Your Input Please Are Betat being too inflexible ???

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OK, this is not in defense of casinos or anybody else but i think every player should ensure that all the details are up to date and the casino confirms that all is OK.

My rules to which is stick 1000% ever since i started online gambling:

- new casino registration --> get docs approved before even thinking to deposit
- any change in payment methods/address etc --> update casino details first and only carry on depositing once i have a confirmation email.

Up to this day following these 2 simple rules ensured I never ever had any trouble with deposits/withdrawals or delays of any sort. :thumbsup: :)

Agreed, and had I deposited from my new card, I would have sent them a scan of the card at the time, as I already have at other casinos.

What I didn't know was that they were going to use my withdrawal from a Neteller deposit to cover a visa deposit from a month or so back.

I offered to send a scan of my new card in chat. But i was told I'd need a letter from my bank. That's my issue here
 
Agreed Harry.

However things are slightly easier for us in the UK (for now :rolleyes:) with regards to electronic verification and not having to send documents at all. (in certain cases, not BetAt in this particular case)

IIRC my Betat full verification took about 2 hours, if that and (again IIRC) these same doc's were used at a later date to also verify my SV account. This I was impressed with.

The thing which puzzles me (again for us UK players) is some of the casinos I've played at have NEVER asked for doc's to this day, yet some insist even for a tiny withdrawal.

With new UKGC regs appearing 'daily' I am left wondering 'well what is the actual rule regarding KYC?'

Another thing I can totally agree with is the deposits Vs withdrawal rule, as much of a PITA as it can be it is a strict rule which I have come across many, many times during my lengthy playing 'career'.

Edit: Sorry to slightly stray but on another note, requesting / getting a letter from my bank would frustrate me also, not pointing the finger of blame or taking sides but a task I feel would be either costly as mentioned or easier said than done with banks pushing more and more for paperless accounts full stop.
 
Agreed, and had I deposited from my new card, I would have sent them a scan of the card at the time, as I already have at other casinos.

What I didn't know was that they were going to use my withdrawal from a Neteller deposit to cover a visa deposit from a month or so back.

I offered to send a scan of my new card in chat. But i was told I'd need a letter from my bank. That's my issue here

Yes Brian, i agree .... a simple scan of the new card should suffice, especially when the name and bank code are the same. After all they have the scan of the old card and can see that it has expired.

My post was more a general advice, sorry didn't mean to criticize you.
 
Yes Brian, i agree .... a simple scan of the new card should suffice, especially when the name and bank code are the same. After all they have the scan of the old card and can see that it has expired.

My post was more a general advice, sorry didn't mean to criticize you.

It hadn't actually expired. There's an odd story attached to that too.

Last month I got an email from BGT casino offering a SUB (same group as spingenie etc).

So I joined up, and attempted to make a deposit from my visa card, which was rejected, seemingly from their end. so I tried again, again it was rejected.

10 minutes later I got a text message from Barclays Bank saying they had identified a problem with my card, and a new one would be dispatched. I received the new card 2 days later..
 
You omitted that you sent the required scan of the card.

As for regulation and i'll keep this short (since some clever fold here called us out) - its a simple AML source of funds rule. PAyouts must be returned to the source of funds.

Say your card gets scanned on an ATM and sold on black market. Some hacker uses it to deposit and empty your account, plays a tiny amount (1x turnover) and asks to withdraw the balance to a different payment method or card... the rule prevents this money to be laundered as we will demand the funds to be paid out to the originating source.

This rule is as old as time and 15 years ago when i started working for largest British operators - it was the primary AML rule. Not that we have to justify to anyone whether it is regulation or not mind you - its in the terms and its our policy. Its a good policy at that and prevented many-a-crook.

Thanks

A replacement card for the same bank account IS compliant with the regulations as it is returning the money to source. This should never have been a problem because it was a replacement card for the same account, not a different card for a new account.

The regulation itself can't be adhered to when players deposit via MasterCard in any case, so surely the regulators would have forced Mastercard to comply with such AML rules if it was deemed that important. However, they chose not to, and casinos have chosen to accept deposit methods that force them to deviate from AML regulations when paying withdrawals.

Things would be even better if government forced the banks to use systems that allowed the seamless application of AML procedures by merchants, then the banking systems would cope seamlessly with this kind of situation, and customers would be told how it works.

In fact, the system CAN cope to some extent, but nowhere in all the accompanying text to getting a replacement card from my bank is it made clear to me what the procedure is for when I receive a merchant refund that resulted from a purchase made from the old card that has now expired, been cut up, and thrown in the bin as per bank terms and conditions. If players knew this, they would realise that this type of issue is only likely to delay receipt of the withdrawal in their account by a day or two, not cause it to be lost altogether. The problem is, we are not told this, and not all banks are trusted to deal with such a situation properly, and we know that on occasion banks DO lose our money, so we worry about doing anything that is not considered "normal procedure" in case the banks are even more likely to not know what they are doing and lose our money more often.

In my experience, when things like this have happened, and the worst offender was Neteller who kept replacing the correct sort code with the wrong one, my bank has not lost my money. However, I did get a message from my bank about Neteller always using the wrong sort code, and that they were fed up of sorting the issue out their end and that in future they would refuse the payment and asked me to convey this to Neteller. However, even if this is how a bank deals with a payment to an expired card, the money is not lost, it's sent back to source, who would then be obligated to pay via a working method.

There is always a need for flexibility because these systems don't work as they are expected to under AML regulations, so those applying AML regulations need to do so in a fair manner for the customer (this is also law in the UK). If a customer's money is lost due to a too inflexible approach to AML, the merchant has simply broken one law in order to remain compliant with another, and will be in trouble for a different reason.

There is an even worse scenario for British players. We are being encouraged to "shop around" and switch bank accounts via a regulated fast and seamless switching service. Using this can create a situation where a player is sent a withdrawal to an old account that has been closed automatically as part of this scheme. The scheme is designed such that everything is automatically moved over to the new account so that the customer doesn't have to go around informing anyone. This is far more likely to lead to money getting lost in the system where it is sent to the old bank, but because the account is now closed, staff will refuse to deal with the customer who's money they have, so they can only trust that the bank will pick this up and forward it to the new account as part of the mop up from the switch. This will lead to arguments because it will be the casino that has "lost the money", and they too will find they hit a brick wall at the old bank when trying to make enquiries as to where it went.

This kind of thing is happening all the time in the US, and vast amounts of money destined for players has simply vanished into the ether because processors have to change accounts and pathways so frequently that many changes happen during the time it takes the money to travel from the casino to the player. Of course ALL the casinos (bar the state licensed ones) involved in the US market are flouting AML in a big way, but they do so because it's profitable, and unless they are daft enough to leave one of their execs on US soil, they largely get away with it. This is a considerable level of flexibility being used to accommodate US players, regardless of the AML laws. From a players' point of view, it's a case of casinos being able to pick and choose whether or not to obey the laws in any given situation, so if they can be flexible in one situation, they can damn well be flexible in another.
 
You omitted that you sent the required scan of the card.

As for regulation and i'll keep this short (since some clever fold here called us out) - its a simple AML source of funds rule. PAyouts must be returned to the source of funds.

Say your card gets scanned on an ATM and sold on black market. Some hacker uses it to deposit and empty your account, plays a tiny amount (1x turnover) and asks to withdraw the balance to a different payment method or card... the rule prevents this money to be laundered as we will demand the funds to be paid out to the originating source.

This rule is as old as time and 15 years ago when i started working for largest British operators - it was the primary AML rule. Not that we have to justify to anyone whether it is regulation or not mind you - its in the terms and its our policy. Its a good policy at that and prevented many-a-crook.

Thanks

It was me who called you out, and I don't appreciate your shitty tone.

You have omitted to mention thats not what your support staff asked for, and you didn't say anything different earlier in the thread just had a rant about how you have to follow the regulations, implying that you agree with what the support staff had said. A little later it turns out the withdrawal was processed without that, so therefore you broke the regulations, or your support staff lied, and you went along with that.

As for 15 years in the industry, your posts come across as if they are written by a 15 year old in a mood because they have been caught out doing something wrong. Maybe you should hand over your public postings to someone with a little more professionalism.

Lets also not forget, the card was NOT the source of funds, the source of the funds was Neteller, so your rant about HAVING to return the payout to the source is a lie too, as you wouldn't let him send it back to the source, but to the Visa card, which was not the source of funding, obviously you are happy to break the rules when you feel like it.
 
I read the OP and thought this is where VWM needs to come to the rescue, Went to next page and he is already on it,

I have not had a good read but what I can say about having new cards is bull shit, I just had a repaemt sent due to activity unknown? So I ring up bank and explained are you stupid ? why send another card as I will will be back to sqaure one once I have to send deatails to sites with new details,

This is why I now use skrill at alot of sites, You still can get paid to the old card but its about waiting for a call or letter or ring up after a few days saying where is my cash,

Its not about regulations and wet money or shouldn't be about a few quid, We are not talikng about serious cash here and if sites used the other side of cards (U.K) than we wouldnt have this problem, I upload to paypal for years using 1 number, as that is linkned to my inside bank, You do that with skrill and evry transaction is a new tranacstion,
I will be back to update this shit
 
I read the OP and thought this is where VWM needs to come to the rescue, Went to next page and he is already on it,

I have not had a good read but what I can say about having new cards is bull shit, I just had a repaemt sent due to activity unknown? So I ring up bank and explained are you stupid ? why send another card as I will will be back to sqaure one once I have to send deatails to sites with new details,

This is why I now use skrill at alot of sites, You still can get paid to the old card but its about waiting for a call or letter or ring up after a few days saying where is my cash,

Its not about regulations and wet money or shouldn't be about a few quid, We are not talikng about serious cash here and if sites used the other side of cards (U.K) than we wouldnt have this problem, I upload to paypal for years using 1 number, as that is linkned to my inside bank, You do that with skrill and evry transaction is a new tranacstion,
I will be back to update this shit

This is one reason why I prefer to use Neteller rather than cards, but I am frustrated by the growth in casinos treating me like a second class customer simply because I use Neteller. Even 32Red have stated that they much prefer players to use cards than Neteller, and that they didn't want to inadvertently push players from cards to Neteller by such policies as weekend payments that only Neteller users would see any benefit from.

Other casinos are far worse, they blanket ban Neteller users from all promotions, only letting them play their own cash without any bonuses, nor even being allowed to claim other types of promo like draws or cashbacks. They then tell players to use a card, then they can take part in everything. I quit playing Ladbrokes when they issued the Neteller ban rather than bother struggling to get a card to work. Even now, I only have one card out of a dozen that works properly with casinos, and I ONLY use it for casinos, nothing else.

Fortunately, where I use it most is 32Red, and they are happy to send each and every withdrawal back to Neteller, even if I have used the card recently, so I have not had the issue of the card expiring and being replaced between making a deposit and receiving a withdrawal, so don't know how this particular bank would deal with it.
 
Fortunately, where I use it most is 32Red, and they are happy to send each and every withdrawal back to Neteller, even if I have used the card recently, so I have not had the issue of the card expiring and being replaced between making a deposit and receiving a withdrawal, so don't know how this particular bank would deal with it.

Yet the Betat rep states that is against the regulations, and casino's aren't allowed to do it (even though they do), funny that isn't it.
 
It was me who called you out, and I don't appreciate your shitty tone.

You have omitted to mention thats not what your support staff asked for, and you didn't say anything different earlier in the thread just had a rant about how you have to follow the regulations, implying that you agree with what the support staff had said. A little later it turns out the withdrawal was processed without that, so therefore you broke the regulations, or your support staff lied, and you went along with that.

As for 15 years in the industry, your posts come across as if they are written by a 15 year old in a mood because they have been caught out doing something wrong. Maybe you should hand over your public postings to someone with a little more professionalism.

Lets also not forget, the card was NOT the source of funds, the source of the funds was Neteller, so your rant about HAVING to return the payout to the source is a lie too, as you wouldn't let him send it back to the source, but to the Visa card, which was not the source of funding, obviously you are happy to break the rules when you feel like it.

I don't appreciate your tone to my casino manager either calling our "rubbish", now calling my tone "shitty" and tankfully for me, as the owner - I'm not bound by having to take any kind of tone from anyone. You wrongfully called "rubbish" on my casino manger without having facts at hand. I don't waste much time on pitchfork crowd as its a losing battle either way.

We neither broke any rules, nor lied about process so really, twist the events to your hearts desire - i wont stop you.

Simple reality is that this is NOT a manual process. These are automated matters. A system will pick up on a new card if any element of that card has changed. even a replacement card may have a different expiry date - to a bank, to processors, to our internal systems - its a new card.

OP was asked to declare the change and yes, general process is to get a bank letter declaring new card is issued to the same person, etc. Process yes, absolute rule in every account - no. OP sent KYC of the new payment method, KYC was accepted and that was that. As for whether we breached regulation or not, luckily for me - you i do not have to answer to.

5 years we've been around. I don't think we had 5 PABs in total. We're rated highly for a good reason and whereas i have no idea if you even have the chance to experience our service first hand, this business is driven b the general consensus of the masses - and that speaks in its own right: we're still here.

To anyone reading - we have 3 representatives here. If you have an issue or feel the process may have not serviced you right - any one of us will help at any time to ensure your treatment was right. All it takes is a PM.

OP, i'll take a look at the actual correspondence. If my team wasn't forthcoming enough - it will be addressed.

My team will not debate this thread any longer. Any questions, kindly PM any of us. Thank you
 
Yet the Betat rep states that is against the regulations, and casino's aren't allowed to do it (even though they do), funny that isn't it.

BETAT appear not to give a toss about regulations when it suits them, they have umpteen warnings from the UKGC.

Funny that the warning from 17th Sept 2015 said

failing to comply with a condition of its licence relating to specified management offices as it had failed to ensure that holders of personal management licenses (PMLs) occupied the specified management offices

BETAT were pulled up about it in this thread https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betat-warned-by-ukgc.72126/?t=72126 where Igor stated the following about that warning

Ah, no - that part related to the first sentence of my initial reply. I had adopted both strategic and compliance PML position to remedy the breach. While we corrected the breach, a single person cannot occupy two PML positions (specified management office is related to a personal management licence). Part of our condition was for myself to find a suitable Compliance replacement. This has of course been dealt with since (within 30 days)

Yet the UKGC have issued a new public warning, in April this year stating
The reason for this decision was because the Licensee had breached conditions of its licence by failing to ensure, by 30 November 2015, that the specified management office for Gambling Regulatory Compliance was occupied by the holder of a Personal Management Licence (PML) and by failing to ensure that each individual who occupied a specified management office held a PML. The Licensee also failed to comply with an ordinary code of practice as it did not, on several occasions, work with the Commission in an open and cooperative way. In reaching its view, the Commission took account of the actions the Licensee had taken to address the Commission's concerns during the review.

You can see all these warnings for yourself by going here
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and searching for "NRR Entertainment".

I am sorry but the fact remains there are many accredited casinos who do stick to regulations, and do not tell us things have been dealt with when they have not. They also treat all customers with respect, even when they are complaining publically. They are of a much much higher standard than this bunch of cowboys.
 
BETAT appear not to give a toss about regulations when it suits them, they have umpteen warnings from the UKGC.

Funny that the warning from 17th Sept 2015 said



BETAT were pulled up about it in this thread https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betat-warned-by-ukgc.72126/?t=72126 where Igor stated the following about that warning



Yet the UKGC have issued a new public warning, in April this year stating


You can see all these warnings for yourself by going here
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and searching for "NRR Entertainment".

I am sorry but the fact remains there are many accredited casinos who do stick to regulations, and do not tell us things have been dealt with when they have not. They also treat all customers with respect, even when they are complaining publically. They are of a much much higher standard than this bunch of cowboys.

I truly need to understand your obsession with us. Since you were caught out on P2P transfers years ago, we havent blocked your payout back then at all so i'm stumped at why the deep seeded negativity. If anything you should be thrilled with our service as we allowed a winning payout although we did not have to. The reason you had received that money in fact, was the integrity we take. Your case wasn't clear-cut - so we paid.

I've watched you negatively comment on any thread in relation to us since i remember. Bryan already created a separate thread on the UKGC one you pulled as you have posted that same reply in multiple threads of ours.

2 warnings - 2 cases, both for "failure to work cooperatively". While some operators get fined hundreds of thousands (£800,00 just a week ago) - we got a warning, no fines, no enforced changes - just a statement that frankly says "get a compliance manger that does no other job" and "do as we tell you because you have to". The two are connected - in fact in this case it was the self exclusion rule. UKGC doesn't allow indefinite SE for gambling problems. I CANNOT allow my customers to exclude for their lifetime even if they declare issues. I feel regulators are wrong - we refused to make necessary SE changes until we got threatened with our licence. My compliance manager did not feel comfortable with my disrespect for such a rule, new one had to be found.

Though, NONE of that is owed to you as an explanation. Not to you directly for sure, and not publicly either. Our customers are happy to query the warning with us - we'll gladly justify our stance.

You however, have not been a customer of ours for years, so even more so. You rant about us and how bad our practice is, without having any vested interests. If i did not feel the hostility in every post you pull up about it, i'd gladly debate why and how we crossed swords with UKGC. It's actually one of those debates i used to love taking to players and discussing if rules are there to protect you or are just senseless draconian enforcement that detract from good player service. That is, before the poison pens on the forum.

You are right - there are operators that do not have warnings, and isnt that so great for you and your peers - that sites like CM exist to allow you to choose where to play freely?

As for our role with regulators - Bryan and Max will confirm this: we had bent over backwards to get MGA to work with CM openly - spending months in facilitating back-forth communication between MGA head of Consumer Protection and the guys here, with good results.

Anyway - this is a downhill thread no matter what. Poison pen remains so, irrelevant of the facts. Any player in need for clarification on any case brought up here is free to PM me day or night. I'll be happy to discuss your account and our approach to business.

Thank you
 
I truly need to understand....
Absolutely ridiculous. I have sent money via p2p before on web wallets. I would think everyone has done so at some point. Hardly ever done it but I have. You are insinuating I have done something wrong when you say "caught" doing p2p. That is a ridiculous statement. You don't get "caught" giving someone money, it is allowed. What you do get "caught" for is doing something wrong, which I never have. You even said you paid out so why bring it up now? You are not allowed to share data on me in public by the way but you think you are above all regulations and the law.

You are just trying to attack me to deflect attention away from the bad warnings about your casino, and to discourage others from doing so (talking negatively about betat). Everyone can see you are the most highly unprofessional operator acting like this and the facts laid out for the UKGC speak for themselves. For a start you clearly have no problems posting private data about customers on public forums and that is illegal. Look here
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and read the following from the section

Do I have any responsibilities when posting personal data about other people online?

If you are representing an organisation or promoting your business interests then, even if you are doing so through your own social networking pages, you will be subject to the Data Protection Act

Please stop trying to pretend you are taking the high moral ground over everyone and take notice of the law.


My team will not debate this thread any longer. Any questions, kindly PM any of us. Thank you

OK
 
i disclosed data about a user "fun4all" - no personal data was disclosed since "fun4all" isn't a person. It begs the question why the war path, if we haven't interacted in years and you seemingly have no gripe since your winnings were paid up.

We do not influence your gaming life in any way and have not done so for some time, yet your name is on every thread that mentions us and you tend to go out of your way to smear my operations reputation. It just doesn't compute

Anyway, it's my birthday and its 5.15 AM. Forgive me if i bow out today. I had different plans for today.

Best

Igor
 
i disclosed data about a user "fun4all" - no personal data was disclosed since "fun4all" isn't a person. It begs the question why the war path, if we haven't interacted in years and you seemingly have no gripe since your winnings were paid up.

We do not influence your gaming life in any way and have not done so for some time, yet your name is on every thread that mentions us and you tend to go out of your way to smear my operations reputation. It just doesn't compute

Anyway, it's my birthday and its 5.15 AM. Forgive me if i bow out today. I had different plans for today.

Best

Igor

Happy Birthday Igor, enjoy your special day :)
 
I don't appreciate your tone to my casino manager either calling our "rubbish", now calling my tone "shitty" and tankfully for me, as the owner - I'm not bound by having to take any kind of tone from anyone. You wrongfully called "rubbish" on my casino manger without having facts at hand. I don't waste much time on pitchfork crowd as its a losing battle either way.

We neither broke any rules, nor lied about process so really, twist the events to your hearts desire - i wont stop you.

Simple reality is that this is NOT a manual process. These are automated matters. A system will pick up on a new card if any element of that card has changed. even a replacement card may have a different expiry date - to a bank, to processors, to our internal systems - its a new card.

OP was asked to declare the change and yes, general process is to get a bank letter declaring new card is issued to the same person, etc. Process yes, absolute rule in every account - no. OP sent KYC of the new payment method, KYC was accepted and that was that. As for whether we breached regulation or not, luckily for me - you i do not have to answer to.

5 years we've been around. I don't think we had 5 PABs in total. We're rated highly for a good reason and whereas i have no idea if you even have the chance to experience our service first hand, this business is driven b the general consensus of the masses - and that speaks in its own right: we're still here.

To anyone reading - we have 3 representatives here. If you have an issue or feel the process may have not serviced you right - any one of us will help at any time to ensure your treatment was right. All it takes is a PM.

OP, i'll take a look at the actual correspondence. If my team wasn't forthcoming enough - it will be addressed.

My team will not debate this thread any longer. Any questions, kindly PM any of us. Thank you

I'll keep this simple

You stated, quite clearly, Payouts must be returned to the source of funds. The source of funds was neteller. You returned the funds to a visa card. If that is true then either you clearly lied, or broke the regulations. The only other explanation is the OP lied. Which excuse would you like to use?
 
I would really like to no how many people that have been banned for actually speaking out on this site?

Igor you have to take the bad with the good, Banning people and getting arssy isnt going to help no one, Yes you have to stick up for your site but there is ways around this without arguing and banning,
 
I'll keep this simple

You stated, quite clearly, Payouts must be returned to the source of funds. The source of funds was neteller. You returned the funds to a visa card. If that is true then either you clearly lied, or broke the regulations. The only other explanation is the OP lied. Which excuse would you like to use?

Ok, let me make sure there is absolute clarity. Here is an example (not actual transactions - this is merely representative and not the case of OP in any way):

Deposit 1 (£100), done with credit card A - lost
Deposit 2 (£100), done with credit card B - lost
Deposit 3 (£200), done with Neteller - won £500

Withdrawal of £500 requested to Neteller.

----

Even though the 500 was won from a Neteller deposit, there are outstanding accounts that have contributed the funds in order of priority. As such 500 will be split as to:

Return £100 to Card A
Return £100 to Card B
Return £200 to Neteller

Excess can be withdrawn anywhere desired.

This is the black/white procedure. It's not implemented 100% of the time exacly as so due to many different scenarios in players experience and once payment methods are liked to the player that has undergone due diligence and payment methods themselves have been KYC'd the process is made more lenient for convenience as risk element is obviously lower.

If Card A cannot be paid do due to some reason or another then we will, in most cases, again depending on actual case request varying levels of diligence to ensure correct AML process is adhered to.

Again, once the new payment method is confirmed, for example by sending the new card scans back and front, more lenient approach can be afforded.

Really, this is hardly a debate. I respect that you feel this process is too much, or even that we somehow (i still don't understand how) we use it to defraud players (that's what you seem to be going for) - but it really is just a matter of sensible diligence. Sometimes, admittedly, red tape can be frustrating and we're more than open to review any case that gets stuck in bureaucracy. Notwithstanding, this poliy has excellent track record and is worth the tape for the amount of stolen cards that attempt to be laundered.

As you can see, it was relevant to users case as prior to the NT deposit, a credit card deposit was made. That card had to have the funds returned to, or new card validated.

Thank you

EDIT: as you can see, again, this is the third time you directly attacked myself or member of my team and upfront accused us of lying - merely because 1) you do not have in depth knowledge on regulatory processes of varying jurisdictions, UK not being the only one and 2) you do not have facts at hand.

As such you are simply being disruptive. I'll ask you to stop, one last time. If you need clarification, we'll happily give it without having to handle your attitude.
 
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I would really like to no how many people that have been banned for actually speaking out on this site?

Igor you have to take the bad with the good, Banning people and getting arssy isnt going to help no one, Yes you have to stick up for your site but there is ways around this without arguing and banning,

Banning? Who has been banned as a result of this thread?

We do not have the authority to ban people from CM - only admins can do that.
 
Ok, let me make sure there is absolute clarity. Here is an example (not actual transactions - this is merely representative and not the case of OP in any way):

Deposit 1 (£100), done with credit card A - lost
Deposit 2 (£100), done with credit card B - lost
Deposit 3 (£200), done with Neteller - won £500

Withdrawal of £500 requested to Neteller.

----

Even though the 500 was won from a Neteller deposit, there are outstanding accounts that have contributed the funds in order of priority. As such 500 will be split as to:

Return £100 to Card A
Return £100 to Card B
Return £200 to Neteller

Excess can be withdrawn anywhere desired.

This is the black/white procedure. It's not implemented 100% of the time exacly as so due to many different scenarios in players experience and once payment methods are liked to the player that has undergone due diligence and payment methods themselves have been KYC'd the process is made more lenient for convenience as risk element is obviously lower.

If Card A cannot be paid do due to some reason or another then we will, in most cases, again depending on actual case request varying levels of diligence to ensure correct AML process is adhered to.

Again, once the new payment method is confirmed, for example by sending the new card scans back and front, more lenient approach can be afforded.

Really, this is hardly a debate. I respect that you feel this process is too much, or even that we somehow (i still don't understand how) we use it to defraud players (that's what you seem to be going for) - but it really is just a matter of sensible diligence. Sometimes, admittedly, red tape can be frustrating and we're more than open to review any case that gets stuck in bureaucracy. Notwithstanding, this poliy has excellent track record and is worth the tape for the amount of stolen cards that attempt to be laundered.

As you can see, it was relevant to users case as prior to the NT deposit, a credit card deposit was made. That card had to have the funds returned to, or new card validated.

Thank you

Right, so you have explained your policy now, so its clear, why not do that in the first place instead of saying what you did, and arguing with people. I don't believe that is exactly how the regulations have to work as different casino's implement it in different ways, for example, MrGreen will refund usually to the last used deposit method, regardless of running totals of each method, and Skybet will refund to any payment method you have on file, but thats fair enough if thats the way you implement your rules, however that isn't what you said, and thats what I took issue with.
Not sure why you have mentioned you defrauding players, I certainly didn't.
 
Some sites prefer different methods, some sites only give bonus on certain depo methods, Some sites say have to pay back to the last source of payment while others state funds will go back to the original source up to the value of deposits than to where ever? Do they no relize people close banks accounts, Close down there e wallets.

When I use paypal to upload funds I have a number to is attached to my paypal account I just upload and funds are instantly there, Every time I do it with skrill it sets up a new direct debit every time, Not only that but I have to go by alot of security every time, Unless of course I do the standed payment but there is a higher fee for that,

I forget what site now but they are more than happy to send payment to where ever as long as I have used it previous, I really canot understand the big deal, I am not saying money laundering does not go on but even if some one was doing this than isnt that up to the player to look out for? At the end of the day casino are happy to take payment from any source just not pay out like that, And come on its not that hard even if you wanted to launder money as there is lots of ways around that, At the minute I canot afford to launder wash my cloths let alone any cash :) (ok not that bad) But the way casino look at it is we are all planning the next great train robbery

This is one reason why I prefer to use Neteller rather than cards, but I am frustrated by the growth in casinos treating me like a second class customer simply because I use Neteller. Even 32Red have stated that they much prefer players to use cards than Neteller, and that they didn't want to inadvertently push players from cards to Neteller by such policies as weekend payments that only Neteller users would see any benefit from.

Other casinos are far worse, they blanket ban Neteller users from all promotions, only letting them play their own cash without any bonuses, nor even being allowed to claim other types of promo like draws or cashbacks. They then tell players to use a card, then they can take part in everything. I quit playing Ladbrokes when they issued the Neteller ban rather than bother struggling to get a card to work. Even now, I only have one card out of a dozen that works properly with casinos, and I ONLY use it for casinos, nothing else.

Fortunately, where I use it most is 32Red, and they are happy to send each and every withdrawal back to Neteller, even if I have used the card recently, so I have not had the issue of the card expiring and being replaced between making a deposit and receiving a withdrawal, so don't know how this particular bank would deal with it.
 
Banning? Who has been banned as a result of this thread?

We do not have the authority to ban people from CM - only admins can do that.

Not this thread, But can you please explain why I was banned, I am more than willing to let people know

Edit:: Not ban from casinomeister but from your sites for speaking up on casinomeister
 
AML process when it comes to gambling demands the following of "fund return procedure" for non KYC'd methods, to the letter. In fact EU issued the 4th directive last year which is frankly, insane.

If every operator adhered to it to the letter we would need to do a credit check on every customer prior to first deposit and only approve KYC after 3 different sources of ID/address/ etc were provided

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No, not every operator adheres to the letter and not every country has the same process fore very operator.

I also wasn't arguing with you, i did not like you calling out my casino manager as talking rubbish and briefly clarified the source of funds rule without going into a long winded explanation, since the same is within our Terms. Clearly, a lengthy explanation is what was needed.

I'm glad you understood the reasoning for the process and that the OP had their case resolved.

Best

igor
 
Not this thread, But can you please explain why I was banned, I am more than willing to let people know

Edit:: Not ban from casinomeister but from your sites for speaking up on casinomeister

Not that its in any way relevant to this thread and your account closure has nothing to do with you being a member of CM. Additionally, reasons were explained to you 2 years ago (? possibly somewhat less), when it happened.
 
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