Does online slot RTP reset after a while?

[DreddBeat]

Hello.

I have read guides and info surrounding RTP, but I'm still a little confused about how it really works per session.

Example: I log in to an online casino, deposit £200, burn through Bonanza on £2.00 spins, no bonus and mostly receive micro returns. I feel crappy and log off. A few days later I log back in to the same site and try again. Is a portion of that £200 potentially waiting to be returned?

Does online RTP ever reset and how would we even know if it has or not?

 

[Reelsoffun]

No, Nothing is waiting to be returned maybe with the exception of a collatable type game but Its purely a mathematical calculation of wins / wagers *100 = RTP nothing "has" to be returned ( that would be compensated ) but eventually with enough play you will get near to the slots designed RTP.

 

[DreddBeat]

No, Nothing is waiting to be returned maybe with the exception of a collatable type game but Its purely a mathematical calculation of wins / wagers *100 = RTP nothing "has" to be returned ( that would be compensated ) but eventually with enough play you will get near to the slots designed RTP.

So if I log off and back on, it's a fresh start?

 

[jasonuk]

Unless there is stored value, slots have no "memory" and every spin is a fresh start.

If there is stored value (or "collectables" mentioned above), then the game rules will dictate how that modifies the game. If the collectable awards an temporary or permanent upgrade - be aware this may involve a different maths model (and thus RTP) to the original. So when a slot has a declared RTP, it may actually have multiple RTPs for the different phases of the game and those average out.

Similarly, be aware of games that infer "collection" that actually don't - for example the coin collection games with red, green and blue pots. The graphics show the pots getting bigger, but the game rules (which is the source of truth) say it's purely visual and infers no advantage.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Similarly, be aware of games that infer "collection" that actually don't - for example the coin collection games with red, green and blue pots. The graphics show the pots getting bigger, but the game rules (which is the source of truth) say it's purely visual and infers no advantage.

Which begs the question, why do they go to all that bother to have that on them? To which we all know the answer to give the player a reason to think its "due"....

Which begs another question of why do the UKGC ban auto plays etc but allow that predatory crap.........

Oh I know why, because they are clueless idiots.

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

So if I log off and back on, it's a fresh start?

it’s a “Fresh Start” everytime you bet

you know the RTP is based on all machines , all spins , and theoretically spinning for perpetuity (Law of Very Large numbers so it’s 96.4% after 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Not the 200 you do in a session !)

 

[bamberfishcake]

Which begs the question, why do they go to all that bother to have that on them? To which we all know the answer to give the player a reason to think its "due"....

Which begs another question of why do the UKGC ban auto plays etc but allow that predatory crap.........

Oh I know why, because they are clueless idiots.

Come on, let's be fair, the UKGC has never spun a slot, so how would they know?

I reckon they are as dumb as us to the inner workings of games.

You would like to think that a regulator knows its product inside and out, but it's clear by their cluelessness, that nobody there has ever had a session at the casino. Their only knowledge of a gambler's experience is gleaned from addicts and charities.

p.s. I forgot, they also do surveys, which they ignore the results of due to being busy posturing.

 

[The Reel Story]

 

[DreddBeat]

Well, I guess I'm still mostly clueless. I kept thinking that certain games were 'due' when they were not. Online casinos must love players like me.

 

[The Reel Story]

Well, I guess I'm still mostly clueless. I kept thinking that certain games were 'due' when they were not. Online casinos must love players like me.

They don't just love it, they rely on it

 

[jasonuk]

Well, I guess I'm still mostly clueless. I kept thinking that certain games were 'due' when they were not. Online casinos must love players like me.

It doesn't help in the slightest that we (as in UK players) had compensated fruit machines. Those were due in the sense they could get behind percentage, might be ready to pay a streak pot, or someone was aware (by fair means or foul) of a programming error and could get the machine to pay out wins it didn't intend to.

But of course, if people knew when they were due, that meant other people got the scraps - and as the jackpots went up I can imagine that got pretty brutal, pretty quickly!

In the online world, we have seen cases where programming errors have introduced some intriguing scenarios - but those are the exception rather than the norm. Otherwise the only time something is "due" is when it has a "must-drop" component (either by value or time), and good luck predicting that!

Game design - as a whole - has got more and more manipulative in nature as "just missed" triggers have got more and more blatant, much like a "big win" or coin shower can now be seen as low as 5x!

Even if a game has stored value, it doesn't mean that's it is "due" - I remember some of the Red Tigers of the day going hundreds of spins in a clearly gimped state. Only at the end of the track would you find out if you'd won something or lost 200x or more.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Bonanza and millionaire always ‘due’

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

Well, I guess I'm still mostly clueless. I kept thinking that certain games were 'due' when they were not. Online casinos must love players like me.

I think the only slots that were “due” are the old Pub machines from 1990’s when full of coins , even then it’s the same odds , the electronics were a little dumber back then

 

[Jono777]

Back in the day, I could make multiple AWP's (Fruit Machines) become due, even if they were far, far from due.

Crying shame I could not repeat this feat with online slots, far, far from it lol!

 

[jasonuk]

Back in the day, I could make multiple AWP's (Fruit Machines) become due, even if they were far, far from due.

Crying shame I could not repeat this feat with online slots, far, far from it lol!

Before my time, but from the discussions on Desert Island Fruits (and prior FME sites) over the years, it's incredible how many opportunities there were, and also how underhanded it all was (perhaps not surprisingly - money talks, and I don't mean the JPM £6er either).

The thing with online is there's far more "visibility" if something is going on (both in terms of accessibility of platforms, and volume of players), so the occasion something comes up - either people are going to be deadly silent about it, or it gets patched out (in the case of a bug) or withdrawn (in the case of a promotion) as word spreads and/or more people work it out.

Much like the tales coming out about AWPs now, maybe we'll hear similar tales about online in 20 years time.

 

[Schind]

it’s a “Fresh Start” everytime you bet

you know the RTP is based on all machines , all spins , and theoretically spinning for perpetuity (Law of Very Large numbers so it’s 96.4% after 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Not the 200 you do in a session !)

I don't get this argument about not being able to hit RTP after a low number of spins. It's a 96.4% game after one spin, 100 spins, 1,000 spins, 1,000,000 spins etc. The game doesn't start at a lower percentage and make it's way up to 96.4%.
I'm on 111.09% on Bonanza at Bet365 after just 3,500 spins this year. You may hit a 200x win on your first spin on any game. Granted, over time you'll almost certainly get nearer the stated RTP, but you don't have to do billions of spins to hit the RTP as some people appear to suggest.

 

[The Reel Story]

I don't get this argument about not being able to hit RTP after a low number of spins. It's a 96.4% game after one spin, 100 spins, 1,000 spins, 1,000,000 spins etc. The game doesn't start at a lower percentage and make it's way up to 96.4%.
I'm on 111.09% on Bonanza at Bet365 after just 3,500 spins this year. You may hit a 200x win on your first spin on any game. Granted, over time you'll almost certainly get nearer the stated RTP, but you don't have to do billions of spins to hit the RTP as some people appear to suggest.

It's not about hitting or exceeding theoretical rtp. It's about converging on it. In a highly volatole game, most people will either be under or over the TRTP of the game and it will normally take many millions or billions of spins to converge on it exactly.

 

[Schind]

In the online world, we have seen cases where programming errors have introduced some intriguing scenarios - but those are the exception rather than the norm. Otherwise the only time something is "due" is when it has a "must-drop" component (either by value or time), and good luck predicting that!

You can roughly predict it on some sites but with maybe 1,000 or more players spinning at any time you still have to be incredibly lucky to get it.
I haven't seriously played on them for a long time but, based on months of keeping records, on the Red Tiger must drop games on Paddy Power a couple of years ago the hourly jackpot used to go with two minutes or less to spare 90%+ of the time. On Betfair the most common time was with 20 to 15 minutes to spare. (I've just logged in to Betfair and see the last hourly win was 15 minutes ago so still in the same area based on a sample of one!).
I only managed one hourly win myself when I played them but don't bother at all if there's more than 30 minutes to go if you're chasing that prize. It happened less than 1% of the time if I recall correctly.

 

[Schind]

It's not about hitting or exceeding theoretical rtp. It's about converging on it. In a highly volatole game, most people will either be under or over the TRTP of the game and it will normally take many millions or billions of spins to converge on it exactly.

I get that but, on some threads, some people have stated as fact that you're not going to get near RTP after a few thousand spins. Patently false as, if you're lucky, you can.

 

[The Reel Story]

I get that but, on some threads, some people have stated as fact that you're not going to get near RTP after a few thousand spins. Patently false as, if you're lucky, you can.

Oh yeh, for sure you maybe get near it just by chance. But it's highly unlikely you will stay near it (if you continue to play)

 

[Siohmy]

Which begs the question, why do they go to all that bother to have that on them? To which we all know the answer to give the player a reason to think its "due"....

Which begs another question of why do the UKGC ban auto plays etc but allow that predatory crap.........

Oh I know why, because they are clueless idiots.

I think this is the latest primary evidence of just how morally bankrupt the online slot industry is.
As you say this is highly predatory and borderline illegal. I’m sick of the increasingly nasty way slots are being designed and presented with providers thinking, correctly as it seems, that any corrupt game mechanisms can be covered by a few words in the help section which is often as hidden as they can possibly make it.
I’m sorry but if there is anyone who visits this site who practices this sort of thing then you can frankly sod off.

 

[jasonuk]

I don't get this argument about not being able to hit RTP after a low number of spins. It's a 96.4% game after one spin, 100 spins, 1,000 spins, 1,000,000 spins etc. The game doesn't start at a lower percentage and make it's way up to 96.4%.

It's not about hitting or exceeding theoretical rtp. It's about converging on it. In a highly volatole game, most people will either be under or over the TRTP of the game and it will normally take many millions or billions of spins to converge on it exactly.

Since @Siohmy has mentioned bankrupt mechanics - remember this explanation sets aside stored value mechanics, which do start at a lower percentage.

We've mentioned before the notion of "first spin TRTP" - slots with no stored value will have a first spin TRTP equal to the overall TRTP (so 96% on the first, 96% on the hundredth, 96% on the millionth etc), however slots with increasing nastiness of stored value mechanics (think Red Tiger, BTG etc) those first spins could be closer to 50% than 96%.

So each session will converge on 96% eventually, but if you replaced that with one billion "first spins" the fsTRTP will be lower. By extension if ten million players do a hundred spins - which is much more likely given the modern churn of slots - you get say 93% instead, which results in a 96% TRTP slot with an 7% house edge...

Less of an issue if the cycle is 10 or 25 spins, but there are stored value nasties out there where you could be talking hundreds or thousands of spins to even start converging on TRTP. This isn't exclusive to 96% slots either, I've seen some 92% slots starting at 86-88%... the greed knows no bounds.

Except for WH... they'll give you free spins on the nastiest stored value traps, so you'll never get 96% RTP - you'll get the 50% for those first 5 spins and then it resets for the next block of free spins.

 

[Humphrey]

Just revisiting the Playboy thing again it occurred to me that many moons ago there was talk of outlawing slots in which the player could only win a jackpot during a feature.
In other words they were saying that a jackpot should be available to win during the normal game play.
With that in mind the Playboy slot was one such slot - no jackpot possible on normal game play.
I wonder if that's something to do with its removal for the UK?

 

[Humphrey]

Just revisiting the Playboy thing again it occurred to me that many moons ago there was talk of outlawing slots in which the player could only win a jackpot during a feature.
In other words they were saying that a jackpot should be available to win during the normal game play.
With that in mind the Playboy slot was one such slot - no jackpot possible on normal game play.
I wonder if that's something to do with its removal for the UK?

Sorry, wrong thread.