Spin Palace doesn't want to pay me

[chipsalex]

Hi all,

I recently won 800$ playing slots at this casino. This was my first deposit so I got a 100% bonus which I was told that I had to wager a certain amlunt before cashing out.
I did do this and then cashed out.
2 weeks later they send me this email:


Following a review of your account, we have identified that you are in breach of the casino’s standard Terms, as per Term 11.
- Please refer specifically to the following clause:

VIII) If the Player has not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, the Player has played in a professional sense or in concert with other Player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.)

Please be advised that your initial deposit of €100 has been refunded and that all winnings or bonuses gained as a result of said deposit have been confiscated.

They told me that I could contact ecogra to have the reversed which I did.
They sent me this email:

We have investigated your query with Spin Palace Casino and have made the following findings;

Your account has been linked to other accounts
This is in breach of the following clause in the published Terms and Conditions:
VIII) If the Player has not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, the Player has played in a professional sense or in concert with other Player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.)
· Your $100 deposit has been refunded.

We have reviewed the links and are satisfied that the operator has acted according to their Terms and Conditions in locking your account at Spin Palace Casino. For security reasons we are not at liberty to disclose the nature of the links.

Is this standard procedure?? I thought this was a good casino!!
Are they allowed to just say these lies to anyone?
No explanation at all, just "Your account has been linked to other accounts".

What am I suppose to do to get my money back??

[vinylweatherman]

Hi all,

I recently won 800$ playing slots at this casino. This was my first deposit so I got a 100% bonus which I was told that I had to wager a certain amlunt before cashing out.
I did do this and then cashed out.
2 weeks later they send me this email:


Following a review of your account, we have identified that you are in breach of the casino’s standard Terms, as per Term 11.
- Please refer specifically to the following clause:

VIII) If the Player has not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, the Player has played in a professional sense or in concert with other Player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.)

Please be advised that your initial deposit of €100 has been refunded and that all winnings or bonuses gained as a result of said deposit have been confiscated.

They told me that I could contact ecogra to have the reversed which I did.
They sent me this email:

We have investigated your query with Spin Palace Casino and have made the following findings;

Your account has been linked to other accounts
This is in breach of the following clause in the published Terms and Conditions:
VIII) If the Player has not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, the Player has played in a professional sense or in concert with other Player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.)
· Your $100 deposit has been refunded.

We have reviewed the links and are satisfied that the operator has acted according to their Terms and Conditions in locking your account at Spin Palace Casino. For security reasons we are not at liberty to disclose the nature of the links.

Is this standard procedure?? I thought this was a good casino!!
Are they allowed to just say these lies to anyone?
No explanation at all, just "Your account has been linked to other accounts".

What am I suppose to do to get my money back??

This looks like a veiled accusation of what casinos call fraud. This business of "links to other accounts" is an accusation that you are acting with a group of players. This could be a small group, perhaps a few friends pooling their funds together to "do sign-up bonuses". Profits and losses being shared between the group, and with each member of the group joining the casinos concerned.
This is where the "professional" bit comes in, they are saying that this group you are supposed to be part of are playing with a view to making a living from playing the sign-up bonuses.

The "links" are those that should NOT be there if you were each playing individually. Some links can be a matter of opinion, but others will be fact, such as carelessly sharing a deposit method AND ACCOUNT between group members. For example, you use a card to make your deposit, and another member of the group uses the SAME card, yet is supposedly nothing to do with you.
Links that are more a matter of opinion are those where the casino says players played "in a similar pattern", but there are no direct means of linking them. These players COULD be co-ordinating their efforts over the phone, for example, but could equally well REALLY be individual players who have been members of the same forum, and have read a particular strategy, and independent upon each other, decide to descend on the casino and try it.
Other factors involve the casino using statistics, for example, if there is a sudden DOUBLING of their customer base from a particular area, where this doubling has been from a base that has taken MONTHS to establish, they will first look to see if any of could be down to factors such as marketing (they might have blitzed the area with CDs for example), if they can find no explanation, they will take the view that these recent new accounts need further investigation. They will then look VERY deeply into them, using the "back-end" software, looking for connection patterns that are absent from what they consider as their normal recreational player base.
They might find that you all played the SAME slots, with the SAME bet, and in the same WAY - and that you all withdrew as soon as possible after making WR - they would conclude that you were acting as a "club", even if you did nothing overtly fraudulent, such as sharing deposit methods or giving false details.
Other factors are down to the internet. They check your inbound IP addresses to see if they are consistent with your registration details. It's not accurate, but they can tell if you all signed up at the same "house", yet gave different details. "house" can mean, as far as their end is concerned, ANYWHERE that uses a common shared internet connection, and could be a workplace, university campus, or a house split into "bedsits".
Some players who are actually INNOCENT can sometimes get caught up in a "fraud ring" because they are "in the wrong place at the wrong time" in internet terms. They cannot therefore be separated from the "ring" when a group of accounts is checked.

eCogra decisions can be appealed, but it is a case of disproving the evidence against you without being able to see that evidence. Players are expected to trust the rulings of eCogra, and member casinos WILL often find that eCogra overturns a CASINO decision, so it is not really a case of eCogra simply "rubber stamping" the casino decision.
You may be able to ask Max here if he will take a PAB on this, even though eCogra have already ruled against you. PAB is the "Pitch A Bitch" service of Casinomeister, and is an alternative mediation service. There is no guarantee the outcome will be any different, and if you ARE up to something, you will be "outed", and may have your Casinomeister account banned.

In order to appeal, you need to think of any reason that you might have become entangled in a ring of "professional players", because the casino certainly thinks this.

Ultimately, you can take the casino to civil court, but this is rarely done, even though the evidence against you would have to come out into the open. Going to court is usually more expensive than the money at stake, and is not guaranteed. I have, however, noticed an increase in CASINOS making THREATS to take PLAYERS to court to cover "Ill gotten winnings".

[maxd]

Hello chipsalex. As VWM has pointed out your primary resource here at Casinomeister for situations like this is the Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) process, which I manage for Bryan, the site's owner and webmaster.

If you're interested in finding out what the PAB process entails you'll want to read our Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

If you've read the FAQ, are still interested in doing such a thing, and still qualify to file a PAB per the terms of the FAQ then proceed to fill out the PAB form at the end of the process and send it in. I'll look it over and take it from there.

So, yes, you can still PAB here even though eCOGRA has already ruled against you. Of course we can't promise that our decision will be any different than theirs but our investigation is completely independent of whatever they have already done so there's always a chance we'll see things differently.

That said if our investigation reveals that you have falsely presented your case here or to us in the PAB then you most definitely will be 'outed' and your membership at Casinomeister will likely be forfeit, for life. Since your issue started here on the boards such an action would be announced here in this thread as an explanation of what happened and why.

Finally, as spelled out in the FAQ, it is unwise to continue to post on the forums concerning an issue that you wish to pursue via the PAB process. In general doing so will kill your chances for doing a PAB.

I think that about covers it. Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Casinomeister.com, Player Grievance Manager

[Casinomeister]

Well - we're still waiting...

Or is this just another attempt at slandering a casino in public? You just signed up - skipped over the guidelines for dealing with complaints that you agreed to when registering - and just went ahead and trashed one of the accredited casinos here - who is also a member of the forum.

Why is it that newbie members think they are above the rules we have for this forum - specifically when dealing with complaints? Most everyone else abides by them. Did you contact the casino rep like you were supposed to? If not, why not? Or are these rules not applicable to newbie members?

Yeah, I'm pissed off. It's people like you who cause this "Complaint Section" to be shut off from newly registered members. It's been done before - I'll do it again.

I want to see that PAB within the next three hours or you can kiss your membership goodbye.

[spiderlegz]

Brings back horrible memories from July. Not Spin Palace but Ladbrokes when I had the following mail:
"Dear Mr Sucker,

Thank you for contacting Ladbrokes.
Unfortunately your account is linked to another account held at Ladbrokes that has already received this promotion. Therefore you would not be eligible to receive this bonus.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us again and we will be more than happy to help you.
Kind Regards
Ben
Ladbrokes promotion Team"


some angry mails from me followed by


"Dear Mr Sucker,

Thank you for your e-mail.
We have checked with our promotions team again, and we can confirm that your account is definitely linked to another Ladbrokes account that has already received this promotion. Therefore you would not be eligible for
this promotion.
This is stated in the full terms and conditions of this promotion, to view these please follow the link below:
http://casino.ladbrokes.com/en/centre-match/promotions
We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused you and we hope that this does clarify matters for you. Should you require any further assistance, please contact us again and we will be more than happy to help you.
Kind regards,
Sophie
Customer Services
Ladbrokes online Gaming"

Some mails later I got my bonus, played it and closed the account.
What makes this somewhat interesting is that I had been a customer for over 2 years with a few hundred deposits (most without playing for a bonus) and a bunch of withdrawals.
And had played another promo the day after which was credited as normal. Also notice how small the bonus was.

They never told me how I was linked. Maybe IP address, but that can change a couple of times per week.

Sorry if its a bit off-topic but a somewhat similar case as the OPs which actually never was resolved.

[vinylweatherman]

Brings back horrible memories from July. Not Spin Palace but Ladbrokes when I had the following mail:
"Dear Mr Sucker,

Thank you for contacting Ladbrokes.
Unfortunately your account is linked to another account held at Ladbrokes that has already received this promotion. Therefore you would not be eligible to receive this bonus.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us again and we will be more than happy to help you.
Kind Regards
Ben
Ladbrokes promotion Team"


some angry mails from me followed by


"Dear Mr Sucker,

Thank you for your e-mail.
We have checked with our promotions team again, and we can confirm that your account is definitely linked to another Ladbrokes account that has already received this promotion. Therefore you would not be eligible for
this promotion.
This is stated in the full terms and conditions of this promotion, to view these please follow the link below:
http://casino.ladbrokes.com/en/centre-match/promotions
We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused you and we hope that this does clarify matters for you. Should you require any further assistance, please contact us again and we will be more than happy to help you.
Kind regards,
Sophie
Customer Services
Ladbrokes online Gaming"

Some mails later I got my bonus, played it and closed the account.
What makes this somewhat interesting is that I had been a customer for over 2 years with a few hundred deposits (most without playing for a bonus) and a bunch of withdrawals.
And had played another promo the day after which was credited as normal. Also notice how small the bonus was.

They never told me how I was linked. Maybe IP address, but that can change a couple of times per week.

Sorry if its a bit off-topic but a somewhat similar case as the OPs which actually never was resolved.

This is pretty much ON TOPIC. It demonstrates that casinos can GET IT WRONG sometimes, and will NEVER admit their mistake, nor explain it. This means there is no learning process, and on top of this players feel the reasoning is bogus, and the problems are down to other factors, such as "winning too much". It is dreadful that an EXISTING player of some TWO YEARS just NEVER EARNS THE TRUST from the CASINO, yet CASINOS expect that players will trust THEM at their word, and are offended when some players seem NEVER to trust casinos, no matter how good they are.
In your case, surely the OTHER account is more likely to be the "bogus" one, that should be ineligible for the promotion. Where casinos detect a link to a more recently created account, it should be THAT account that gets investigated, and blocked from bonuses, NOT the account owned by a loyal player of two years.
I have personal experience of how Ladbrokes constantly "screw up" with their customer service, and their ATTITUDE that they cannot possibly have made a mistake at THEIR end. I awarded them a 6 month suspension from my PC for their trouble, even though they DID settle in the end, and I got my bonus.
The OPs case though, is different. He is a new player at the casino, and is supposedly linked to other new players, who are alleged to have used collusion to make the bonus +EV, working as a professional syndicate.
Your experience shows that casinos can detect "connections" that are nothing more than interpretations of co-incidences, a bit like making forecasts from past patterns in random slots.
The OP should now realise that making a PAB is well worth it, as Max may well see this as nothing more than a wrong conclusion drawn from a set of unfortunate co-incidences.
Many fraudulent players though, join here and post a complaint, but never follow through. This leads to the suspicion that the complaint has no merit, and is more an attempt to "blackmail" the casino into paying up for fear of bad publicity, than an attempt to right a wrong. The sheer number of fraudulent players posting as "one hit wonders" in the complaint sections to "blackmail" a casino into paying up is what has lead to the imposition of restrictions on new members, which has barred them from posting in this section.
It is essential that the OP return and PAB, otherwise he will not only get mistaken by Spin Palace as being a member of this syndicate, but will get mistaken as a fraudulent/blackmailing player here. This in turn will STRENGTHEN the case of Spin Palace that he is a member of some syndicate of "professional players/fraudsters".

[chipsalex]

Well - we're still waiting...

Or is this just another attempt at slandering a casino in public? You just signed up - skipped over the guidelines for dealing with complaints that you agreed to when registering - and just went ahead and trashed one of the accredited casinos here - who is also a member of the forum.

Why is it that newbie members think they are above the rules we have for this forum - specifically when dealing with complaints? Most everyone else abides by them. Did you contact the casino rep like you were supposed to? If not, why not? Or are these rules not applicable to newbie members?

Yeah, I'm pissed off. It's people like you who cause this "Complaint Section" to be shut off from newly registered members. It's been done before - I'll do it again.

I want to see that PAB within the next three hours or you can kiss your membership goodbye.

I'm sorry I'm not sitting in front of the computer at all times, I had to step away from my computer for a bit.
And I'm sorry if I didn't follow your procedures I didn't know what I had to do, I am just too pissed of right now that my money isn't here yet. I already spent money on my credit card for my kid and now they won't pay.

I'm not really sure why you're so hostile with me, I'm sorry if I didn't understand the casinomeister procedure and i'm sorry if I didn't reply sooner.
I just want my money.

And no I don't think I'm above everyone else, i just thought that CASINOMEISTER was someone that would help me get the money that I WON fairly.

[Casinomeister]

How can you not follow a procedure that is spelled out in front of you while signing up? Are the instructions that screwed up?

Instructions on how to post complaints were PMd to you when you opened your account. One of the things you were supposed to do was contact the Casino rep - and the link for the reps was provided. I don't mean to be anal about this, but we have a system here and we expect our members to abide by this. When you don't follow these procedures, the complaint sections turn into chaos and dilutes the quality and impact the complaint may have.

...And no I don't think I'm above everyone else, i just thought that CASINOMEISTER was someone that would help me get the money that I WON fairly.

As far as I know, they have evidence of fraud. I'm also aware that your deposits have been returned (or are in the process of being returned).

[chipsalex]

PAB has been submitted.

[spiderlegz]

This is pretty much ON TOPIC. It demonstrates that casinos can GET IT WRONG sometimes, and will NEVER admit their mistake, nor explain it. This means there is no learning process, and on top of this players feel the reasoning is bogus, and the problems are down to other factors, such as "winning too much". It is dreadful that an EXISTING player of some TWO YEARS just NEVER EARNS THE TRUST from the CASINO, yet CASINOS expect that players will trust THEM at their word, and are offended when some players seem NEVER to trust casinos, no matter how good they are.
In your case, surely the OTHER account is more likely to be the "bogus" one, that should be ineligible for the promotion. Where casinos detect a link to a more recently created account, it should be THAT account that gets investigated, and blocked from bonuses, NOT the account owned by a loyal player of two years.
I have personal experience of how Ladbrokes constantly "screw up" with their customer service, and their ATTITUDE that they cannot possibly have made a mistake at THEIR end. I awarded them a 6 month suspension from my PC for their trouble, even though they DID settle in the end, and I got my bonus.
The OPs case though, is different. He is a new player at the casino, and is supposedly linked to other new players, who are alleged to have used collusion to make the bonus +EV, working as a professional syndicate.
Your experience shows that casinos can detect "connections" that are nothing more than interpretations of co-incidences, a bit like making forecasts from past patterns in random slots.
The OP should now realise that making a PAB is well worth it, as Max may well see this as nothing more than a wrong conclusion drawn from a set of unfortunate co-incidences.
Many fraudulent players though, join here and post a complaint, but never follow through. This leads to the suspicion that the complaint has no merit, and is more an attempt to "blackmail" the casino into paying up for fear of bad publicity, than an attempt to right a wrong. The sheer number of fraudulent players posting as "one hit wonders" in the complaint sections to "blackmail" a casino into paying up is what has lead to the imposition of restrictions on new members, which has barred them from posting in this section.
It is essential that the OP return and PAB, otherwise he will not only get mistaken by Spin Palace as being a member of this syndicate, but will get mistaken as a fraudulent/blackmailing player here. This in turn will STRENGTHEN the case of Spin Palace that he is a member of some syndicate of "professional players/fraudsters".

I even tried to have them check my history with them, of course they didnt bother to. Forgot to mention that I never would have known of it if I hadnt asked. I probably could have disputed it and had it resolved trough a third party but I didnt have any trust left in them (and no money in play) and would under no circumstances continued to play there.

After that I have made some small deposits at other casinos but not a single one for the past two months (also partly because Im "learning" PLO at the moment). If you cant trust Ladbrokes, who can you trust?
32Red is the only casino I trust anymore, they assured me Im a "genuine" player.