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Casino Complaint Spin Palace betting limits

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by koalatee, Sep 1, 2009.

    Sep 1, 2009
  1. koalatee

    koalatee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Hi. Having looked over the software and done some research, I decided to make a deposit with Spin Palace. I had previously played "for fun" and was happy with how everything seemed to work. So, after my deposit I headed over to European Roulette to have a play. I was very (unpleasantly) surprised when I found out that I could place a maximum bet of 16. As you can imagine this will not get you very far in roulette! 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 then that's it - obviously you will get more than 5 same colours / odds or evens in a row on a fairly regular basis.
    Anyway, I had thoroughly read through the terms and conditions before making my deposit and nowhere did I see any mention of this restriction when "playing for real". I emailed Spin Palace support asking for some info on the betting limits on European Roulette, and they sent me this in return:

    Thank you for emailing The Palace Group.

    As per terms and conditions(??) the bet limit is set 8 when you join the casino. However will be reset to normal once you have completed the playthrough for the sign-up bonus. The sign-up bonus is subject to 30 times playthrough before you can make a withdrawal.

    The promotional terms and conditions may be viewed from the following website You must register/login in order to see the link..

    We would like to thank you for your support.

    Should you require any further assistance, we are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for your convenience.

    Kind regards,

    Buyi
    Guest Services


    Firstly, they have their info wrong - I can bet up to 16 not 8. Secondly, after following the link in the email they sent I clicked on the "promotional terms and conditions" in the first deposits tab, as I have made only 1 deposit.
    These are the T&Cs:

    1. The Welcome Bonus is a 100% Match based on a New Players 1st deposit at the casino.
    (example: deposit $150 and receive a $150 Welcome Bonus total account balance = $300)

    2. This offer is only valid to New Players and must be claimed within 7 days of a Real Account being registered.

    3. To qualify for a 100% Welcome Bonus, a minimum of $20 must be deposited within 7 days of the Real Account being registered.

    4. The maximum Welcome Bonus is $150 and only 1 Bonus is permitted per New Player.
    Note: the Welcome Bonus will automatically be credited to the Bonus Account upon a successful 1st deposit of $20 or more.

    5. The Welcome Bonus is then subject to 30 times playthrough before it may be withdrawn.

    a) Play at certain games will contribute a different percentage of the playthrough requirement:
    100% - all Slots and all Parlor Games
    8% - all Table Pokers, all Roulettes, all Video/Power Pokers (except All Aces and Jacks or Better), all Blackjacks (except Classic Blackjack) and Casino War
    0% (excluded games) - Classic Blackjack, all Aces Video/Power Pokers, Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers, all Baccarats, all Craps, Red Dog, Sic Bo

    If you play on the excluded games (0%) before meeting the playthrough requirements, then you agree that the casino holds the right to void any winnings made from these games at our discretion.

    Note: playthrough (wagering) made using the Gamble Feature on all Slots or the Double Feature on all Video/Power Pokers will not count towards playthrough requirements.

    b) As the playthrough requirements are met, funds are automatically transferred from the Bonus Account to the Cash Account in increments of $10.

    c) Playthrough is achieved when any real money wager is made.

    d) Any wagers made are deducted from the Cash Account first. Should there be no cash available; the wager is deducted from the Bonus Account. Funds in the Bonus Account are only played if there are insufficient credits in the Cash Account.

    e) Winnings resulting from wagers made from the Cash Account are credited directly to the Cash Account. Winnings resulting from wagers made from the Bonus Account are credited back to the Bonus Account.

    f) If crediting a Bonus Account with winnings results in the Bonus Account balance exceeding the original bonus amount, any excess winnings are credited to the Cash Account. Note: This is less any automatic transfers from bonus account to cash account that had occurred.

    6. All withdrawals will be subject to audit by the Casino. The Casino reserves the right to reclaim the Welcome Bonus and any winnings and/or close an account in a situation of obvious abuse or fraud.

    7. The Welcome Bonus offer is only permitted once per person, household, family, household address, email address, credit card number or shared computer environment such as a library, workplace, fraternity, university or school. The casino reserves the right to void all winnings and play should this term be disregarded.

    8. This offer is only good for the depositor and is not transferable.

    9. The Welcome Bonus offer may not be claimed in conjunction with any other promotions currently offered by Spin Palace Casino and is subject to on going review. The casino has the right to change the offer and its terms at any time.

    10. Should a withdrawal be submitted before the Welcome Bonus is credited to the Bonus Account, the bonus will be forfeited.

    11. You will be unable to withdraw any amount from your account until you've either met the wagering requirements or played through all funds in the Bonus Account. Winnings on bets from the Bonus Account, after the wagering requirements have been met, go straight to the Cash Account.

    12. The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotions or bonuses they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. Should the primary currency not be available, play is permitted in USD or CAD or EURO. Note: only players living in the UK are eligible to register a GBP account. The casino reserves the right to withhold any bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition.

    And these are the regular T&Cs:

    TERMS AND CONDITIONS

    The company is regulated by the Lotteries and Gaming Authority of Malta and subject to Maltese laws. These terms and conditions are also governed by Maltese law.

    By playing at the Spin Palace Casino ("the Casino"), You ("the Player") represent and warrant that
    you fully understand and agree to comply with these Terms and Conditions.

    1. The Player agrees and becomes a party to the rules: By use of this Web site, opening an
    account at the Web site, playing at the casino, use and re-use of such an account, participating in
    the games, or acceptance of any prize, the Player hereby represents, warrants and certifies all of
    these terms and conditions.

    2. The Player fully understands, agrees to, becomes a party to and shall abide by all rules,
    regulations, terms and conditions contained herein and as such rules; regulations, terms and
    conditions may change from time-to-time.

    3. The Player should not participate in games, open, use, reuse an account, enter web site or
    casino nor accept any prize if the Player doesnt agree with terms and conditions or understand
    them, as such rules may change from time to time.

    4. The Casino is restricted to individuals of legal age as determined in the jurisdiction in which the individual resides. The Player cannot play under any circumstances if she/he is not at least
    eighteen years of age.

    5. The activities and games of the Casino are open only to residents of those jurisdictions where
    such participation is legal and not prohibited. The Player acknowledges that it is his/her sole responsibility to understand the laws in his/her jurisdiction, which may prohibit participation of the
    online casino facility. Such laws may disqualify the Player from participating and nullify eligibility.
    You must understand and accept that we are unable to provide you any legal advice or
    assurances.

    Note: We cannot open accounts, or process bets or financial transactions, for individuals residing in the United States of America, American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, United States Minor Outlying Islands, US Virgin Islands, China, South Africa, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and Israel.

    6. The Casino makes no representations or warranties, implicit or explicit, as to the Player's legal
    right to participate in the Casino games nor shall any of the Casino's employees, licensees,
    distributors, wholesalers, affiliates, subsidiaries, advertising, promotion or other agencies, media partners, agents or retailers have the authority to make any such representations or warranties.

    7. Employees of the Casino, its licensees, distributors, wholesalers, subsidiaries, advertising,
    promotion or other agencies, media partners, retailers and members of the immediate families
    of each are not eligible to participate in the games.

    8. Games are for entertainment value only. No deposit is necessary or required to play. The
    Player may play without betting money if she/he wishes. Any participation in a game is at the
    Player's sole option, discretion and risk. By playing, the Player acknowledges that she/he does
    not find any game or the Casino in general to be offensive, objectionable, unfair, or indecent.

    9. By placing real wagers, the Player warrants that she/he is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction and that she/he accepts that we are unable to provide any warranties as to their
    legality or otherwise of their participation in real money play. The Player warrants that there are
    no legal or other restrictions against participation at Casino within his/her jurisdiction. It is the
    sole responsibility of the Player to determine if legal in his/her jurisdiction.

    10. The Player is only permitted to enter the Casino for his/her own personal entertainment and
    non-professional use. Any other entrance, access, use or re-use of the Casino or the Web site is
    strictly prohibited.

    11. The Casino reserves the right to cancel the Player's account for any reason whatsoever at
    any time without notice to the Player. Any balance in the Player's account at the time of such cancellation will be credited to his/her credit card and/or sent to the Player by check. However,
    the Casino reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in a Casino account in any of the following circumstances:
    I) If the Player has more than one active account for the Casino;
    II) If the name on the Player's Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s)
    used to make deposits on a Casino account;
    III) If the Player participates in a Casino promotion and cashes-in before fulfilling the
    requirements of that particular promotion;
    IV) If the Player provides incorrect or misleading registration information;
    V) If the Player is not of legal age;
    VI) If the Player resides in a jurisdiction where participation in Casino games is prohibited by law;
    VII) If the Player has allowed or permitted (intentionally or unintentionally) someone else to play
    on his/her Casino account;
    VIII) If the Player has not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment
    only (that is, the Player has played in a professional sense or in concert with other Player(s) as
    part of a club, group, etc.);
    IX) If the Player has "charged back" any of the deposits made with his/her credit card on his/her
    Casino account;
    X) If the Player is found cheating or if it is determined by the Casino that he/she has employed or
    made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems)
    designed specifically to defeat the Casino; OR
    XI) If the Casino should become aware that the Player has played at any other on-line casino
    under any of the circumstances set out at I) to X) above.

    12. By accepting any prize and/or winnings from the Casino, the Player consents to the use of
    his/her name for advertising and promotional purposes without additional compensation except
    where prohibited by law.

    13. If the Player has any dispute with regard to any outcome in the Casino, she/he must submit a complaint to the Company in writing within fourteen (14) days of the event taking place. If the complaint is not resolved to your satisfaction you have the right to refer such complaint to the Lotteries and Gaming Authority of Malta by sending an email to This email is not visible to you.

    14. In the event of a discrepancy between the result showing on the Player's Casino software and
    the Casino's server software, the result showing on the Casino's server software shall be the
    official and governing result.

    15. The Player is solely responsible for any applicable taxes on any prizes and/or winnings that
    she/he collects from the Casino

    16. The Casino reserves the right, in its sole discretion and without notice to the Player, to add
    new activities or games to the Casino or to discontinue any activity or game of the Casino at any
    time.

    17. If no activity is registered on the account for a period of thirty (30) months the account shall be deemed to be dormant under Maltas Remote Gaming Regulations (LN 176 of 2004). Thereafter we will make every effort to reimburse any balances in the account and failing that, balances in the account will be remitted to the Lotteries and Gaming Authority of Malta.

    18. The Player is solely responsible for keeping his/her account number and password secure and secret. The Player shall not allow any other person or third party including, without limitation, any
    minor, to use or reuse his/her account, access and/or use any materials or information from the
    Web site, accept any Prize, or participate in the Casino games. The Player is solely responsible for
    any deposits and/or losses that may occur on his/her account.

    19. The Casino shall not be required to maintain user names or passwords if the Player misplaces, forgets, loses, or is otherwise unable to enter the Casino because of anything other than the
    Casino's error.

    20. The Casino shall not be liable for computer or Internet malfunctions nor attempts by the
    Player to participate in the Casino games by methods, means or ways not intended by the Casino. Malfunctions or misuse will result in all play and pays being voided.

    21. If the Player is found to be cheating or attempting to defraud the Casino, or if the Player makes untrue and/or malicious comments with regard to the Casino's operation, the Casino reserves the right to report the Player's actions together with his/her identity and e-mail address, to the appropriate law enforcement agencies, as well as to pursue the player for civil damages for all losses and damage to the reputation of the Casino.

    22. The Player shall hold the Casino, its employees, officers, directors, licensees, distributors, wholesalers, affiliates, subsidiaries, advertising, promotion or other agencies, media partners,
    agents and retailers harmless and shall fully indemnify same from any and all costs, expenses,
    liabilities and damages whatsoever that may arise as a result of: (i) the Player's entry, use, or
    reuse of the Web Site, (ii) the Player's use of any materials at the Web Site, (iii) the Player's
    entry, use, or reuse of the Casino's server, (iv) the Player's participation in the Casino games,
    or, (v) the Player's acceptance of any prize.

    23. The Player further and specifically indemnifies this Casino, its employees, officers, directors
    and any and all associated or affiliated persons or organizations against any and all costs,
    expenses, liabilities and damages arising from any legal or other action taken either by or
    against the Player arising from any and all interaction with the Casino and/or any of its
    employees, officers, directors and any and all associated or affiliated persons or organizations.
    Such action shall include (but not necessarily be limited to) any actions that might arise as a
    result of the criminalization of online/Internet wagering within the Players jurisdiction.

    24. Spin Palace Casino is the trade name of the Casino, and the Player obtains no rights to such
    term, nor any other terms, graphics, text, concepts or methodologies, by using the Web Site and
    the material contained therein.

    25. Materials of the Casino games (whether electronically obtained or obtained by other means)
    are automatically void if counterfeited, mutilated, forged, altered or tampered with in any way, if illegible, mechanically or electronically reproduced, obtained outside authorised legitimate
    channels or if they contain printing, production, typographical, mechanical, electronic or any other errors. Liability for materials of the Casino games containing any error is limited to replacement
    of same.

    26. Any and all materials submitted for prize claims become the property of the Casino and will
    not be returned. The Casino is not responsible for lost, late, illegible, incomplete, damaged,
    mutilated, misdirected, or postage due mail, requests, prize claims or entries.

    27. The use of the $ symbol indicates US Dollars only, the use of the C$ symbol indicates
    Canadian Dollars only, the use of the symbol indicates Great Britain Pounds only and the use
    of the symbol indicates Euros only.

    28. Spin Palace is committed to maintaining the privacy of its players at all times and will only
    publish the first name and last initial of the player in question.

    29. Spin Palace Casino is authorised by the Lotteries and Gaming Authority of Malta.

    30. In registering a Practice or Real account, you hereby consent to us contacting you through any and all means of communication (whether in written or verbal form and including, but not limited to email, telephone and SMS) in respect of matters relating to your account. To unsubscribe to any or all forms of communication, please contact customer support directly.

    31. All customer data will be treated confidential and will not be sold to others. We recommend that the player print out all transaction data, the rules of the game, the cancellation regulations, and the payment methods in order to avoid misconceptions and discussions at a later time and keep them at an easily accessible place. The company respects your privacy rights and fully abides by Maltas Data Protection laws. We will not disclose or share any sensitive information about you if specifically prohibited to do so by Maltese laws.


    Final and exclusive agreement
    The Terms and Conditions contained herein represent the complete, final and exclusive
    agreement between You (the Player) and Spin Palace Casino and supersede and merge all prior agreements, representations and understandings between You and Spin Palace Casino with
    regards to playing at the Casino.

    Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to amend these Terms and Conditions, or to implement or
    amend any procedures, at any time without prior notice to You. Such amendments will be
    implemented at the discretion of Casino Management and put into immediate effect. Such
    procedural changes will only be in response to the interests and security of the Casino and/or
    the Players.

    Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to request proof of age at any time to ensure the
    prohibition of play by minors.

    The Player agrees to review at least once a month these Rules, Terms and Conditions as
    specified on this web site.

    Please note that separate Terms and Conditions exist for the claiming of promotional offers
    however where wagering requirements for bonus money or free credits are not specifically
    stipulated in promotional offers then the rules are available here.

    Wagers on baccarat, roulette, roulette royale, sic bo and craps are excluded when calculating
    the above wagering requirements.

    Any criminal or suspicious activities may be reported.

    Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings.

    Players may be required to submit certain verification documents when withdrawing/depositing at the casino. These documents may include clear photo identification, proof of address, credit card copies and purchase declaration forms. This process is to ensure the security of our players and to comply with Gaming and eCogra regulations.


    Unless I have missed something here, I do not see any mention of betting limits in either these "promotional T&Cs" or in the regular T&Cs, and the fact that they have directed me to T&Cs that have zero to do with my issue doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. That being said, it is possible I have missed something and so I guess what I am asking for is a second opinion - is it normal practise to not disclose betting limits in the T&Cs? If so how can this scenario be avoided? Also, since my email to Spin Palace support they have still not given me the correct betting limits - should this worry me re: their capability to give proper customer support?

    Any help or comments appreciated, /rant off!

    P.S. Apologies if using the topic type "Casino complaint" is not appropriate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  2. Sep 1, 2009
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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2009
  4. Sep 1, 2009
  5. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Their terms are a mess.

    As you note, they link here

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    but they also have terms here

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    which I believe you are also subject to, even though that page is not linked from the '1000 free' promotion.

    Specifically

    "Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings."

    However even that doesn't communicate the fact that you are limited to 16 (10.67% of the bonus), not 45 (30% of the bonus).

    They have erred.

    Some other casinos do communicate this, now common, practice of restricting bet sizes while you have a bonus in your account.

    It is a practice designed to reduce the player's chance of winning, and is one they should disclose.

    Palace should refund your money and change their website to reflect what they are doing.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Sep 1, 2009
  7. koalatee

    koalatee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Thanks for your response. The playthrough requirements and single bets >30% of bonus do not affect me (yet) as all I was doing was placing low bets, in the region of 0.75% of bonus. I agree that their terms seem to be rather un-specific with regard to certain things. (Not forgetting that there is no mention of betting limits). I have yet to contact their support again in relation to this issue since I don't want to approach it "asking" for my deposit back as this gives them the very easy answer of "no" - I would rather be in full possesion of the facts first.

    From what I understand they should have disclosed the betting restrictions either in their T&Cs, at account creation or at the very least prior to me commencing play, bonus or no bonus.

    All I really want in all honesty is my original deposit back - not worried about my small winnings or bonus - as this has made me lose confidence in Spin Palace. Do I have a leg to stand on? I think I do, but will defer to more knowledgeable people here.

    (OT - that was another thing that annoyed me, there didn't seem to be a way to deposit and NOT get the bonus unless I waited 7 days from real account creation. Given the choice I would never have taken the bonus.)


    *edit* - just noticed this in the promotional T&Cs:

    1. The Welcome Bonus is a 100% Match based on a New Players 1st deposit at the casino.
    (example: deposit $150 and receive a $150 Welcome Bonus total account balance = $300)

    2. This offer is only valid to New Players and must be claimed within 7 days of a Real Account being registered.


    Rubbish!!! You must wait 7 days in order to NOT recieve the bonus. The wording there more than implies that additional action is required to "claim" the bonus. This was NOT the case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  8. Sep 2, 2009
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This bet limiting thing is a fairly recent feature for MGS casinos. It should ENFORCE terms prohibiting "irregular play", so that players do not fall victim to confiscation of winnings. problem here is that the Palace Group are in a bit of a mess over this. They do NOT mention that bets are being limited when bonuses are in the account, and the limits imposed do NOT match the terms laid down. They allow 30% of bonus balance bets, but someone has set the limits lower.

    It may be that MGS have only delivered a basic system, where it is "one size fits all", so that whilst some players will find they can bet near 30%, others who make larger deposits will find the limits for them much lower.

    I have heard from a number of MGS casinos that they have introduced "opt in" systems for bonuses because of players who do NOT want to be restricted because they have taken one. MGS have had such a "promotions manager" system FOR AGES, yet so few casinos have used it. Those that are switching to an "opt in" system seem to be designing their own, rather than using the MGS application.

    There have been a number of threads, and a personal experience or two, that lead me to feel that the Palace Group is going downhill. This is something they should be anxious to fix before the rot really sets in.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Sep 2, 2009
  11. koalatee

    koalatee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    So then they are in breach of their own terms and conditions, voiding any agreement with me and I am within my rights to ask for my initial deposit back. I will send a (polite) message to support and see what happens next...
     
  12. Sep 2, 2009
  13. koalatee

    koalatee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    Also, where did you get the 30% figure from? I can not find any mention of that in any of Spin Palace's T&Cs... no mention of any betting limits whatsoever...

    Anyway, I am now awaiting a response from their support - will post results.

    (OT - two different screenshots clearly show conflicting information with regard to how initial deposit bonus is claimed. One says it is instantly credited and the other says that it must be claimed within a certain period of account creation. What a mess!)
     
  14. Sep 2, 2009
  15. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK

    here

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  16. Sep 2, 2009
  17. koalatee

    koalatee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    **This thread may want to be moved to the bonus-related area as I have to mention the welcome bonus issue (as well as the betting limit issue) since that is the only thing support are willing to talk to me about in any greater detail than saying "it says this here" and supplying an irrelevant link.**

    @ thelawnet - Sorry to go on about this, but what number term is this from because I still do not see that anywhere in there and I have read through them several times now. (It is possible that I keep missing it as I am tired and frustrated at the moment. If this was the case then my issue would only be with the "optional" (cough cough) welcome bonus which I never opted in for and was never given the chance to opt out of).

    Also I have got a nice quick response from support but all they have done is quote playthrough requirements which I am fully aware of and do not pertain to my question.

    They also tell me that I had the option to not accept the welcome bonus. This is not true - at the time of my first deposit it was credited to my account. I never saw a figure in my account that was just my deposit, instantly it was my deposit + welcome bonus. See image below, and tell me if you see any way to opt out of an automatically and instantly credited welcome bonus! :confused:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    whereas in the T&Cs it says

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    So, having read the T&Cs I was sure that I could deposit and play with no bonus unless I claimed it by way of further action on my part within 7 days, but unfortunatley this was not the case.

    Also, depending on wether I navigate there through my browser or click link support sent me, you get either

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    or

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    This is only the case on the 2nd deposit tab. The first deposit is always as in very top image. Have not checked the 3rd tab. (edit - I can no longer access the version of the "2nd tab" page with the input fields, it is now always as the lower of the two images)

    It seems to me that they have instantly credited my account with a welcome bonus then imposed very low betting limits, and when I queried this they told me the welcome bonus was optional and reel off playthrough requirements in lieu of addressing the issue of the imposed limit. On top of this the information displayed on their site is inconsistant depending on how I navigate to it.

    I am more than a little baffled...

    This is the email I sent:

    Hello.
    >
    > I recently made my first deposit after joining your casino. When I came to play it was immediatley obvious that there were betting limits in place that are not in your terms and conditions or promotional terms and conditions. I emailed support querying this and got a nice, quick reply that contained a link to the relevant promotional terms and conditions and included the text:
    > "As per terms and conditions the bet limit is set 8 when you join the casino."
    >
    > This is not included anywhere in the page that was linked or any other place in your terms and conditions, and also the limit I was told in the email is not the limit that is in place on my account.
    >
    > Given these discrepancies I believe it is reasonable for me to request that you return my initial and only deposit.
    >
    > Thank you, and I await your response.

    and the response I got:

    Thank you for emailing Spin Palace Casino.
    >
    > As per promotional terms and conditions, the bonus amount is subject to 30 times playthrough before you can make a withdrawal. Our records indicate that you have wagered 40.94 so far and still required to wager 4,459.06 more.
    >
    > Furthermore, by playing at Spin Palace Casino ("the Casino"), You ("the Player") represent and warrant that you fully understand and agree to comply with the casino Terms and Conditions.
    >
    > Just so you know that you have an option not to accept the bonus so you can only play using your own money. (rly? see top image)
    >
    > We would like to thank you for your support.
    >
    > Should you require any further assistance, we are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for your convenience.
    >
    > Kind regards,
    >

    Does anyone else think that this simply doesn't add up?

    If they had not automatically given me the bonus I expect that I would be spinning reels right now, perfectly happy, but as it is they have failed to address my issue re: limit after imposing an "optional" welcome bonus.

    TBH I was on the verge of asking support if they could remove the bonus and I would continue to play with just my deposit, but after noticing a couple of other things I just want out at this stage as I have completely lost confidence in this casino due to inconsistancies of information and procrastinating support. Is it worth me contacting a forum rep or should I try again and see if support will address my issue first?

    Sorry for the massive posts, and thanks for all feedback :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  18. Sep 2, 2009
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Forget support, it seems you have uncovered a bit of a mess in their oranisational structure. The replication, but with completely different info, of both the second deposit claim page and the bonus play terms show that here is a case of "the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing". Support are either the left or right hand, YOU need the BRAIN to tell you what is SUPPOSED to be happening.

    You could try contacting the Palace Group rep here, and if you get nowhere, can use the PAB service.

    Your screenshots have illustrated the feeling I have of the group "going downhill". EVERYBODY needs to be reading from the same script, but it seems there are several versions going around, and depending on who you contact (or what link you click) you get conflicting information.

    The problem with asking for your deposit back is that you have already begun to play, despite running into the bet limit. If you can show that the ONLY way to find out about this limit was to play until you encountered it, you would still have a case, unless the casino can show it mentioned the imposition of bet limits in their terms. The problem for the casino is that they have TWO sets of terms, as well as two pages for the 25% bonus, so depending upon which "script" you read, you would either be aware, or unaware, that new players were subject to bet limits.
    Even where they DO mention a bet limit, it is 30% of the bonus, and you SHOULD therefore be able to bet up to this amount, rather than some unpublished arbitrary figure.
     
  20. Sep 2, 2009
  21. koalatee

    koalatee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    thanks for taking the time to go through that!

    The whole thing is a bit all over the place, but even going by what was/is in their promotional terms:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    claim (klm)
    tr.v. claimed, claiming, claims
    1. To demand, ask for, or take as one's own or one's due: claim a reward; claim one's luggage at the airport carousel.
    2. To take in a violent manner as if by right: a hurricane that claimed two lives.
    3. To state to be true, especially when open to question; assert or maintain: claimed he had won the race; a candidate claiming many supporters.
    4. To deserve or call for; require: problems that claim her attention.


    source: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    ie. claim a [noun]; claim a bonus

    So what they are saying is

    "This offer is only valid to New Players and must be demanded / asked for / taken within 7 days of a Real Account being registered."

    I have neither demanded, asked for nor taken anything (before sending them my first email asking for my deposit back :)) Nor was I given the option to decline the bonus at time of registration, first deposit or thereafter.

    Surely it is a legal requirement of any T&Cs to mean what they say? Otherwise they are redundant.

    As far as proving that I had to gamble before becoming aware of the limit imposed, I assume that they record data their end so records will show that I played European Roulette for a few spins, biggest bet placed was 16 and when I tried to place a bet over 16 I was not allowed - then I realized what was going on. I have screenshots of all the T&Cs, have saved emails sent and recieved and have uploaded pics of the promotional web pages - none of which give indication of a betting limit.

    Thanks for the advice - I will contact a rep, see what happens and keep you posted.

    *edit -Where in the terms is the mention of a max bet limit of 30% of bonus? I can't see it. The only 30 I see is the mention of the 30x playthrough required.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Despite this I am told that I can make no withdrawl whatsoever (bonus or deposit) before the requirements are met.

    I will happily take my words back regarding the max bet limit issue if I could find it, lol. Other points would still remain though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009

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