatherman said!
I play casinos and receive affiliate income in 3 different currencies: For $US I use Neteller, for € Euro I use MoneyBookers, and for £UK I use my Debit Card or Direct wire transfer.
It's just more convenient that way for me.

Sorry for your problems KasinoKing, I'm a little scared now, because I use only MB...
Any news from Moneybookers support?

No - not a peep from them at all. I may have to phone them again tomorrow to find out what's going on...

Thanks to everyone for your kind comments & wishes - that's what makes this forum so great!

KK

 

[Pulver]

Basically - what Vinylweatherman said!
I play casinos and receive affiliate income in 3 different currencies: For $US I use Neteller, for € Euro I use MoneyBookers, and for £UK I use my Debit Card or Direct wire transfer.
It's just more convenient that way for me.


No - not a peep from them at all. I may have to phone them again tomorrow to find out what's going on...

Thanks to everyone for your kind comments & wishes - that's what makes this forum so great!

KK

Don't know if you are a VIP or not, but I found at that calling them\asking for my VIP contact was MUCH swifter that going through the email loop (takes them ages to reply to an email).

Anyways, hope you get this sorted KK..Btw. have you done a virus scan and a spyware scan on your computer? If they got hold on your Moneybookers login details, they might have gotten access to other casino accounts etc. I would do several virus\spyware scans if i where you...

Good luck!

 

[chayton]

Well that sucks. I agree with the other posters, more than likely it was a keylogger on your computer - I actually just found one on my computer but luckily my firewall asked me when it tried to phone home. If you're only using Windows Firewall, it will only stop programs coming TO your computer, so you need a firewall like ZoneAlarm that also stops things from calling out.

The one thing that seems odd in your situation is that they made a bunch of smallish withdrawals instead of one big one. And also if they're using your account to play at a casino and then cash out, wouldn't it go back into your account?

 

[chuchu59]

so what is mb doing right now? the least they could do, in the light of kk's incident, is to warn users to be careful with their login info and provide more security. it seems they are simply shrugging it off as a one-off incident and that is irresponsible

 

[kauphy]

sorrie to hear that happened to you kk. i do hope you get your money back.

awhile back the samething happened to me with netteller.

someone hacked into my account put somebodys eles c-card on it and started makeing withdrawls.

they also tryed to get money from my bank but i found out before any of the charges went thought and told my bank to shut my account down.

netteller said they would look into it and they came back a week later and told me i was

responsable for everything and said i owed them over 800$.

i asked them how the hell could i be when it was not even my c-card that they used.

i felt so sorrie for the people that that card belonged to they did over 5000 on it.

and in the end i told them to go to hell and close my account.

and i still have all their e-mails and everything eles in case they ever try to come after me.

i so hope that they get to the bottom of it for you kk.

i,ll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[Webzcas]

This really sucks KK. I hope you get it sorted and get your money back.

Several years ago, someone attempted to hack my neteller account, and neteller locked my account down. Thankfully their security stopped the breach - The person was based in the US and neteller only allowed access to my account from a Gibraltar IP as that was where I was living at the time.

I've never used moneybookers and after reading your plight, I won't be ever tempted to. Stick with bank cards, neteller and paypal where accepted. As from what I know, you have far more protection and recourse from this kind of thing.

 

[P.V.]

First off sorry your account was hacked KK.

Hope everything gets worked out.

My question is where did the money go when your account was hacked? It has to wind up in another MB account and moved from there. If MB has been doing their due diligence during registration then they have confirmed the recipient of your money.

In short MB knows where your money went.

MB, Neteller and all the ewallets are nothing more than a gateway for the transactions, they don't actually approve or deny any card transaction.

MB should be able to tell you where your money went, easily. Maybe they should take the leap from 128 bit encryption to 256.

Player's need to be aware of the security risks facing this industry and unsecure requests being made.

IF MB is a stand up company KK your funds should be returned if fruad has occured.

 

[BubbleG]

FSA

Well this can't be good for the security of funds they control not just with regard to hackers but as of 03/05/2011 Moneybookers are no longer authorised by the FSA in the UK yet the webste still claims they are.

Basic details for: 214225 -

Moneybookers Ltd
Current status: No longer Authorised
Effective Date: 03/05/2011

How they could potentially help in this situation i'm unsure but the FSA would certainly be a good body to complain to if the firm was not doing what it should to prevent this type of thing.

Neteller on the other hand are still regulated

Basic details for:229737 -

Neteller (UK) Ltd
Current status: Authorised
Effective Date: 20/10/2004

 

[spiderman]

Keep us updated KK

Hi KasinoKing,

I would never imagine a major processor like Moneybooker could be vulnerable. I hope that it's not the norm. If Moneybooker is not completely infallible then we should be wary of UseMyWallet as well.

 

[KasinoKing]

I will of course keep the thread updated - if I ever have anything to report.
As of right now I have e-mailed MB twice to ask what's going on but got no replies in any form.
I am assuming (and hoping) that this is only because the security team don't work weekends... ?

In the meantime, thanks once again for all the support & suggestions from everyone!

KK

 

[Nifty29]

I will of course keep the thread updated - if I ever have anything to report.
As of right now I have e-mailed MB twice to ask what's going on but got no replies in any form.
I am assuming (and hoping) that this is only because the security team don't work weekends... ?

In the meantime, thanks once again for all the support & suggestions from everyone!

KK

I wouldn't put money on a fast reply.

Neteller still haven't replied to my emails and its been 4 weeks.

The policy seems to be not to tell the victim anything, so that they can't protect themselves better.

 

[Rhyzz]

No longer registered with the FSA? Is that because they rebranded as Skrill or because they're now specifically targeting gaming, thus don't feel the need to be registered as a strict 'financial institution'...

 

[mellakka]

they are really slow answering what comes for normal email, and now if your account is closed u can't send messages from support inside of moneybookers witch is much more faster, that sucks.