Aladdin gold stopped paying

[Nate]

BUMP @ Tom again...

Sorry Dude, sometimes I think it IS important to answer pressing questions like these. As per my post above, It WOULD be for the benefit of those who play at ClubWorld to understand the proper reasoning or be informed in advance via T&C's of exactly what the charges are. As per Jasminebeds post - Retroactive fees are very uncool and can be solely determined by you... We have seen these charges go over $1000....

Nate

[clubworld]

Hello again,

It seems to me that the primary concerns you have are:

1. That the precise behaviour covered by this term is not explicitly defined
2. The retrospective nature of the fees
3. The lack of advance notice
4. That innocent players will be affected by this simply because they have won

Allow me to explain our thinking on each of these points:

1. This term was put in place to cover a very specific style of play and in order to make the term explicitly cover this it would have to be very complicated. The vast majority of our players just want to have a gamble and have no time for this kind of precise mathematical monitoring of their account, so applying a long and complicated set of terms to everyone just because a miniscule handful of players want to abuse our financial processing seems excessive.

2. The case of the OP is typical of the small number of players affected here. The entire depositing history on the account took place over the course of 2 hours. Applying the fees to the most recent deposit would be pointless as that would cover just one of the 57 deposits he made in that time. We have to apply the fees to all of the deposits as this is the problem the term addresses.

3. This term is right there on our website. Every single one of the tiny number of players who are charged the fees created their account with the sole purpose of abusing our financial processing, so they knew in advance that they may have to cover the processing costs. We don’t know if a player is going to abuse the processing in this way until after they do it, but the player knows in advance what they are about to do and so they are forewarned.

4. We can tell the difference between a winner and someone who is abusing our processing. Getting your entire month’s deposits back from your last $50 is fine. Win as much as you can and that is fine. Cashout more than you have deposited that that is fine also. I cannot state this strongly enough. Winning big is not a “certain strategy”, getting lucky is not a “certain strategy”. This rule was put in place to combat a very specific form of financial abuse and each one of the handful of affected players was individually reviewed.

I hope this helps you guys to understand where this term is coming from and when it is applied,

Kind Regards
Tom

[chayton]

57 deposits in 2 hours!!!!

@Clubworld, thanks for updating your siggie and taking the ASS off.

[Nate]

Thanks for clarifying the situation Tom.

I respect your opinion on the matter, but I would also like to establish WHY would somebody 'abuse' your system. I mean making 57 Deposits and losing them would be ok? I think this is actually where I am faltering in establishing the crux of the matter.

Would the individual benefit if they deposited 57 times and then withdrew once or numerous times? Is this just that the behaviour puts financial strain on your business because of the charges or is is because somebody is able to gain something.

Nate

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for clarifying the situation Tom.

I respect your opinion on the matter, but I would also like to establish WHY would somebody 'abuse' your system. I mean making 57 Deposits and losing them would be ok? I think this is actually where I am faltering in establishing the crux of the matter.

Would the individual benefit if they deposited 57 times and then withdrew once or numerous times? Is this just that the behaviour puts financial strain on your business because of the charges or is is because somebody is able to gain something.

Nate

It's clearer, but since the type of behaviour is so very specific, why not humour us with an explanation, however complicated it might be. With a proper understanding of what these players are doing, they may end up getting much less sympathy here when they complain about the charges.

I am also concerned that "precise mathematical monitoring" is simply a way to say that these players met the exact WR on a bonus, and then withdrew. This is NOT an "abusive strategy" that should lead to restrospective charges for "abuse of the processing system", even if it leads to a bonus ban after the final withdrawal.

Although casinos pay fees for processing that most players never see charged to them, there is not normally anything to gain by a player making repeated deposits and withdrawals, and this does not seem to give them any motive to do so, so why are they.

Given the $4000 weekly limit on withdrawals, the most a player can deposit and get back in 2 hours is $4000, with $16K being the most a player can retrieve in a month. Unless the player doesn't play on the deposits, the house edge will eat into any possible gains they could make by "abusing the processing system".

If the player does not wager the deposits, then charges could be applied there and then, with no need for retrospective action for past deposits lost or withdrawn earlier, as seems to be the case.

It is looking a bit like a "spirit of" argument, where players ARE playing on their deposits in accordance with the terms, but taking a retrospective view of activity over past weeks, the casino decides that this play was not "in the spirit of" the terms governing play on deposits needed to demonstrate an "intent to play at the casino" with said deposits.

If players deposit far too much for their level of play, why not just cut their limits so that they can no longer deposit such large amounts, and will have to demonstrate a higher level of play at these lower limits before they will be considered for having their limits raised back to the standard amounts.

[Jasminebed]

I do appreciate ClubWorld trying to make it clearer. I'm quite aware they do not charge it often, or there would be many more complaints!

I do recall one prior thread quite some time ago, but the player had been playing for a lot longer period.

I know of one gambler that only deposits $10 at a time. Sometimes many many times. I know a lot of B&M players that change all their bills to $5's, or won't put a $100 bill in a machine either.

Maybe a system that flags a dozen transactions within an hour? Maybe even after 3 for a new account? Lock the account and make the player discuss the issue before allowing further deposits. This would also fall in line with responsible gambling commitments as well. A manner of depositing more acceptable to the casino, or the fees associated with the player's preferred deposit/withdrawal methods could be discussed then.

I know that some of the Clubworld offers are usable unlimited times. Maybe lower the number of times they may be redeemed in a given period (day, week, month, your choice).

I'm sure with some thought, you can avoid this issue for the most part. Other accredited casinos seem able to deal with it without recourse to retroactive unknown fees.

Sometimes you might suffer a small loss, but there will also be players that lose 50 deposits in a row I'm sure. Sometimes there are just costs that are costs of doing business you can't pass on to the customer in that manner.

[Lucky_Diamond]

Guess you've already learnt your lesson, don't go where they only wanna screw you over! Take whatever you can from those guys and find yourself a new „playground“....<snip> blah blah blah