Forum Rule 4.4

[Roanan]

Casinomeister forum rules:

4.4 - Linked Websites The linked pages must not advertise casinos listed in the Rogue Pit. If Casinomeister subsequently rogues a casino, a webmaster is not obligated to remove that casino but will seriously consider its positioning.


The discussion regarding webmasters promoting rogue casinos has come up a few times, most recently started by my 'attack' on Gamtrak. Our history, plus her personality, pretty much guaranteed the kind of hostility that was shown.


I do NOT wish this thread to be in that particular tone.


I wish this thread to be a polite reminder to members and webmasters that these casinos are in the rogue pit for a reason. Affiliates DO have a responsibility to ensure that their patrons are aware of a casino's credibility and must not advertise those that are known to be crooked.


Of the 'green' members who have logged in during the previous week, the following promote rogues:

casinobonusguy
Acerevenue: Silver Oak, Planet 7, Royal Ace

livefree247
Acerevenue: Silver Oak, Royal Ace

Pam7122
Acerevenue: Silver Oak, Planet 7, Royal Ace
Virtual Group: VIP Lounge

metaxa
Joyland

Chipeez
Joyland

zuga
Virtual Group/Netsurf: 123BingoOnline, BingoKnights
(although these bingo rooms are not listed in the rogue pit yet, I have proven that Netsurf is part of Virtual here)


Webmasters, please remove the offending casinos from your sites.

Thank you

[Simmo!]

I think to be fair, a lot of people won't be aware that Acerevenue is tied to Virtual at this stage. Early days on that one.

I'd suggest a PM to the affilites in question suggesting they remove the offending casinos would be a better first step than just going out in public. A lot of affiliates run multiple sites, employ staffers or buy and sell off each other so in some instances it could be oversight, or remnants of old stuff.

I'd also stress that Casinomeisters list is subjective too. There are some occassions when opinions will differ on what constitutes a rogue which is witnessed by the number of players here that still go and deposit ast some of them. Note i said "some" LOL. Many are indisputable of course, but labeling - or suggesting - an affiliate is rogue may not always be a correct course of action.

I'd suggest PM them, give 'them a week to respond, then maybe do the second step if you don't feel you are getting through.

[Roanan]

I think to be fair, a lot of people won't be aware that Acerevenue is tied to Virtual at this stage. Early days on that one.

I'd suggest a PM to the affilites in question suggesting they remove the offending casinos would be a better first step than just going out in public. Give 'them a week maybe, then maybe do the second step if you don't feel you are getting through.

The tying of Acerevenue to Virtual may be new, but they've been in the rogue pit for a while now.

Plenty long enough for the majority of active members to know this.

[spiderlegz]

Like they wouldnt know that Acerevenue has ties to Virtual. On what planet do they live? Out in the public directly I say.

Also not directly this rule, but something could be done to the constant boardspamming with useless comments pushing your links by some affiliates.

[Roanan]

Apparently some users seem to love rogues:

topboss

This 'affiliate who has been lurking at CM for the best part of 10 years' has entitled his index:

'A to Z Index of Online Casinos - Listings of reputable online casinos'

yet I find these listed:

123BingoOnline
21nova
Bingo Knights
Casino Fortune
Class1
Cirrus
Cleopatras Palace
Club Player
Cool Cat
Giant Vegas
Golden Palace
Indio Casino
Joyland
Mapau Casino
Miami Beach
Palace Of Chance
Royal Dice
Sierra Star
Silver Sands

[Casinomeister]

I do NOT wish this thread to be in that particular tone.
...

But it will be if you use this thread to point fingers at one another.

Like Simmo said, PMing members is the way to go on this. Sometimes webmasters have their reasons for promoting these properties. Simmo and I occasionally check out the linked webmaster sites via sigs and give heads up to webmasters who are violating the 4.4 policy. We don't get around to it as often as we should.

[Webzcas]

Can I also point out that leaving a visitors message on a members profile is pretty much as public as making a post in the forum.

BTW Topboss is a SHE

[topboss]

Roanan , I saw the next attack you have done on me regarding the promoting of what you deem to be rogue sites, and quite frankly I want to know what the hell your problem is with me, because from the day I came onto this board you have gone out of your way to ruin my reputation with your vicious posts.

I acknowledged and accepted what you had to say about the Virtual Casino Group, and despite the lies you are posting - I gave my word that i was removing them and that is exactly what I am doing. In fact seeing that you seem to consider yourself as the self appointed watchdog of the Casino Meister forum - did you actually do a simple thing like pressing the refresh button when you landed on a page that previously had Cirrus Casino etc on it, and did you also notice that one half of Topboss Group is an old frontpage site and one half is a dreamweaver site. As you have only been in the industry for 2 years - you obviously have no clue what it is like trying to manage 120+ sites and convert each one of these sites overnight from one software to another one. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT!!

Therefore you WILL still find some of the Virtual Group on some of the old pages and hell yes, more than likely on the new pages too, because I am still getting to them. Despite what you might think - I have a business to run , I manage an office full of staff who have been given the instructions to remove these casinos and they will be removed - NOT because you say so, but because I say so, and if it takes me a couple of weeks to remove them, then so be it - who the hell are you to go around making the posts you are making about me. I can promise you, that you will most certainly not be in this industry longer than 4 years with your stinking attitude. Mark my words!!!

With regards to other casinos that you have added to your little sleuthing list - with respect to Casino Meister - not everybody agrees that all of the sites on the rogue list are true rogue - eg Golden palace as an example was rogued due to their dodgy advertising not because they don't pay players. It depends on exactly why they have been rogued and I will make my own decisions which casinos go on my sites and ONLY me - not you or anybody else for that matter.

Simmo and Casino Meister are quite right. Just because they are on the rogue list does not mean the members are not allowed to promote them, but must use their discretion. When I have done wrong I am the first to admit it and will remove casinos when deemed necessary.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from making further posts in an attempt to damage my reputation because you will find yourself with a Libel law suit on your hands before long.

[Webzcas]

Roanan whilst I realise you rightly in my mind detest the Virtual Casino Group, sometimes it is prudent to not be so aggressive in your manner of posting, particularly as Casinomeister is actually a professional board. I can therefore understand why TopBoss has responded as she has.

I have known Heather for a number of years and I consider her a friend and hope one day to have the pleasure of meeting her in person. I agree with you that no webmaster should promote places such as the virtual group. However your very public attack on Topboss not just in this thread, but also her introduction thread and also on her visitors messages within her profile is uncool in my view.

As she has indicated, she is removing all traces of the virtual group from the network of sites she runs and that imo is a good thing. But I am also inclined to agree with her, that this is something that cannot be done at a flip of a switch, especially when you have the number of sites that Topboss operates. I myself have a handful of sites and it can take me days if not weeks to make sitewide changes. Ask Bryan or Simmo LOL

What I am getting at is, I don't like to see anyone being ganged up on to the extent that they feel they have to question their participation here on Casinomeister.

This forum and site is widely respected throughout the industry and in my view, the more players, webmasters and industry figures that post here, the better. Because it then gives us collectively the chance to get the message out as to what casinos are good and which casinos are bad. Thus educating all who frequent here.

The fact that topboss is in the process of removing the virtual group is a good thing, but by continually attacking her for promoting them, even though she is removing them from her properties is not exactly the right approach.

Your reasoning is good, but your approach and delivery is off the mark somewhat in my view. I am also not perfect, but what I will say is, sometimes the softly softly approach is the best policy.

I personally hope Topboss decides to continue to participate here. But please everyone, please tone the attacks down.

[Pinababy69]

Tone the attacks down? I am absolutely dumbfounded by what I'm reading here. I actually had to go back and read the "in defense of Topboss" posts more than once, just to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding.

Does anyone remember the 24 page thread started by the affiliate manager for Gambling Wages? You know...the one where EVERYONE had a go at him, including myself? Here's a link to the thread in case you need to refresh your memories:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...036-hello.html

And how about this 13 page thread, where Gamtrak was raked over the coals for promoting Virtual? Anyone remember that?

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...sponsibly.html

And don't get me wrong...I'm not defending nor standing up for Gamtrak. I have zero love for the woman, and the feeling is mutual...but I'm trying to make a point here.

Here's a quote by Bryan towards webmasters who promote rogue shitholes. It was from the Grand Prive thread, but it really says it all:

Affiliate marketing is just that - it's marketing. I know this won't sit well with a lot of webmasters but it's your own damn fault for promoting a casino group that has been in and out of the rogue pit for years. What did you expect? An honest deal? C'mon - quit your whining and move on.

Affiliates that promote operations that are mismanaged, or have flaky operators should ask themselves this: why are these worthy of promotion? What did you expect?

I wonder if Topboss ever promoted Grand Prive and is now one of the webmasters who isn't "happy" with the settlement offer? Toss GP in the rogue pit, but promote Virtual? Yeah okay.

And let's not forget the thread where Daera was complaining how her stats drop at each month's end with Gambling Wages...poor thing. Besides Robwin, she was left pretty much alone...although Webz, you did seem to agree that promoting them is wrong, plain and simple.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ing-wages.html

Here's a quote from AussieDave that really highlights the point I'm going to get to at the end of this post:

Hi all,

I'm slightly confused...

Cast your minds back three months, it was Gamtrak promoting Virtual Casino Group who effective brought the AU down before it opened.

In the following thread, another CM member is having a go at GamTrak over promoting VCG - http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...liates-13.html

It's certainly not the first time people have had a go at Gamtrak for promoting casinos.

So I'm some what bemused as to why two different webmasters are being treated differently, when they are both actively promoting VCG Casinos.

IMO as long as Daera holds and open account with Gambling Wages and allows people to post links to these crap holes on her site(s), it's hypocritical to target GamTrak for doing the exact same thing.


Cheers

Dave

I'm somewhat "bemused" as well Dave. I can dig up a dozen quotes from Bryan himself, and many others on here...who not only question players, but affiliates who promote these crooks. Things like asking if they're brain dead, or what they've been smoking? And all rightfully so. It can't be stressed enough how bad these places are for the PLAYER, and sometimes people (players and affiliates) need to be smacked upside the head with a sledgehammer before they get it.

So..what I want to know is....where's the list of affiliates that it's "okay" to call out for promoting Virtual? And the list of those affiliates who are "hands off"? Because that's the way it's looking here. Roast, toast and flambe the Gambling Wages affiliate manager for 24 pages....and tar and feather Gamtrak for promoting Virtual Casinos. But Topboss/Heather? Oh no....it's hands off. Well, I'm sure she's a lovely person..I don't know her. And while I think it's commendable that she's decided to remove the Virtual properties from her website...what's with the kid gloves? And warnings to tone it down?

Please don't tell me there's a double standard in effect here? That it's only okay to call out and shame those who no one likes? If it's someone who's an "insider" or who has friends in higher places....it's shhhhhhh!!!

And before anyone replies, they may want to go back and read some of the posts in the links I posted...maybe even some of their own posts.

Just for future reference you understand...I wouldn't want to step on the wrong toes...geesh!

Oh...one last point. While I understand that the definition of rogue may be subjective, and open to interpretation...it's Virtual we're talking about here. Not opinions..but facts!! And lawsuits? Yeah okay Topboss...I'd be happy to provide you with my full name, address and phone number...sue away.

EDIT: Here's an idea for those webmasters/affiliates who are OFFENDED by being called out because they don't mind sending players to shitholes like lambs to the slaughter. Don't put a link to your site in your sig or on your profile page. Problem solved!! I can't believe how pissed I am by this...if I had more time, I'd sit and go through every friggin link I could find in every webmaster's signature/profile page.