Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006

[dominique]

Old / Expired Link

 

[Rollo]

A good running account of the devistation from Bloomberg:

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[Rollo]

Attention Webmasters and Affiliates

Did anyone take note of this little bit from the above article cited by dominique?

"The greatest danger here would seem to be with affiliates. Any American operator can be easily grabbed. This includes sites that dont directly take bets, but do refer visitors to gaming sites. If the affiliate is paid for those referrals by receiving a share of the money wagered or lost, it would not be difficult to charge the affiliate with violating this law, under the theory of aiding and abetting. Being a knowing accomplice and sharing in the proceeds of a crime make the aider and abettor guilty of the crime itself. The federal government could also charge the affiliate with conspiracy to violate this new Act."

Now that is scary! If that's the case, add bocguide.com to the out list.

 

[Tailgun]

Dark Clouds Are Gathering

Well, I've been depressed over this since this morning. I was really enjoying gaming online and it looks like I got into it way too late. My gambling career is over before it had a chance to begin.

I've gone past rage and disgust over this political leadership. I have only myself to blame for voting Republican the last 12 years. I voted for Bush twice and supported conservatives because I believed they were the lesser of two evils.

At least they would be fiscally conservative, I thought, and hold the Religious Right at arm's length, the way Reagan did. Instead, Republicans delivered budget-busting deficits due to wanton entitlement program expansion, pushed 'Creationism' in schools and now this. I'm feeling pretty damn stupid.

As a registered Libertarian I found the Marxist ideology of the Left in America greatly threatening. The idea of Democrats being back in control, especially during a time of armed conflict against international terror groups, left me gravely concerned.

Now I just don't give a fuck; burn this country to the ground and start over.

 

[Simmo!]

Old / Expired Link

Essential reading. Thanks Dom.

What's interesting is the definition of gambling as "a game subject to chance". I wonder if that will be exploited at some stage.

 

[paul02085]

Well, I've been depressed over this since this morning. I was really enjoying gaming online and it looks like I got into it way too late. My gambling career is over before it had a chance to begin.

I've gone past rage and disgust over this political leadership. I have only myself to blame for voting Republican the last 12 years. I voted for Bush twice and supported conservatives because I believed they were the lesser of two evils.

At least they would be fiscally conservative, I thought, and hold the Religious Right at arm's length, the way Reagan did. Instead, Republicans delivered budget-busting deficits due to wanton entitlement program expansion, pushed 'Creationism' in schools and now this. I'm feeling pretty damn stupid.

As a registered Libertarian I found the Marxist ideology of the Left in America greatly threatening. The idea of Democrats being back in control, especially during a time of armed conflict against international terror groups, left me gravely concerned.

Now I just don't give a fuck; burn this country to the ground and start over.

My only method of revenge is to refuse to vote in elections from now thru the next presidential election in 08 since i refuse to vote for democrats. This is way worse and quick than i thought it would be.

 

[Tailgun]

My only method of revenge is to refuse to vote in elections from now thru the next presidential election in 08 since i refuse to vote for democrats. This is way worse and quick than i thought it would be.

I agree Paul. Or I'll at least go back to voting for my fellow Libertarians across the board again, regardless of their winning prospects.

I know my last post might have seemed over the top, I've just been feeling terribly disheartened by one bad thing after another...

 

[paul02085]

I agree Paul. Or I'll at least go back to voting for my fellow Libertarians across the board again, regardless of their winning prospects.

I know my last post might have seemed over the top, I've just been feeling terribly disheartened by one bad thing after another...

I feel your pain man.

 

[Slotster!]

I'm just impressed the US Govt appear to work on Saturdays!?? Nutters.

Bad bad news otherwise though... Let's tell everyone what they can and can't do, especially when it impacts on money that's leaving the country instead of filling our own tax coffers. Diabolical.

 

[Rollo]

Interesting - Checks likely exempt

Banks await regulations on US Internet betting ban
Mon Oct 2, 2006 6:12 PM ET



By Peter Kaplan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The costs of policing a new U.S. Internet gambling ban for banks and credit card companies will be determined by regulators in the coming months, industry officials said on Monday.

Government officials are expected to propose a "coding-and-blocking" system that will identify and stop payment to online gambling sites, experts said. Many banks and credit card companies already voluntarily block Internet gambling transactions using such a system.

The Treasury Department and Federal Reserve Board have nine months to draft regulations after the new law, included in a package of port security measures passed by Congress on Friday and expected to be signed into law by President George W. Bush.

U.S. banks and credit card companies are optimistic that officials will prepare a workable system.

"If the Treasury (department) and Fed can come up with reasonable rules here, it shouldn't be that bad," said Oliver Ireland, a lawyer who works with several financial services payment providers, including Visa.

"The way they built (the new law), it gives us a chance to work with the regulators in a constructive way to come up with a system," said Greg Mesack, director of government relations for industry trade group America's Community Bankers.

British-based gaming companies such as Sportingbet, PartyGaming Plc and 888 Holdings Plc said on Monday they would likely pull out of the U.S. market, their biggest source of revenue, and their stocks plunged.

Some banking industry officials had worried that the new law would make them responsible for blocking payments by check as well as credit card payments, a requirement they had said would be unworkable.

But those concerns were allayed when lawmakers agreed to a provision allowing the Treasury and the Fed to exempt checks from the requirement.

Experts said the system would not be fool-proof, but would bar the vast majority of bettors.

"I suspect some smart enterprising person out there will find a way to (get around) it. But for your average person who wants to get out there and bet on college football, you're not going to do it," said one lobbyist.

Ireland agreed. "I think this puts in place a broader blocking system that's going to be harder to get past for the Internet (gambling) sites," he said.

 

[amatrine]

Re

Oh good. So hopefully the banks will not refuse to cash a check a least.

Still what about ACH tansfers? I already get them blocked at some places and have had problems recieving money, So now they will probably all be blocked. Agg

Ama

 

[Rollo]

Anurag Dikshit

Another good read from Bloomberg:

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I never even knew who founded PartyGaming to tell you the truth. Looks like the big cheese is 33 year old billionaire

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and one

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.

I sugest everyone email Mr. Dikshit and Mrs. Parasol and give them a piece of your mind.

 

[Westland Bowl]

About a year ago, I believe there was a Rothschild family that sold their interest in an online gambling website for billions of dollars. I bet they knew it eventually would hit the fan....if not prepared the **** for fan throwing.

 

[Westland Bowl]

Found this on another forum:

"Gambling over the Internet is for people who possess no moral compass!" -- Rep Mark Foley

 

[spearmaster]

Found this on another forum:

"Gambling over the Internet is for people who possess no moral compass!" -- Rep Mark Foley

LMFAO! Looks like his moral compass just got demagnetized as well...

I sugest everyone email Mr. Dikshit and Mrs. Parasol and give them a piece of your mind.

Now wait a minute... what in the world give you the idea that these two have anything to do with what happened? Dikshit is a programmer, and Parasol a marketer. They sustained severe losses after this legislation passed Congress. You think they're happy about what is happening?

 

[Rollo]

Why don't they try to defend the industry then? Why the silence and inaction? They benefited more than anyone. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them, they went from billionaires to mere multi-millionaires. How they must be suffering.

All the gaming employees, poker players, webmasters, etc. that gave years making them billionaires are the ones who are going to do the real suffering. I find their (and that of all the other bigwigs) lack of action/take the money and run attitude selfish. When you're the leader of an industry that a lot of people depend on for a living, you have some responsibility to people other than yourself. That's the way I feel about it anyway. But I guess everyone has their own perspective.

I didn't expect anything from the religious-right, but I did expect to see some action on behalf of the industry leaders in the defense of the industry more than weakly worded statements to stock holders about profitablity of their narrow interests. Where's their public otrage over this moral hypocracy?

If I were a billionaire online casino magnate, I'd be doing the TV rounds and attacking the shit out of Frist, Kyl, Goodlatte et al, doing opposition research and hitting them hard in the media if they so much as jaywalked in a previous life, I'd be getting involved in turning this into an international trade dispute making a case against this illegal protectionism, I'd be demanding an explanation in the US media about why online horse racing, state lotteries, and brink and mortar casinos get a pass. I'd start a major lobbying effort as well as issue advocacy groups. I'd let the folks behind this know that I have money and this is going to cost them plenty. But the big timers just ran away instead. There's a lot more you can do with millions of dollars than spending it on posh living, parties and hookers.

 

[spearmaster]

Why don't they try to defend the industry then? Why the silence and inaction? They benefited more than anyone. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them, they went from billionaires to mere multi-millionaires. How they must be suffering.

Neither of those two people have been outspoken in the past - in fact, reclusive might be a better description.

It's only the second working day after the legislation has been passed - but keep in mind it is still not law yet.

We should instead be targeting our ire at the incompetent lawmakers, plus the media who are not doing their homework properly.

All the gaming employees, poker players, webmasters, etc. that gave years making them billionaires are the ones who are going to do the real suffering. I find their (and that of all the other bigwigs) lack of action/take the money and run attitude selfish. When you're the leader of an industry that a lot of people depend on for a living, you have some responsibility to people other than yourself. That's the way I feel about it anyway. But I guess everyone has their own perspective.

Again, you're jumping the gun. They are hardly leaders in the industry - they just happen to own large parts of one of the biggest players. They have a CEO, Mitch Garber, who oversees the operation, and he has already come out and spoken on Party's behalf.

I didn't expect anything from the religious-right, but I did expect to see some action on behalf of the industry leaders in the defense of the industry more than weakly worded statements to stock holders about profitablity of their narrow interests. Where's their public otrage over this moral hypocracy?

There is/was a lobby - in fact, a few of them - who actively tried to show the government that the online gambling industry was legitimate and would be happy to pay taxes.

Some of them, unfortunately, got arrested - like David Carruthers. It should be no surprise that prominent owners or players in the industry are a bit thin-lipped about the most recent developments.

If I were a billionaire online casino magnate, I'd be doing the TV rounds and attacking the shit out of Frist, Kyl, Goodlatte et al, doing opposition research and hitting them hard in the media if they so much as jaywalked in a previous life, I'd be getting involved in turning this into an international trade dispute making a case against this illegal protectionism, I'd be demanding an explanation in the US media about why online horse racing, state lotteries, and brink and mortar casinos get a pass. I'd start a major lobbying effort as well as issue advocacy groups. I'd let the folks behind this know that I have money and this is going to cost them plenty. But the big timers just ran away instead. There's a lot more you can do with millions of dollars than spending it on posh living, parties and hookers.

Not that any of us are arguing with you - but I think you don't quite have the whole picture - and for sure, no one is running away, at the moment all anyone can do is protect their interests, especially where they are responsible to other shareholders.

Once they have done that, I'm sure you will see renewed efforts to right the wrongs that have been done by this legislation.

 

[silcnlayc]

Why the silence and inaction

This is what I find puzzling also...the total lack of action..response...anything??!!!!

 

[RobWin]

Why don't they try to defend the industry then? Why the silence and inaction? They benefited more than anyone. Sorry, I don't feel sorry for them, they went from billionaires to mere multi-millionaires. How they must be suffering.

All the gaming employees, poker players, webmasters, etc. that gave years making them billionaires are the ones who are going to do the real suffering. I find their (and that of all the other bigwigs) lack of action/take the money and run attitude selfish. When you're the leader of an industry that a lot of people depend on for a living, you have some responsibility to people other than yourself. That's the way I feel about it anyway. But I guess everyone has their own perspective.

I didn't expect anything from the religious-right, but I did expect to see some action on behalf of the industry leaders in the defense of the industry more than weakly worded statements to stock holders about profitablity of their narrow interests. Where's their public otrage over this moral hypocracy?

If I were a billionaire online casino magnate, I'd be doing the TV rounds and attacking the shit out of Frist, Kyl, Goodlatte et al, doing opposition research and hitting them hard in the media if they so much as jaywalked in a previous life, I'd be getting involved in turning this into an international trade dispute making a case against this illegal protectionism, I'd be demanding an explanation in the US media about why online horse racing, state lotteries, and brink and mortar casinos get a pass. I'd start a major lobbying effort as well as issue advocacy groups. I'd let the folks behind this know that I have money and this is going to cost them plenty. But the big timers just ran away instead. There's a lot more you can do with millions of dollars than spending it on posh living, parties and hookers.

Great post Rollo, I totally agree with your sentiments regarding the owners of all these operations....they could have and probably still could make a difference if only they would come together with advocates and stand up and fight this damn crazy ass legislation...

There is always Power in Numbers and Dollars !!

 

[spearmaster]

Let me make a more realistic example out of this.

You are the owner of a house. Your house is on fire.

Do you spend your time fighting the fire and putting it out first, or do you let it burn and instead attack the builders, firefighters, suppliers, and God for letting this happen to you - in the process letting the rest of your house be consumed by fire until there is nothing left but ashes?

 

[Rollo]

Well, I really don't mean to single these two people out for special abuse, I mentioned them mainly becuase I had no idea who owned PartyGaming and thought every one else would find it interesting. I find Bodog's president a million times more irritating but the point is that these very wealthy folks who are the main players in the industry have a lot of resources and really needed to get off their collective ass but didn't. Still, I'd like to see players now presuring them into somthing resembling action. Everyone can't just let Antigua to do their fighting for them.

PartyGaming is the biggest of the big boys so I'd say they owe quite a bit to American players and webmasters. Hell, Americans built Partygaming. A concerted effort could have prevented this, but I strongly suspect that it's too late now. It's easy to block legislation, it's hard to enact it, and its damn near impossible to get it reapealed.

I undertand their reasons for running and hiding but I can't help finding it really disappointing. I think the spinelessness and/or rather self-serving descion making on the part of industry leaders shouldn't be allowed to pass without due criticism.

Truth be told, I'd actually really like to see a major casino or poker exec arrested so this law can put to the test. As it is, Frist will have won the war without having had to fire a single shot. A mass surrender.

Spearmaster, I grant you that it is still early, but look what's happened so far... I never would have guessed that all these people, most with no real need to ever set foot in America and subject themselves to jail, would send up the white flag this fast. Had 888 and PartyGaming decided to fight, the others would likely have stood strong but now I think a dynamic is in place that will peal companies away one after the other until we're left with the sort of guys who begin their conversations with "Pssst, hey buddy..."

Anyway, I guess it's time to for me to get into some Tequila.

 

[spearmaster]

Still, I'd like to see players now presuring them into somthing resembling action. Everyone can't just let Antigua to do their fighting for them.

Definitely not. But again, there's another problem - most of the owners or operators are NOT Americans - and there's only so much they can do to get the government to wake up.

Instead, it's left primarily to the lobbyists, AND the people, to tell their representatives in Congress exactly what they think. The lobbyists have been active but not as active as I personally would have liked - and the people have spoken out on numerous occasions only to see their efforts thwarted by political wrangling.

The first thing you can do is make sure you cast your vote in the next election. Don't return the representatives that have let you down in this instance.

The next - is to use every channel at your disposal - whether that be your representatives mailbox, fax or phone, your local TV or radio news channel, and even your banks - not to blame them but to give them the ammo they need to stand up to this crazy legislation.

Finally, show them that their legislation is for naught - by using LEGAL channels - for the time being including Neteller - to continue to participate in what you should rightfully be given complete freedom to participate in.

PartyGaming is the biggest of the big boys so I'd say they owe quite a bit to American players and webmasters. Hell, Americans built Partygaming. A concerted effort could have prevented this, but I strongly suspect that it's too late now. It's easy to block legislation, it's hard to enact it, and its damn near impossible to get it reapealed.

Again, I think you are missing the whole picture. The whole industry has been behind a lot of movement. Concerted efforts were made - many attempts at blocking legislation were successful. This one slipped by because your representative in Congress was too spineless to stand up to what he felt was right - this was literally an "I'll scratch your back, you scratch my back" effort.

I undertand their reasons for running and hiding but I can't help finding it really disappointing. I think the spinelessness and/or rather self-serving descion making on the part of industry leaders shouldn't be allowed to pass without due criticism.

Again, they're not running and hiding. They're trying to put out the fire first.

Truth be told, I'd actually really like to see a major casino or poker exec arrested so this law can put to the test. As it is, Frist will have won the war without having had to fire a single shot. A mass surrender.

David Carruthers is already unwittingly serving this role on behalf of the online gambling industry. We don't need another example made of another major company to show that this legislation will cause untold harm to people outside the industry as operators start to go underground.

Spearmaster, I grant you that it is still early, but look what's happened so far... I never would have guessed that all these people, most with no real need to ever set foot in America and subject themselves to jail, would send up the white flag this fast. Had 888 and PartyGaming decided to fight, the others would likely have stood strong but now I think a dynamic is in place that will peal companies away one after the other until we're left with the sort of guys who begin their conversations with "Pssst, hey buddy..."

These two are public companies responsible to their shareholders first and foremost. If you were talking about a private company, then I might actually agree - but no public company can take up this fight at the expense of their shareholders if they want to stay in business.

 

[Rollo]

Ok, Spear, if I can call you that, one more and then I'm outtie...

I feel at this point we're wasting words on these folks, but I'll say that I repsectfully disagree.

Foriengers can make just as big an impact as an American, they're banning foreign gambling not foreign speech. The US is an open society as far as media spending and influence buying goes. I'm not sure I agree on the pubilcally traded front either... The major shareholders can encourage the CEO to take any stance they wanted. Just look at the deserved schlacking the Google founders took over censorship in China. Google's a publically traded company but we all know who calls the shots.

Anyway, I'll just say that IMHO, what you mention isn't what I would call a major effort and from where I'm sitting it sure looks like a lot of running and hiding. In one day, the major players have folded or signaled their intention to fold. Most of this is pretty subjective, but I do have to say that Caruthers doesn't serve as a test case in any way becuase he is alleged to have breached the Wire Act which is a different bit of law than the one we're discussing in this thread.

Anyway, I really don't want to sink this thread on this tangent as we're getting a bit off topic, but I'd like to say that I'm not 100% sure I agree that I'm the one missing the big picture here, Congress did stand up for what they believe in - and that's stopping online gambling. This thing passed the house overwhelmingly and the only reason it stalled in the Senate was becuase a couple Senators put a secret hold on it most likely to protect state horse racing insterests.

This fight is about protecting principles of freedom, fairness and the rights of US gamblers from the whims of Congress as they try to cater to what they think, I think mistakingly, are the attitides of the majority (not to mention a whole bunch of special interests who actually understood how to work the Congress).

Anyway, in today's America this flight will take a heap of money and some real leadership neither of which as far as I can see will be forthcoming. And that's a shame. I would have liked to see a real fight.

I hope all that didn't sound too bad, I know I'm not worthy :notworthy

 

[spearmaster]

Ok, Spear, if I can call you that, one more and then I'm outtie...

As long as whatever you call me doesn't start with "B" or "A" or "F", I'm sure we'll get along just fine

Foriengers can make just as big an impact as an American, they're banning foreign gambling not foreign speech.

The whole issue here is that foreigners do not have the right to elect American representatives of Congress - and furthermore American lawmakers are even less likely to listen to non-Americans (as if they listen to anyone anyhow!)

The US is an open society as far as media spending and influence buying goes. I'm not sure I agree on the pubilcally traded front either... The major shareholders can encourage the CEO to take any stance they wanted. Just look at the deserved schlacking the Google founders took over censorship in China. Google's a publically traded company but we all know who calls the shots.

We're not at that stage yet. Keep in mind that it's only been one business day since the legislation was passed. First you put out the fire. Then you talk with the other owners and decide what to do next. Otherwise, the house burns down and then there's no need to discuss what to do next - since there's nothing left.

Anyway, I'll just say that IMHO, what you mention isn't what I would call a major effort and from where I'm sitting it sure looks like a lot of running and hiding. In one day, the major players have folded or signaled their intention to fold.

The key word both 888 and Party used was "suspension". Their statements also include words similar to "until such time as we have a clearer picture of how this legislation will impact our business".

Most of this is pretty subjective, but I do have to say that Caruthers doesn't serve as a test case in any way becuase he is alleged to have breached the Wire Act which is a different bit of law than the one we're discussing in this thread.

For all intents and purposes, the reason Carruthers was arrested is because they don't want online gambling or sportsbetting. Had there been a push instead to regulate/legalize online gambling or sportsbetting, it's highly unlikely that they would have made an example out of Carruthers for the reason of breaching the Wire Act.

Anyway, I really don't want to sink this thread on this tangent as we're getting a bit off topic, but I'd like to say that I'm not 100% sure I agree that I'm the one missing the big picture here, Congress did stand up for what they believe in - and that's stopping online gambling. This thing passed the house overwhelmingly and the only reason it stalled in the Senate was becuase a couple Senators put a secret hold on it most likely to protect state horse racing insterests.

They didn't want to stop online gambling because they wanted to protect the morals of the citizens of America - if this were so they would have banned pornography.

They didn't want to stop online gambling because of alleged money laundering or funding of terrorism - that's about as lousy an excuse as any because they have not once produced any evidence.

They fought online gambling because they needed a star to hang their hats on, and undoubtedly because they had backers that wanted to protect other interests.

In this aspect I will agree - had some strong online gambling interests thrown around a few million dollars, it's entirely possible this might never have come to pass.

This fight is about protecting principles of freedom, fairness and the rights of US gamblers from the whims of Congress as they try to cater to what they think, I think mistakingly, are the attitides of the majority (not to mention a whole bunch of special interests who actually understood how to work the Congress).

Agreed.

 

[greedygirl]

Rollo is not far off track, however, focusing on only a couple of major players is unrealistic.

The fact of the matter is that there has been no COLLECTIVE effort made by the industry. Sure, most of the big guys have been dropping money into assorted lobbyists pockets, however, this has continued to be mostly ineffective. The one time a lobbyist WAS effective, it was of all people, Abramoff. We all know that his success was crucial to the direction we now find ourselves in.

It seems incomprehensible that an industry worth billions, which shells out literally hundreds of millions in marketing dollars, did not have a collective plan to bring the questionable US status to the public forefront and moreover, create a united front to challenge the US stance.

For example...

When California Indian tribes wanted to bring casino gaming into the state, a very public campaign was waged. It was waged via multiple snail mail information packs, newspaper, billboard and television advertising and they enlisted the aid of the biggest PR companies available. Solid facts were presented...opposing views were presented. Without this sort of plan, most Californians would not even have been aware of the issue and Indian gaming would not have made it onto the state's soil.

Rather than earmarking marketing funds towards new players, it would seem to have been a wiser move to split off 30% towards a US campaign to prevent the ignorance and apathy we're now mired in.

We were all shocked when David Carruthers was arrested and it was a stunning moment for this industry. What is most disturbing about this is how Carruthers was unable to make bail. In terms of this industry and salaries, a one million dollar bail (essentially $100,000 up front with property as bond) would not seem to be something difficult to pull together. It was stunning to see Carruthers sit in jail for nine days before he was able to comply with the bail requirements. I just cannot understand why the industry did not rally behind Carruthers, showing a united front, and not only pay the bail, but pledge to pay all of his legal defense fees. Instead, Carruthers has been essentially "fed to the lions," and is now something of a parriah.

Over the past few days, I've spoken with several operators and I've asked why there has been no collective efforts. EVERY single one of those I've asked have had the same response...

"We need to take the road of caution and we cannot afford to have our names out there."

Each time, my response is the same...

"Why? It's not as if you'd be coming to the US now, anyhow. What is there to lose at this point?"

And in each case, I'm still waiting for that answer.

It's time for the industry to band together in a big way...and bring along the big bucks. We can no longer hope that Antigua or people like Michael Corfman will fight these battles on their own. This is an industry issue and must be addressed BY the industry.