Ladbrokes "Spirit of the Promotion"

[Casinomeister]

Geeze VWM - no one said anything about no-can-do. You need to take a serious chill pill since it doesn't take much to set you off in a rant.

The PAB service is a communications service, and if a company has a non-disclosure commitment to abide by, then we respect that. It doesn't mean that we throw the baby out with the bath water - it means that we go through other avenues of approach.

You need to mellow out a little bit.

[colly]

VWM

THat is one great but scary avatar

[Casinomeister]

...
I always thought that cooperation with the PAB service was one of the "core" requirements for being accredited here, and I recall that when Villento brands decided they no longer wanted to deal with PABs, they were removed from the accredited section to become a "no-can-do".

Again, you're making ASSUMPTIONS here or TWISTING my WORDS around. RE Villento: what I said verbatim:

They have chosen not to respond to a couple of PABs and they don't have any interest on participating or monitoring the forum.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ccredited.html

Non-responsiveness is the crux of the matter. Labrokes is not "non-responsive" and they have a fairly good relationship with the members and me.

[vinylweatherman]

Geeze VWM - no one said anything about no-can-do. You need to take a serious chill pill since it doesn't take much to set you off in a rant.

The PAB service is a communications service, and if a company has a non-disclosure commitment to abide by, then we respect that. It doesn't mean that we throw the baby out with the bath water - it means that we go through other avenues of approach.

You need to mellow out a little bit.

This is one of their own making, and whilst they are claiming players are "abusing the spirit", they are ALSO abusing the spirit of data protection laws. Player data belongs to the PLAYER, and if the PLAYER authorises it to be used within a mediation service, this should be what happens.

EVERY casino has a non-disclosure commitment, yet the PAB service can work within this.

If a player CANNOT submit a PAB, then despite whatever alternative avenues exits, it is STILL a "no-can-do" as far as a PAB is concerned.

This approach from Ladbrokes has come to the fore at the same time as they are rolling out this "spirit of the bonus" bullshit, and they seem determined to continue with this. It all looks like a policy shift towards a less fair way of administering their promotions.

Only ONE of the three players so far who have fallen victim to this "spirit of the bonus" rule has had redress. The rest have one fewer options than they had before, as they can no longer use the FORMAL PAB process, where they would have to open their arguments for taking action against the player to independent scrutiny.

All they seem to have now is a way of having the issue looked at again by a higher manager, but STILL done in secrecy, and with no guarantee that the decision is not already a "done deal", with any second look being just for show.

If casinos do NOT share their evidence, how can their decisions be assessed for fairness, and adhering to the standards expected of an accredited casino.

This has been building up for some time with Ladbrokes, it has not suddenly happened. The first anti-player moves started back in December 2008, and have been cranked up slowly ever since. Rather than change their rules, they decided to carry on making "too good to be true" offers, but with ever more powerful "F U Clauses" to protect them from players THEY deemed to have won unfairly.
As well as this "spirit" idea, they have now said that merely intending to claim the bonus is itself "bonus abuse", even before a singe bet WITH the bonus funds in the account has been made. EVERY offer is advertised with the intent that a customer will see the ad, and seek to take up the offer advertised. What is happening to some is "bait & switch", since it is only AFTER they have deposited and played it through 1x as specified that they are told the offer does not apply to them, even though there is no way to determine this from either the terms, or the ad.


Surely not being accredited is NOT the same as being rogue. It seems you have a "working relationship" with quite a few groups, yet they are merely "good to go", rather than being accredited.

Accredited should mean the casino goes BEYOND what is expected, and NOT merely scrapes along doing what they can get away with.

A casino that simply "meets general industry standards" should be nothing more than "good to go".

[Casinomeister]

Okay - to appease any misunderstandings, no matter what I or Max or any one of the moderators have said in the past or present "We accept PABs for Ladbrokes, and we process them."

/debate on this topic

The Ladbrokes reps are looking into the OP's issue at the moment.

@wikipiti - please check your PMs.

[johnsteed]

***

Casinomeister: Labrokes is not "non-responsive" and they have a fairly good relationship with the members and me.

No, they are one of the absolute worst at dealing with emails/questions.



Why is that?



- They have never promptly responded to my queries. They have stated that it'd take up to 48 hours for response time, and they weren't joking! I could fly from Canada to South Korea, disembark, go out for dinner, see a movie, update my memoirs book, go to bed, wake-up, get some breakfast, go for a work-out, maybe take a dip-in-the-pool, do some shopping, then proceed to go back to Canada. I'd be back home, call some friends, complain about how small the seats were on the flight over, then I could take a much needed shower, have a snack, check my emails, and see that my Ladbrokes 'care' response isn't there yet, and there's about 2 hours and 29 minutes to go.



- If and when they do respond, I always got the feeling that they never actually read any of the initial emails that I'd sent out. So, that means I'd have to wait an additional 48 hours in order to get an answer to the questions I had initially asked. Very frustrating.



- Whenever I received a 2nd response (another 48 hours later), another agent working in another dept. (or maybe the same dept. but just carrying a different 'title') would respond, and would ask me to forward my initial queries again, in order to get them up to speed. In a nutshell, ask one question, because that's all they're going to respond to. Also, cross your fingers that they actually read that first question correctly.



- These situations would repeat over and over and over and over and over and over again. So, a member here is left with the additional option to PM any number of people who work at Ladbrokes from this site. Thing is, they don't like getting PMs from this site (not that they dislike this site or anything), and would always point me to 'care@ladbrokes' which is about as useful as AOL stock (actually, if you can think of worse stock feel free to use it here). And I can think of SO many times where they told me that they'd forward my query to the right person/people, and I'd never hear about it. At least whenever I used the PM method, I got a response in a short amount of time.



- How many people work at Ladbrokes, and how many titles exist there? If I go through all of my emails sent to them over the years (and I still have them), I never get the same person twice (say for those I've contacted through PMs here simply b/c it's a direct method). It has to be one of the most mismanaged sites around. No continuity whatsoever. I've asked numerous times if there was one particular person to reach, instead of going through all of that mess (time and time again). I never got a response to that particular question. Odd. It's as though they don't know who's in charge, or there's no one there who's responsible for anything.



- Why use 'care@ladbrokes.com'? How about 'wedon'treallycare,atallactuallycometothinkofit@ladbrokes.com'?



They may very well be about as legit as they come, and you'll always get paid exactly 6 hours after making a withdrawal, but their CS is absolutely inept to queries (over the phone... not-so-bad), and they aren't as player-friendly as some seem to believe. How can one form a 'relationship' with a faceless entity, one which barely acknowledges its customers?



***

[Casinomeister]

No, they are one of the absolute worst at dealing with emails...

Well then ... we need to be given a heads up - like this

[rainmaker]

***







No, they are one of the absolute worst at dealing with emails.





***

Yes, I must agree.

I think they are in the same league as William Hill and Unibet when it comes to e-mail support. Just takes forever to get a reply, and when you do they often don`t answer your question. My feeling is that they frequently will use pre-written vague answers.

But of course, you will always have the opportunity to contact them by chat or phone.

[Zultha]

In the meantime, I had no problem in making sure that the right people saw your complaint (or any others for that matter). They called me this morning to let me know you were paid. Am I right?

A simple thank you would have sufficed.

As for the "Spirit of the Bonus", this is an unfair term and should not be used:


http://www.casinomeister.com/philosophy.php#players

It looks like someone slept through Online Casino Management 101 - "Making Offers to Players". Some remedial training is necessary.

Bryan
I did thank you and acknowledge that I had been paid in the thread relevant to my dispute, http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post413798 but again, thank you.

With regards Ladbrokes not discussing with third parties, well Im sorry they have fed you a curve ball and you have took it. I suggest you look at IBAS. Stands for Independant Betting Arbitration Service. Its that independant that 62% of its funding comes indirectly from Bookmakers.

http://www.ibas-uk.com/

So how come they will discuss disputes with them over gambling disputes but not with you? Probably because they are not pulling your strings but they are theres.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...hird_party.pdf

Above is a PDF regarding disclosing data to third parties. It shows how easy it is. All they have to ask if they at all doubted is for an email from the registered account allowing you to discuss it with them.

They dont want to discuss it with you because they know that they are wrong. Like you said, this only happened recently. Why?

No gripe with CM obviously but the arguement of not discussing with third parties is ballies even from their own terms.

http://help.ladbrokes.com/display/4/...130&tab=search

Thanks for getting me my money though again.

[wikipiti]

Okay - to appease any misunderstandings, no matter what I or Max or any one of the moderators have said in the past or present "We accept PABs for Ladbrokes, and we process them."

/debate on this topic

The Ladbrokes reps are looking into the OP's issue at the moment.

@wikipiti - please check your PMs.

hi and sorry for not replying sooner. i have received an email from the promotions manager crediting me the bonus. they are still insisting that my betting was safebetting but on this occasion will credit me the bonus. i am obviously thankful but what if i hadnt found this site? a thankyou to the site owners for obtaining this bonus for me