Resolved Dama N.V. -- shouldn't the system stop a player REGISTERING

[deleted-user-20240310]

Hello,

Dama N.V. has stolen my money, more specifically lukki.com. Here are the details:

- I opened an account on lukki.com on Tuesday. The registration process was completed successfully, and I had to fill all my personal info (as always when registering).
- I got a validation link via email, which I followed. The system worked as expected, the site said verification complete.
- I deposited via Rapid Transfer. The deposit was completed (money gone from my bank account) -> I was redirected to casino (as always after a succesful deposit). I got an email saying the payment is complete.

After this, I was logged out of the casino. I tried to login, but got an error message "your account is disabled". Obviously, I went to the live chat instantly to ask what this is about (live chat is now closed from users not logged in). They said my account has been closed by their decision. Ok, I thought maybe I had self-excluded from some of their sister sites, which then was applied to this new site as well. I asked for a refund, as what else I could do if I cannot login to their site.

If a player is self-excluded, shouldn't the system stop a player REGISTERING before making a deposit? As far as I know, curacao casinos don't usually have a license-wide self-exclusion, so I cannot know for sure if I can play at a certain casino without registering.

A refund should be straightforward: just send the deposited money back to the same account it came from with the same payment method (EDIT: Rapid Transfer is instant to both ways). Or so I thought! The live Chat started asking for documents (ID, Bank Statement, Proof of payment). Well, after asking why they need the documents, I sent them instantly. I waited on the chat some time for the refund to be completed, after which the chat was automatically closed.

I reopened the chat and asked what the problem was. I asked for a timeframe for the refund. NOTHING - not a simple answer when the refund is completed (which, frankly should be done immediately as it is a fault in their system). Just basic answers: "will be refunded shortly", "please wait patiently" etc.

After this, I got an email asking for the SAME documents I already sent them via live chat (and some additional information). I told them the documents were sent, and also provided the additional information (Bank name, bank address etc.).

After this, I have gotten two emails, saying "the refund is in progress, your money will arrive shortly". When asking for a timeframe or a reason for delay, no answer.

So in my opinion, there is no sugarcoating it: Dama N.V. has stolen my deposit. A refund should be done immediately when a player's account is closed by their decision - not use a player as a bank. Thank god the deposit wasn't very large.

PS. Before anyone says "wait for a bit longer". A refund is not a withdrawal. The deposit is MY money, not the casinos money, so waiting times or pending periods shouldn't apply.
PPS. I will keep you posted if/when the money arrives.

 

[justdoit]

crypto casino fiat money takes abet longer, same as withdraw even if is your own money or wining money, they could take even longer coz management need to check doc and other BS, not sure why you guys play on some casinos when everyone else play on more safe casino

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

crypto casino fiat money takes abet longer, same as withdraw even if is your own money or wining money, they could take even longer coz management need to check doc and other BS, not sure why you guys play on some casinos when everyone else play on more safe casino

lukki.com is not a crypto casino. It has Rapid Transfer deposits and withdrawals. I have never played on any crypto sites, I always only play on sites with Trustly, Zimpler, Rapid Transfer or Brite, as they are instant (Once approved).

EDIT: However, I cannot see why documentation is even needed on refund (nor have gotten a valid answer from them) - the money is just (hopefully) sitting on their casino. Why can't they just refund the money with the same payment method as used (RapidTransfer)?

 

[justdoit]

lukki.com is not a crypto casino. It has Rapid Transfer deposits and withdrawals. I have never played on any crypto sites, I always only play on sites with Trustly, Zimpler, Rapid Transfer or Brite, as they are instant.

lot of other casinos have rapid visa bank transfer etc and crypto

 

[justdoit]

lukki.com is not a crypto casino. It has Rapid Transfer deposits and withdrawals. I have never played on any crypto sites, I always only play on sites with Trustly, Zimpler, Rapid Transfer or Brite, as they are instant (Once approved).

EDIT: However, I cannot see why documentation is even needed on refund (nor have gotten a valid answer from them) - the money is just (hopefully) sitting on their casino. Why can't they just refund the money with the same payment method as used (RapidTransfer)?

here is crypto option with all others options

 

[SCATT3R]

If I have understood their procedures correctly, all deposits go into the "Dama Players' Account" and that's where any refunds come from too.

I requested it once, when the casino I played at shut down right during my session. I asked for a refund and had it in my bank account within a week.

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

lot of other casinos have rapid visa bank transfer etc and crypto

Well, sure but that doesn't make it a crypto casino does it?
(PS. I have never used crypto anywhere so I am not sure how they work, but the payment receipt showed 20€, not BTC or whatever it is).

 

[justdoit]

lukki.com is not a crypto casino. It has Rapid Transfer deposits and withdrawals. I have never played on any crypto sites, I always only play on sites with Trustly, Zimpler, Rapid Transfer or Brite, as they are instant (Once approved).

EDIT: However, I cannot see why documentation is even needed on refund (nor have gotten a valid answer from them) - the money is just (hopefully) sitting on their casino. Why can't they just refund the money with the same payment method as used (RapidTransfer)?

ever casino C/S is to talk to you find out what is the problem, they past your massage to management, C/S they dont know much

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

If I have understood their procedures correctly, all deposits go into the "Dama Players' Account" and that's where any refunds come from too.

I requested it once, when the casino I played at shut down right during my session. I asked for a refund and had it in my bank account within a week.

Thanks for the reply!

If this is the case, my original point stands: if a player is self-excluded from sister site (as I believe is the case here), block REGISTRATION. Do not allow payments and only after then block the account. I seriously don't accept MY money standing on 'player account' for a week because of their error.

 

[justdoit]

Well, sure but that doesn't make it a crypto casino does it?
(PS. I have never used crypto anywhere so I am not sure how they work, but the payment receipt showed 20€, not BTC or whatever it is).

yes you right but many gamblers makes deposits on crypto not fiat, coz payout is faster on many casinos under 5mins, and everyone call them crypto casino

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

ever casino C/S is to talk to you find out what is the problem, they past your massage to management, C/S they dont know much

Sorry, not sure what you mean by C/S (is it customer service)?
The problem is, their live chat has been closed if I am not logged -> I cannot contact them directly, only by email. And they reply VERY scarcely (if at all), and give the same "on the way", "be patient" replies without any reason why the refund is delayed or any timeframe when to expect refund.

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

yes you right but many gamblers makes deposits on crypto not fiat, coz payout is faster on many casinos under 5mins, and everyone call them crypto casino

Not me! With my vast experience in online casinos (and having to go trough KYC-hell in several cases), I only ever play with casinos having INSTANT withdrawal methods (to bank account)

 

[justdoit]

Sorry, not sure what you mean by C/S (is it customer service)?
The problem is, their live chat has been closed if I am not logged -> I cannot contact them directly, only by email. And they reply VERY scarcely (if at all), and give the same "on the way", "be patient" replies without any reason why the refund is delayed or any timeframe when to expect refund.

yep C/S (is it customer service)
give them time like 4-5 working days see what happen, before you join other casino do research coz lot of scam casinos out there

 

[maxd]

FWIW Curaçao casinos are not obligated by their license to apply self-exclusion to sister casinos. SOME casino groups do it but that is their individual choice, not a license requirement. Some of this is changing (slowly) but it's not a safe assumption at this time.

@manttih , We have pretty good contacts at Dama/Softswiss and that could be helpful in getting your issue taken care of. If you'd like us to look into this for you you're welcome to use our complimentary Player Arbitration (PAB) service. Here's a guide to getting started with that: How to submit a Player Arbitration (PAB) Ticket - Casinomeister Forum

If you do proceed please ensure that you have read and will comply with the Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures . Failure to comply with the rules could slow, damage or even cancel your PAB.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Head of Dispute Arbitration & Player Complaints (PABs)
Casinomeister.com

 

[justdoit]

Not me! With my vast experience in online casinos (and having to go trough KYC-hell in several cases), I only ever play with casinos having INSTANT withdrawal methods (to bank account)

Winz.io Casino Review (2024): Scam or Legit? Find out at Casinomeister

is not bad to play lot of games good RTP but they will ask you for KYC , I also play there but on crypto deposit not sure how long they take withdraw on bank withdraw

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

FWIW Curaçao casinos are not obligated by their license to apply self-exclusion to sister casinos. SOME casino groups do it but that is their individual choice, not a license requirement. Some of this is changing (slowly) but it's not a safe assumption at this time.

@manttih , We have pretty good contacts at Dama/Softswiss and that could be helpful in getting your issue taken care of. If you'd like us to look into this for you you're welcome to use our complimentary Player Arbitration (PAB) service. Here's a guide to getting started with that: How to submit a Player Arbitration (PAB) Ticket - Casinomeister Forum

If you do proceed please ensure that you have read and will comply with the Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures . Failure to comply with the rules could slow, damage or even cancel your PAB.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Head of Dispute Arbitration & Player Complaints (PABs)
Casinomeister.com

Thanks for the reply,

Yes that was also one of my points: usually Curacao casinos don't apply SE to sister casinos - so the only way to test if I can play is to register: Which is why the REGISTRATION should be blocked, not closing my account AFTER successfull deposit. If they - indeed - have decided to apply SE to sister casinos, it is an obvious fault in their system (I'm not even sure if that was the reason for account closure after reading some other forums here...)

I'll wait until tomorrow to see what they reply (if they reply at all). If there is no progress, I'll probably submit a PAB.

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Winz.io Casino Review (2024): Scam or Legit? Find out at Casinomeister

is not bad to play lot of games good RTP but they will ask you for KYC , I also play there but on crypto deposit not sure how long they take withdraw on bank withdraw

KYC itself doesn't matter to me (as long as it is straigthforward with no deliberate stalling). But the methods I mentioned are instant once the withdrawal is accepted by the casino.

BUT, this is going to side track As I said in my first message, we are not dealing with WITHDRAWAL but a REFUND, which should be instant in my opinion.

EDIT: Instant, meaning it is sent back to my bank account immediately, even by SEPA payment

 

[maxd]

@manttih , the casino people tell us that you managed to deposit before auto-locking was applied, which is unfortunate but it does occasionally happen.

As to your deposit they have every intention of returning it but you need to pass basic KYC first for Lukki to ensure that the funds are being sent to the correct person and to minimise interference in the bank transaction.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@manttih , the casino people tell us that you managed to deposit before auto-locking was applied, which is unfortunate but it does occasionally happen.

As to your deposit they have every intention of returning it but you need to pass basic KYC first for Lukki to ensure that the funds are being sent to the correct person and to minimise interference in the bank transaction.

- Max

Thanks @maxd for your help, appreciated!

The question becomes: Why do they tell you this instead of me as the player? Also, I still don't understand why I need to pass basic KYC anyway (via RapidTransfer, they know exactly who the money came from -> who the money should be returned to - never have there been any interferences with bank transaction). In refunds, basic KYC should take max 10 minutes (as I said earlier, they asked for the documents on live CHAT and I sent them everything right then - after which they started requesting the SAME documents again via email)

Also, auto-locking sound PRETTY far-fetched. I could register using the same email I have always used (the system should block that). On top of that, I managed to follow the verification link. And ONLY after that did I deposit.

I would like to know how many accounts they have 'auto-locked' and taken players' money for themselves to "wait for basic KYC" (thread: Dama nv has disabled my all casino accounts - Casinomeister Forum springs to mind).

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Thank you all for your answers and help! The refund is now back on my bank account, and you can set this case as resolved.

EDIT: Concerning the question "shouldn't the system stop a player from registering", the answer is YES. Any self-exclusion checks SHOULD be done the instant a player registers (if they have a database holding all player accounts, the query can be done in milliseconds with email as it is unique). Any other case is a faulty system.

 

[maxd]

You're welcome. We're happy to see it worked out.

Please feel free to bring your next casino issue to light here at Casinomeister, but perhaps you could try it without the groundless accusations and innuendo next time. You'll find the process easier on your blood pressure and much less likely to cause offence that way.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

You're welcome. We're happy to see it worked out.

Please feel free to bring your next casino issue to light here at Casinomeister, but perhaps you could try it without the groundless accusations and innuendo next time. You'll find the process easier on your blood pressure and much less likely to cause offence that way.

- Max

Thanks @maxd! Will do.

As for "groundless accusations" - I told you how it is. I NEVER got any (proper) reason for requesting my documents/KYC and NEVER got any timeframe for the refund. So, there is no way I could be sure about ever receiving my deposit back (you see, just saying "we will refund you" without any other information is unfortunately not too trustworthy). If I took money from you, and told you to give it possibly back someday, what would you call it?

 

[maxd]

@manttih , you didn't like their refund process so suddenly "they've stolen my deposit" and are "stealing my money". Obviously not the case so yes, "groundless accusations" is pretty much bang on I'd say.

Just because you think the deposit refund process should be this or that doesn't make it logical or workable. Go find a casino that does it your way if it bothers you so much. Accusing the casino of theft when clearly no such thing was happening is pointless, wrong and -- sorry to say -- makes you look a bit foolish.

It's easy to shoot off your mouth but I haven't seen you apologise for your false accusations. The casino came through and did the right thing, will you?

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@manttih , you didn't like their refund process so suddenly "they've stolen my deposit" and are "stealing my money". Obviously not the case so yes, "groundless accusations" is pretty much bang on I'd say.

Just because you think the deposit refund process should be this or that doesn't make it logical or workable. Go find a casino that does it your way if it bothers you so much. Accusing the casino of theft when clearly no such thing was happening is pointless, wrong and -- sorry to say -- makes you look a bit foolish.

It's easy to shoot off your mouth but I haven't seen you apologise for your false accusations. The casino came through and did the right thing, will you?

- Max

Sure, they did the right thing (eventually after writing to casinomeister), so I apologize.
You can remove this whole thread if you want to.

Also, how can I remove my whole user here in casinomeister forum? It seems everything is always the players fault / casinos are always honest and never wrong. So I don't want to keep writing here anymore, I'll stick to askgamblers when I have something to compain?

EDIT, I tried to check my account settings, but cannot find a place anywhere to close my account. As per GDPR, I would like you to "forget" me (remove any personal info, such as username, email and other).

 

[jasonuk]

If a player is self-excluded, shouldn't the system stop a player REGISTERING before making a deposit? As far as I know, curacao casinos don't usually have a license-wide self-exclusion, so I cannot know for sure if I can play at a certain casino without registering.

Firstly, worth pointing out that Curacao is going through a lot of regulatory changes at the moment - particularly around KYC.

Secondly, there is a double-edged sword on when they apply these checks as the earlier they do it, the more likely dishonest players will utilise them to circumvent the system. After all, we have seen a fair few threads in recent years of players who "accidentally" entered wrong details - only after previously using the correct details and being flagged or blocked from registering (i.e. committing player fraud).

Communication is key and they clearly dropped the ball on this one - glad you got it sorted anyway.