I don't like a Redbet bonus term

[Redbet-Andy]

I just want to know why you dont want to inform your players that they breach the rule when its possible to do so?

Is my question not legit?

Because I prefer the way we do it now and I think it's much fairer, and I'm basing that on a lot of experience and interacting with thousands of players.
If it ain't broke...


I broke my rule not to comment again didn't I?

 

[Jasminebed]

I in no way feel this rule is predatory. It's plain, simple to understand and in the Terms under Bonuses.

SirWegs, perhaps you do not understand what is usually meant here at CM by predatory terms. This is not whether is good for the player, or even a competitive offer.

It is where terms are conflicting, open to any interpretation the casino chooses to give them, or possibly impossible to comply with.

Mind you Andy, it would be nice to put a reminder in the weekend top up about the 50cent a line limit as well as the $5 bet limit.

Oh, and if anyone hasn't read the bonus terms in a while, don't forget that MegaJoker and Jackpot 6000 can't be played with your bonuses.

 

[SirWegs]

Because I prefer the way we do it now and I think it's much fairer, and I'm basing that on a lot of experience and interacting with thousands of players.
If it ain't broke...


I broke my rule not to comment again didn't I?

Okey, how can it be fair not informing your players when they breach the term only to do it after they won big. I just dont agree?

I think player in this forum believe its not possible to do because you say so, but they dont know how the system works. I do know how it works and I think every person in this forum would agree it would be more fair to inform the player right away instead of doing after they win big.

I think your rule is rouge as you dont want to inform the player, when you have the possibility to do so. I dont think any casino room should be accredited if they dont build their system accordingly. Trust me its not a big thing to do for the casinos.

 

[Redbet-Andy]

Okey, how can it be fair not informing your players when they breach the term only to do it after they won big. I just dont agree?

I think player in this forum believe its not possible to do because you say so, but they dont know how the system works. I do know how it works and I think every person in this forum would agree it would be more fair to inform the player right away instead of doing after they win big.

I think your rule is rouge as you dont want to inform the player, when you have the possibility to do so. I dont think any casino room should be accredited if they dont build their system accordingly. Trust me its not a big thing to do for the casinos.

 

[Tirilej]

Okey, how can it be fair not informing your players when they breach the term only to do it after they won big. I just dont agree?

I think player in this forum believe its not possible to do because you say so, but they dont know how the system works. I do know how it works and I think every person in this forum would agree it would be more fair to inform the player right away instead of doing after they win big.

I think your rule is rouge as you dont want to inform the player, when you have the possibility to do so. I dont think any casino room should be accredited if they dont build their system accordingly. Trust me its not a big thing to do for the casinos.

I wasn't sure if you had an agenda towards this specific casino. I don't doubt if you have that anymore.
You certainly knows more about this systems than we do, but I can't figure out your reasons.

I trust Andy and if he says they rarily have any complains and that they deal with it the way they seem is the best way, it's okey for me.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Cancel the bonus after a bet? You would like us to remove the bonus from any player who violates the terms? That's less fair than the current system IMO.

Explain fully how you would like it to work and I will genuinely consider it, if it's a fairer system and workable (bearing in mind we'd need NetEnt's help too) then we'll implement it. Always open to suggestions for improvement.

Also, if the CAG here think that it's a predatory term then it goes, I can't say fairer than that.

If anything needs working on, it would be a system that blocks players from placing a bet that is outside the rules. For example, they press "spin", and instead of spinning, they get a pop-up saying that their bet exceeds the max allowed, and to please adjust the stake to xx per line, xx per spin.

This would be fairer than removing the bonus or locking the account. It is something that all software providers should look into. Microgaming already has such a system in place, but it works only on coin size, so it is not foolproof. I have seen it running at GoWild. When I had a bonus, the most I could bet on Munchkins went right down to around £11, but with no bonus, the usual max bet of £75 could be selected.

Developing, and the making live, an upgrade in an hour is a recipe for disaster. Changes need to be tested thoroughly to make sure the fix actually works as intended, and also does not break something else. The more robust the implementation, the longer it will take.


For now, we have to rely on a fair interpretation of the rule on a case by case basis, like we get at 32Red, and clearly are going to get at Redbet too.

The rules in place used to be a vague "large bets consisting of the majority of the bonus balance", but it was discussed in the forum, and the consensus was that a fixed figure based either on an absolute, or percentage of the original bonus, should be used.

Accredited casinos tend to use one of these systems. Some are max bet of xx% of the bonus credited, whilst others specify a max bet amount, such as 6.25 at 32Red, and 5 at Redbet. Redbet have also added a line max, which many may view as an additional complication of what started as a simple rule.
A few casinos actually take the opposite view, specifying a MINIMUM bet. Ladbrokes, for example, specified a MIN bet of £10 at Blackjack if playing with a bonus. Lesser bets didn't count as they were seen as "grinding out the WR". Many also list excluded games when a bonus is used.

 

[SirWegs]

I in no way feel this rule is predatory. It's plain, simple to understand and in the Terms under Bonuses.

SirWegs, perhaps you do not understand what is usually meant here at CM by predatory terms. This is not whether is good for the player, or even a competitive offer.

It is where terms are conflicting, open to any interpretation the casino chooses to give them, or possibly impossible to comply with.

Mind you Andy, it would be nice to put a reminder in the weekend top up about the 50cent a line limit as well as the $5 bet limit.

Oh, and if anyone hasn't read the bonus terms in a while, don't forget that MegaJoker and Jackpot 6000 can't be played with your bonuses.

I agree its not predatory, but I think its rouge that the casino don't want to inform its player when they have the possibility to do so.

Jasminebed, dont you think they should inform the players when they have the possibility to do it? What is the reason they dont want to inform their players of the breach? I just dont get it.

 

[miso]

I just had to chip in on this one.

Wegs, the max bet rule is common, not just for NetEnt.
So yeah, in your opinion most casinos have roguish terms
No need to pick on Andy.

It is usually in the region north of 5 €. And let me tell you, in my five years
of playing online, it`s never been a problem.

One example -

I used to play a lot at Omni, they had max bet 5$ or equivalent, something around
4 euro. And yes, them being Playtech, with Spin and Max bet button next to each other,
I misclicked many times. Never had any hassle, but then again, I never hit anything
like 300x bet on the misclicked spin. If I did, I would have contacted support,
simple as that.

Bottom line, most genuine players don`t go batsh* crazy with € 25 spins.
If I could afford to play that way, I wouldn`t even be worried about bonuses tbh.

 

[Jasminebed]

It's very common for a terms violation, even at accredited casinos, to only come to light when making a withdrawal. Most casinos are not constantly monitoring our play, there are enough players that think they do to flip "lose switches".

I am happiest when you can't break bonus terms. I'm really not aware of too many places, including many casino I play and trust where this is possible.

I can't play Rival, I think they may have implemented this in their software if I recall correctly.

The only one that springs to mind is 3Dice. None of the games at the casino are disallowed (although some contribute nothing to wagering requirements) and table and slot limits take care of the rest. Enzo (their casino manager) has stated that bonuses can only be "abused" if casino managers can't do math

Some casinos do have different terms for VIPs.

 

[Nate]

Wow... So you know that Im right. First blaming it on Casino Software...

This would probably take 1 days work for one of your developer to do and you dont do it? Why wouldnt you want to inform your players that they breached your terms and conditions?
Only to do it after they won big?

I'm giving you a solution to be a fair casino and you ignore it?

You're just being a Troll now and refusing to acknowledge what we have ALL told you.

Seems the more people try and help you, the more trollish comments that appear...

I will refrain from feeding you...

Cheers,

Nate

 

[Webzcas]

I think your rule is rouge.

RedBet has RED rules.

Jasminebed nailed it:

It's very common for a terms violation, even at accredited casinos, to only come to light when making a withdrawal.

Moral of the story is, if accepting bonuses, READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS before accepting a bonus. It is simple!

 

[SirWegs]

You're just being a Troll now and refusing to acknowledge what we have ALL told you.

Seems the more people try and help you, the more trollish comments that appear...

I will refrain from feeding you...

Cheers,

Nate

I think this is quite serious, I dont understand why an accredited casino dont want to inform its player when it breaches a term?
Its only in the casinos interest that the player continue to play after a breach to lose his money ( the casino has 0 risk ).

If I bet 6 euro 100 times and then change to 3 euro and win 1500 euro on my 3 euro bet. Then I had breached the term before and the casino have the right to confiscate my money, let say a 100 000 euro win, would the casino let me keep it?.

If I bet 6 euro and get information sorry you breached our term and your bonus has been cancelled. Then I can to continue to play without bonus, this would be more fair, and should IMO be standard practice for an accredited casino.

 

[Nifty29]

I think this is quite serious, I dont understand why an accredited casino dont want to inform its player when it breaches a term?
Its only in the casinos interest that the player continue to play after a breach to lose his money ( the casino has 0 risk ).

If I bet 6 euro 100 times and then change to 3 euro and win 1500 euro on my 3 euro bet. Then I had breached the term before and the casino have the right to confiscate my money, let say a 100 000 euro win, would the casino let me keep it?.

If I bet 6 euro and get information sorry you breached our term and your bonus has been cancelled. Then I can to continue to play without bonus, this would be more fair, and should IMO be standard practice for an accredited casino.

You've had your answer from several sources several times.

What you're doing now is harassing a rep and pushing an agenda, both of which we don't take kindly to 'round these parts.

Time to move on IMO.

 

[slotplayer]

Come on huh, error trapping, fail safes and warning messages are all around us in every day life except with online casinos, with few exceptions.

Like I said in the videoslots post, casinos and the games are designed all wrong and really needs an overhaul.

I'm not sure why players routinely accept a laundry list of terms to follow that are clearly designed to favor the casino at every turn when with a little technology most of these could be eliminated.

I've also mentioned in other posts a couple times that when I was able to play the MG casinos I accidently hit the max button. They didn't have that max bet bonus % rule back then but if they did and had I won big I would not want to be hung out to dry over it or left at the mercy of casino management.

imo opinnion instead of defending a rats nest of rules and regulations, players should rally to get the casinos to pressure the game developers to incorporate fail safes to eliminate some of these issues.

sorry for the rant.

 

[Casinomeister]

@ sirewegs

You need to chill out and give your fellow members a bit more respect. There is nothing "rogue" about this term. It is clearly stated and when you sign up and accept a bonus, you have also accepted this term which you have read and agreed to. If you don't like it, TS.

Infraction for causing a negative vibe. It's a weekend. The rep deserves a day off, ok?

Thread renamed to something more appropriate.

 

[Jasminebed]

Surely not the whole day off? I don't recall ever asking Andy for help before... I've have questions or comments perhaps. But today I needed some, and while he's juggling responses here, I am sure other PMs and emails.

I had a game Elements go to that game is not currently available dropout, and it was quite a long time before I could get back in. For those unfamiliar with the game, it has those cascading reels after a win, and 4 cascades in a row trigger a bonus round.

I had been on the third drop when I returned to game. Long story shot, he posted a couple of pms, sent me an email addy to he could dig up the actual game logs, and I'm a satisfied customer. I was actually hoping it had failed to continue, but although I didn't see the results of the cascade, it was a dud and I wasn't out a bonus round, and the amount I had won on the round had been credited correctly. All before I would be out of bed on a Sunday usually.

If there's a five euro per drink offer on the I'll buy the beers if you get back to Malta I wanna know if I can pick the can and the right paper bag to drink it at the beach.

There better not be a max cashout either! Did anyone tell Andy Canucks like beer?

 

[bigjohn]

I havent played at Redbet.
After a bet has been put you could inform the player he made a breach. Why dont you do this?

Why wouldnt you want to inform your players that they breached your terms and conditions?

My question is why?

I just want to know why you dont want to inform your players that they breach the rule when its possible to do so?

Okey, how can it be fair not informing your players when they breach the term only to do it after they won big. I just dont agree?

I agree its not predatory, but I think its rouge that the casino don't want to inform its player when they have the possibility to do so.

I think this is quite serious, I dont understand why an accredited casino dont want to inform its player when it breaches a term?

That is the terms they have, that's why. Get over it dude.

 

[rainmaker]

If you bet over the mac bet rule then we will judge each case individually.
if it looks like a genuine mistake then we will often allow the winnings and send a note reminding players of the term for next time.

I can confirm what Andy is saying here.

I actually violated SEVERAL of Redbet's rules last weekend when playing with a bonus

Not only did I bet (up to) €10 per spin, but I did it on a Jackpot slot hehe!!

I have played with bonuses many times over at Redbet. Always within the rules, but this time I just completely forgot everything about bonus rules. I blame the alcohol.


Anyway. I contacted customer support and confessed my sins after playing my balance up to about €1300 (from a starting balance of €300)

And they basically told me...."We want to thank you for your honesty and we have decided that you can keep all of your winnings. Congratulations"

They also further said that I must remember to follow their rules the next time


(Also keep in mind that I did not use Andy in this case. Only ordinary support.)

 

[akrus88]

Feels like SirWig is on some kind of a witch-hunt on accredited casinos

Maybe he just likes to troot for underdogs.. no matter how predatour underdogs

 

[mrmark21]

I agree its not predatory, but I think its rouge that the casino don't want to inform its player when they have the possibility to do so.

Jasminebed, dont you think they should inform the players when they have the possibility to do it? What is the reason they dont want to inform their players of the breach? I just dont get it.

ZOMG none of us care! Otherwise Redbet would change the T&Cs... Troll

 

[SirWegs]

Feels like SirWig is on some kind of a witch-hunt on accredited casinos

Maybe he just likes to troot for underdogs.. no matter how predatour underdogs

Well, you just complained regarding another accredited casino?
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/bonus-problem-with-kerching-casino.55820/

 

[SirWegs]

ZOMG none of us care! Otherwise Redbet would change the T&Cs... Troll

I care

 

[mrmark21]

I care

We know you care. You've only said it about fifteen times... but NONE OF US care

 

[zanzibar]

1. Redbet is a good casino.
2. The term is not rouge, even though its "Red"bet, nor is it rogue.
3. However, Redbet is clearly not doing enough to prevent normal people who aren't anal terms-reading casino experts from breaking this rule inadvertently. A software-instituted bet limit and game restrictions while playing with a bonus is the only acceptable solution. It is simply not good enough for any casino in 2013 to not have this capability programmed into their systems.

I've seen nothing here from Redbet saying that they are even considering this solution that would save players from breaking the rule (or at least pestering Net Ent and/or Microgaming about it) and save them time and money in investigating complaints and dealing with them on a case by case basis. Think about it Redbet (and every other casino that does not do this), if players can't break a rule then you never have to spend time and money checking everyone to see if they did.

In general, I think many members of this forum have become so conditioned to the byzantine terms and restrictions placed on them by casinos that they exhibit some kind of bizarre Stockholm syndrome where they are prepared to stand up for their torturers, even when there is a legitimate complaint.

 

[mattsgame]

Can you point me in the direction of 1 complaint or 1 instance were Redbet has confiscated winnings without a good reason? or where Andy or any other Redbet staff has pulled some fluff out of thin air to make a term mean something other than what is clearly written just to wiggle out of paying?

I do not like these Max bet terms at any casino (accredited or not) but if they are there they are there.

We know why they are in the terms and that's because it only takes a select group of people to ruin it for everyone. It is how the term is used, interpreted and implemented that bothers me.