29th October 2004, 05:43 PM
Vegas Partner Lounge - Abusive
While I was in Las Vegas I received an email from Vegas Partners Lounge saying I was abusing their bonus. It was based on my “style of play”. They say “my style” is characterized by cashing in close to the minimum wagering requirements and taking minimum risk.
Here is my style and the rules I promote to recreational gamblers.
1. Don’t play with scared money. If you are afraid of losing, don’t play.
2. Budget each session in terms of dollars and time.
3. Play only as much bonus as fits with your plan. Don’t stretch for a bonus.
4. Play games where the house edge is known. Slots should be kept at a minimum.
5. After cashin, don’t deposit again till you are paid.
6. If you bust out, wait till the following day before returning. Cards and dice don’t have memories and one should not chase lost money.
7. Celebrate any win.
In this case, many of the Vegas Partner Casinos offer up to $3,000 per month. While a true bonus professional will stretch for that bonus, I was well short of maxing the bonus. I would only deposit $180 for a $27 bonus in accordance with Rules 2 and 3.
I can’t max the bonus because if I lost my deposit I was done (Rule 6). And if I won, I was done till I collected (Rule 5).
Now, I have played at these casinos without bonus on occasion, but under the new policy every deposit has a bonus. So this is how I usually play. I wager 25 to about 80 bucks at a time. Usually, I was wagering a $35 pass line bet and a $35 odd bet - eating up the bonus pretty fast. If I did well, I would play Jacks or Better Video Poker, but not single line. I was playing 4 lines at a time, which is riskier. I was trying to invest my profits to eventually hit a royal at the more speculative machine.
But playing this way means I was risking a lot. I did manage to stop with wins about 23 times out of about 44 sessions as per rule number 2 and number 7. My wagering requirements would be 2070, and I suspect I was always over 2100 and sometimes over 2500.
But I lost 21 times – so about half. But only once did I just barely lose. Every other time I busted out completely – rule number 1.
This was a high risk-betting scheme that I was happy to win or lose with because I was under control. I was not persuaded by more bonuses to increase my wager over my budgeted amount. I was not concerned when I was betting large amounts and lost or when I busted out multiple times in a row. It was all thought out before hand. Turns out, I am a little bit behind.
So my style? Not to take the maximum bonus. Bet aggressively losing the bonus and deposit half the time. Invest the winnings chasing the royal. And exceed the wagering requirement by some amount.
The question then - Is this style of play abusive? If it is, I believe any player who plays “under control” will be considered an abusive player. There is another word for the non-abusive player – compulsive.
I think that’s what all this bonus abuse discussion is really about. Casinos want players who play on tilt and if you are not one, they don’t want you. And that is why eventually Congress has to ban online casino gambling. What a shame. I am just getting into Texas Holdem and I am sure the poker rooms will get banned also.
PS – I used this same betting scheme in Las Vegas, but with Blackjack and VP last week. It wasn’t considered abusive.
1st November 2004, 12:18 AM
I had something simular happen. I played Jacks or Better and I played the 10 line game so i usually crapped out before i played the "requirements". I don't understand what they want.
1st November 2004, 01:03 AM
They want you to lose, and come back for more with your own money!
A reputable online casino will publicly smile as much when you win, as much as they privately smile when you lose... just like the real live land based one's do.
1st November 2004, 01:15 AM
They want you to lose more or they don't think you are giving them enough earnings to justify having you as a customer. That is just crazy. Basically they only want highrollers and everyone else should just stay far away.
1st November 2004, 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by sw2003
I wasn't high rolling but I was giving the decent action. But controlled action. I was never going to tilt. I think that is responsible gaming and I think VPL should encourage that.
Jayclub, the VPL rep here said something about me playing Video Poker. But as you can see, I only played that when I was ahead. But if they don't want us to play video poker, I wish they would just say so. I don't mind going by the rules, but VPL needs to be able to tell us the rules.
If the rules is play a whole lot at a lot of high risk games, they don't deserve the praise they have been getting.
Slotster I agree with you. A reputable casino will smile just as much, win or lose.
I hope VPL will come here so we can have a discussion of this bonus abuse allegation. I think that is something that would be helpful for all.
1st November 2004, 12:08 PM
From your 1st post it is obvious you are not a bonus abuser and not really an advantage player either. As you state you are a gambler who plays games with a low house edge and you have very good control over your emotions and bankroll.
If they really want to ban you then move on to a reputable casino who will value your custom.
IMHO once any casino raises any bonus or gaming issues I would not risk another deposit with them.
As for poker I dont think the casino even bothers to look at your play because they win every hand with the rake no matter which player wins.
And with your self control you have the potential to become a very good online player mate
1st November 2004, 01:14 PM
Slotster! You can't compare Landbased casinos with Online Casinos, the rules are completely different. Bonus abusers are a big topic with online casinos. So I can understand that an online casino will monitor it and then try to regulate it. However, your WR should budget for bonus abusers and therefore this statement doesn't make sense to me. If you did in fact stuck to your rules and sometimes went over the required WR it seems fine, the Bonus Abusers I know cashin right on the WR.
1st November 2004, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Chatmaster
Thanks for the response.
I think the comparison is somewhat useful. Landbased casinos give away promotions too. I am going back to Vegas in January and I will probably receive more in promotional value than VPL and they have to pay for a huge overhead. An online casino has basically a few servers and some software.
But the availability to play in your home is a real danger. That is why it is so importent that players play in a controlled manner. It has to be that way to keep it entertaining and not destructive.
I do think this concept of "bonus abuser" is something that should be discussed. I don't believe there is such a thing. There are those that play according to the rules and those that don't. If one plays according to the rules their is no bonus abuse.
There may be player abuse however. Trying to get players to play above their limits or using bonuses to attract the more compulsive is poor policy. VPL should welcome all who play fairly. At the very least they should come here and discuss what they consider bonus abuse and how players can avoid this bogus charge.
After all, they actually posted that they wanted to know what they could do better. Well being up front with the players about the requirements is something they can do better. Let's see if the will enter into a non abusive discussion about it.
1st November 2004, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by nafanny29
I have a registered domain name and I will be putting up a site one of these days that tell people how to play more controlled. Who knows when I will get off my duff and do it.
Gaming isn't my profession. I am a CPA by trade. Maybe that's where I get my emphasis on planning and budgeting. One thing I know. If one plays till the money is gone, the money will indeed be gone.
Thank you for your comments.
1st November 2004, 05:13 PM
Hi There All,
I would just like to clear up a couple of things:
Stanford has not been "banned". His accounts are all active, and he is welcome to play whenever he wants. No aspect of his playing or withdrawals has been or will be affected in future. He will just not be able to claim the 15/10/5% Deposit Bonus any longer. His account will be monitored, and if we deem his style of play to have changed sufficiently, access to our bonuses will be re-instated.
We do like our winners. We regularly send our players gifts, and flowers when they cash in a large amount. They are also advertised on our websites, and our Message of the Day.
Vegas Partner Lounge
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