"People don't want to come back to work"

[greasemonkey]

It is important to give credit to sources, whatever the source. It's also important to understand that posters and bloggers are being sued for posting content without permission and/or a link back to the source.
It's not senseless to point out that Reagan raised taxes every year of his presidency except the first year and 1988. And he lowered taxes for the rich. It happened.

Can you show me your source for this? An actual source not an op ed?

I agree Swampwitch actually. i should have posted my sources. However, by making that the point of your arguement you are derailing my points, which are backed in real, statistical proof. History happened. Go look at the numbers. If Reagans tax cuts were so bad then why was the economy so good under him? especially in comparison with the failed economic practices of socialistic regimes? (Like Carters for example).

 

[voltage1]

You could not find a job for 99 weeks within 200 miles of your home? Not any job at all? Midnight stock clerk? Gas station attendant? Waiter? .

So NOW your gonna call me a liar??? If I said it here....its the truth !!

So, you are also saying that you have paid in more or at least equal value to what you withdrew for 99 weeks also?

HELL YES in 32 years ??? that amount and more!!!

Even if that were the case it is certainly not the case for most. What usually is the case is that this money is taken from some citizens and given to another.

maybe you should read-up on the subject to better understand how it works ..if you haven't paid any money into the fund to begin with ..you cant even draw ANY unemployment !! the extension of benefits is based solely on the amount in which you paid in !!!

"You say I should sell my house in my middle class neighborhood , the one My wife and I have lived in for 30 years and raised our kids and are raising our grand kids in???"

ummmm... YES! If you cannot make enough money to afford the house that you are currently living in then YES by all means please sell it. To NOT sell it is silly unless you CAN afford it. By taking others money to subsidize your own lifestyle then you are asking them and their famlies to do with less. They are not the one out of a job - you are. YOU should do with less, not them.

OKAY!! on $300 a week where ya want me to move too?? hmmmmm OH i know ...lemme move into the projects and get on food stamps ...so NOW you can REALLY subsidize my income for me ....ya that will work out real good!!!

Live within your means. If your means change then you should change your lifestyle (Yes, even if you have to sell the house or some of the cars that you paid off) you should not be asking to have the government take money from other tax payers and give it to you so that you don't have to live within your means.

Okay DAD I will try to do better oh BTW I changed my lifestyle alright!!! like I said ...I used A lot of savings to fill in the gaps that $300 a week leaves in making all the bill payments..Sold All the vehicles that I didn't need , along with most everything else.Its not like I was able to enjoy this time off like some sort of Government funded extended vacation, sipping on margaritas by the pool all day!!! maybe a teenager can live on $300 a week but certainly not anyone with ANY amount of monthly bills

Some of this sounds like I am being cold and unfeeling but that is not the case at all. In the end, if people are self sufficient (i.e. no govt. handouts) then they will be more productive and more happy in the end... and have more to show for their efforts to boot.

YOU ARE Being insensitive !!!
unless you have been there or experienced it then maybe you should sit back and be thankful that you have not had to go through it!!!

 

[ksech]

The government is insane! I stand in line at the grocery store and watch people who get food stamps eating 100 times better than I am. I go to the doctors and watch people walk away not having to pay for the $175 visit because they have medicaid (It costs me $500 a month for health insurance). I go to the pharmecy and pay out the nose for prescriptions and watch people walk away with the same prescriptions not having to pay a cent because they have medicaid. I watch senior citizens go without needed medications cause they can't afford it. Am I angry over this? YOU BET!


My son drives a 21 year old vehicle. He has worked from the time he was 16. Has never taken a vacation, and in all that time has called in sick MAYBE 3 times. He rents a small place. So, he should take a job which will cost him an average of $200 a week in fuel to do the job? That will give him MAYBE $40 a week to live on. Okay, sell the vehicle for one which will get better gas milage, now there's a car payment to factor in. So, now he has nothing to live on to pay for living expenses, guess he could live in his car, that will reduce having to pay rent and utilities (electric/gas to fuel the home, can't pay for car insurance so I guess he doesn't really need the job after all, no money to go to the doctor IF he should get sick, no money to eat) BUT THAT'S OKAY CAUSE HE HAS A JOB!!!!!

Our unemployment column is MAYBE half a page. College kids can't get jobs because there aren't any to be had. In the last 3 years our unemployment has gone skyhigh. The job my son was able to land had approximately 7000 people apply. There were only 20 positions available. How sad is that?

Am I angry over the people who are receiving benefits for which they never paid in a dime for? YOU BET! Am I angry our politicians could care less about the little people who voted them into their cushy jobs? YOU BET!

Back in 1990 I was hospitalized for 3 months. I wasn't able to go back to work for another 3 months. Went to social services to see if I could get 1 months worth of food stamps to feed my 2 small children. I was denied, because my husband made $5.00 a month too much. If he quit his job we would be eligible for the whole shebang... food stamps, medicaid, HEAP (heating assistance). The system is F*cked up!!!!

The whole scenerio sucks. Don't make judgements about people who are on unemployment. Yes, there are some who know how to work the system. Yes, there are abusers in the system. BUT, IMO, there are many who are trying to sustain a living taking jobs way below their means. Should they give up their cars, their homes just to say they have a job? NOT if the job means they have to live below poverty! Sell the car, sell the home...then how do they get to a job? Where/how do they provide shelter for their families?


***Going back to my little insane corner of the world****

 

[silcnlayc]

ksech: The system is F*cked up!!!!

Yep, you hit the nail on the head...

.

 

[greasemonkey]

I'm not saying anything like "live in poverty"... blah, blah. But what I am saying is that if you have a home, a car, a cable TV bill, a cell phone etc. then what you should do is to live within your means.

If you only make enough money to live in a tiny apartment and drive an old beat up vehicle then that is what you should do until you have increased your income.
You do not have a right to take other people's money so that you don't have to do with less. By doing so the people who are getting their money confiscated are doing with less. You are correct they system or really the whole concept is wrong. Some of you seem angry that I am pointing out that fact. It is just wrong to have money taken from people and given to others.
I'm not calling you a bad person because you have had a bad break. If you do believe that it is good to take from others or have others take from you then we will never see eye to eye. That concept is for socialists and marxists. It is not for a self reliant, individual independent strong American minded person. That type of concept weakens people. It weakens countries. It is a failed concept and has failed throughout history. It is weak minded.

So the arguement seems to keep coming up that " Why should I have to move from my home? Why should I take a job that pays less? Why should I do something I am not happy with? Why should I reduce my lifestyle?" And the simple answer is that you must because you cannot afford your current lifestyle and it is insane to ask others to flip that bill for you.

The argument should not be "well I paid enough in over the years that I should be able to collect". That is short sited. The real answer is that it should never be implemented in the first place where the govt. confiscates your personal property and gives it to another. That should be left for charities, churches and that sort of thing. It should never be done by the govt.

In voltages reply he says "ok DAD...." So he is saying "don't talk down to me like your my father" but he is OK with the idea of the govt. being his or somebody elses mommy and taking total care of them while in between jobs. That is nonsense.

And for all of you that are preaching to me about "you don't know until you have been there" Well guess what??? I HAVE been there and done that. I was in a mill for 12 years and lost my job. I had to sell my home and rent an apt. with a wife and 3 kids. I had to alter my lifestyle tremendously and my kids had to go to a worse school for a few years. I finally got back to the level of job that I had before but it took a few years. I didn't whine and cry and give up and ask the govt. to sponsor my lifestyle for those years. No, instead I took on a few part time jobs and it was not easy at all nor was it fun. I did get frustrated and angry but I kept working my tail off and finally landed a great job that I have been at now for 8 years. So, I have done it and so can anyone else if you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and live within your means and stop asking the govt. to baby sit you.
it makes me incredibly angry that people think that they should not have to live within the structures of the income that they are generating. As if somehow they should never have to do without or take a step back. They are perfectly happy thinking it is ok to take from others. It is phooey, total and complete phooey.

If you can only find a job that makes $300 per week then how about taking some gumption and looking for a job even if it is 1000 miles away and moving there to work? Our forefathers did that and even more to find work. You are not owed a living HOW you want it and WHERE you want it. You have the right to the opportunity. Not the right to the results. The results are on your shoulders. Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it.

 

[just play]

I was wondering how long do you all think it takes to sell a home? Do you really believe it gets put on the market and the same day it's sold?

There are houses around here that's been on the market 1 year. By then you would have already found a job. So it's kind of ridiculous when you think about it.

To Greasemonkey...how long did it take to sell your home, I'm curious?

I also find it comical that everyone is "high fiving" and saying Silc is an inspiration (I'm not ragging on you Silc, honestly, I just think this is strange) for doing what? Did she cure cancer? Give a kidney to a sick child? Donate her winning lottery ticket to the church up the street?

Ohhh, I remember she worked. Like millions of other people. Like most of you posting on this thread.

This reminds me of a time when I was in college. It was an English class and we all had to write a paper about ourselves. I gave birth to a daughter at 19 years of age, she is now 20. And told my story about that. This other girl gave birth to a child who she gave up for adoption...who do you think got the standing ovation?

What is wrong with this picture? I gave up my life to take care of my daughter, worked 2 jobs at a time just to take care of her and myself. Just this morning she called for a ride home, she was a few miles away and slept at her friends house, and didn't drive there...I said without a blink of an eye, be right there.

OKAY!! on $300 a week where ya want me to move too?? hmmmmm OH i know ...lemme move into the projects and get on food stamps ...so NOW you can REALLY subsidize my income for me ....ya that will work out real good!!!

Exactly...you can't win.

 

[greasemonkey]

It took me about 7 months to sell my home. I had enough in the bank to cover any shortcomings for a decent period. What I mean is that I was making 45k per year at that time and didn't have my bills and expenses equaling my bring home pay. That is how I had enough of a reserve to get by until the house sold. I didn't live on my savings solely but I needed to eat into my savings and even some retirement money that I had along with the jobs I was working to get by for a bit.

There are basically 2 factions here:

Faction A is bemoaning their circumstances and have a negative outlook ("i can't find work, nothing pays good, not my fault, need my home, cant sell fast enough, shouldnt have to lose things, nothing good out there, if I sell house then cant live anywhere, need a good car....blah, blah")

Faction B has a positive outlook regardless of their situation. (I can find work somewhere, I can make ends meet during lean times, I can support myself, I don't need a nanny taking care of me, I am independent and resilient).

It is clearly annoying to Faction B types when Faction A types cry and whine and make excuses rather than just going out and DOING something for themselves rather than wait to have something done for them.


Regarding Silc being an inspiration. I am in awe that you speak so freely of needing assistance and wanting others to provide for you then cant figure out why it is inspirational for somebody who was in that exact circumstance to pick themselves up without sucking from her neighbors and fellow citizens and making a good go of it herself? Then succeeding? You think that is nothing spectacular and should not be awarded accolades? But yet, you think it is deserving of somebody else to feel pity for themselves and get her to pay their way even though she earned what she had?

I am in awe of that. Really, I am dumbfounded of that view.

 

[just play]

It took me about 7 months to sell my home. I had enough in the bank to cover any shortcomings for a decent period. What I mean is that I was making 45k per year at that time and didn't have my bills and expenses equaling my bring home pay. That is how I had enough of a reserve to get by until the house sold. I didn't live on my savings solely but I needed to eat into my savings and even some retirement money that I had along with the jobs I was working to get by for a bit.



YOU had enough in the bank.
There are basically 2 factions here:

Faction A is bemoaning their circumstances and have a negative outlook ("i can't find work, nothing pays good, not my fault, need my home, cant sell fast enough, shouldnt have to lose things, nothing good out there, if I sell house then cant live anywhere, need a good car....blah, blah")

Faction B has a positive outlook regardless of their situation. (I can find work somewhere, I can make ends meet during lean times, I can support myself, I don't need a nanny taking care of me, I am independent and resilient).

It is clearly annoying to Faction B types when Faction A types cry and whine and make excuses rather than just going out and DOING something for themselves rather than wait to have something done for them.

Why do you think people are crying and whining that are on unemployment? That is not the case of ALL the people.


Regarding Silc being an inspiration. I am in awe that you speak so freely of needing assistance and wanting others to provide for you then cant figure out why it is inspirational for somebody who was in that exact circumstance to pick themselves up without sucking from her neighbors and fellow citizens and making a good go of it herself? Then succeeding? You think that is nothing spectacular and should not be awarded accolades? But yet, you think it is deserving of somebody else to feel pity for themselves and get her to pay their way even though she earned what she had?

I speak so freely about needing assistance, because I know it could happen to anyone. I am not so high on my horse to think this could never happen to me.

To me, working is nothing to be in AWE over, millions of people do it. To tell you the truth, no I don't think it's spectacular...what I do think is spectacular are the examples I gave...giving a kidney to a child in need, finding a cure for cancer/etc. THOSE deserve accolades, NOT someone who works.

 

[greasemonkey]

perhaps I should not have said "crying and whining" I didnt mean to be so disrespectful actually and now that I read it I can see it could be taken like that but it wasnt exactly how i wanted it to sound.
What I mean is that faction A is thinking of reasons why they need nanny govt. help. Faction B thinks of how they can do it themselves. Doing it yourself is how it should be done. Having govt. interfere and give you things just make you more dependent on them and takes away liberties and freedoms of others. Any time your personal property (like your money!) is taken it is a horrible act.

Right you are. I did have enough. You are implying that others don't. My question is "why not"? I know there can be a multitude of reasons and circumstances but for the most part it is because if someone makes 50k per year they live right on the edge, borrowing as much as possible to live to the utmost of their earnings rather than live on less and save more. It makes no difference often if you make 50k or 150k per year. Most people still live right up to the edge of their earning potential. So what happens if something happens to interupt your income flow like losing your job? People automatically want other peoples money to offset the gap in their income to expenditure ratio. They want this cuz they don't think they should "lose" what they "had". This is regardless if you make 50k or 250k per year. The truth is that if you make 50k per year, then there are people out there making it on a lot less than you. They may not live in as nice a neighborhood or have some of the things you have but they are making it. Just like you don't have all the nice things the guy that makes 250k per year has and your neighborhood is not as nice as his. It doesnt mean that he couldnt make it on only 50k. He would just have to downsize his home and have less expensive things. Similarly, you could make it on much less with a lesser job that only pays a portion of what your previous job was. You would just have to lower your living arrangements. Maybe sell your home or rent it out while you rent something more affordable to your ability to earn. Maybe trade in your car for an older, less desirable model that is cheaper. Get rid of the cell phones. Stop buying cable TV each month,..... and on and on. You can definitely make it. I know, I did.
The difference in silc's situation is that she worked and she worked at lesser jobs and worked hard to get back on her feet. She didn't just "work" at a job that was her dream job or something that was really good paying. She struggled, she persevered and she overcame all on her own without begging the govt. to steal it from you and give it to her.
No, it is not like creating a cure for cancer but it sure beats coming up with 15 different reasons why she needs taken care of and why buckling down and making the hard choices and following through with them wont work. She Knew what the right thing (NOT the easiest thing) to do was and she did it. She didn't make all the excuses in the world of why it might not work. She just did it. That is inspirational. Pity for yourself or your position is not.

 

[greasemonkey]

what I mean by "negative thinking" is that I am sure you are all good people. Just play I am sure that I would very much like you if we lived in the same neighborhood. you seem like a legitimately nice person and I value your thoughts.

but I just looked back through this whole thread to see what it was that i was feeling was a negative vibe from the "faction A" thinkers. That is the thinking I branded as self pity types who think of reasons why they CANT or why they need someone else to do for them. Just look at the quotes:

In the 6 months he was on unemployment this last time, he had 1 job interview. The job was 75 miles away at minimum wage in a field which he had no experience in whatsoever (selling life insurance door-to-door).

Nothing is a guarantee anymore. There is no job security anymore.

The way your thinking is...if someone was making 50,000 a year, owns a home and a car, have children, they should now take a job at a gas station?

You also said something about not having someone else pay for your lifestyle. A person is not going to sell their home that took them their whole lives to pay off, to settle for a gas station job. Or sell their brand new car they bought when they had this 50,000 a year job.



A person CANNOT pay these kind of bills on a gas station job, or just any job, it is impossible. So people should get off unemployment to take these menial jobs for what? Just to say "I'm not on unemployment anymore" to make some people happy. Then what happens to all these bills? Should people stop paying them and get crediters after them and in some cases (house tax) jailtime is a possibility.
.

In 1997 USA wasn't in the position we are in now.

Also you made a deal with your boss, how many employers can you do that with these days?

Everything is VERY different now, i talk to the people on my street...believe me it's VERY different on the job hunt now.

So you want people to jump at the first job at walmart or where ever instead of holding out an extra month or two to find a suitable job?

Please.

Those want ads are in YOUR area....It also depends where you live. I live in a very small town, and even in the "big" city that is 15-20 minutes away, it is hard there too.

I was wondering how long do you all think it takes to sell a home? Do you really believe it gets put on the market and the same day it's sold?

There are houses around here that's been on the market 1 year. By then you would have already found a job. So it's kind of ridiculous when you think about it.





Exactly...you can't win.

 

[racefanrob]

Usually political differences of opinions result in nothing good but this thread is incredibly interesting and pretty much friendly.
I am pretty passionate about politics especially because I am an American and I am very much not liking the turn our country has taken towards socialism under the current administration and our ultra liberal congress. It is very scary and you can see all of the damages happening and the worst that will happen if they are not corrected.
All of that being said I have to say that if you choose taking money from the government over making your own money, even if that amount is smaller, then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. People should be less thinking of what benefits them more and more thinking of what benefits the country more. Taking government handouts is not good for the country.

 

[winbig]

Handouts? How is unemployment a handout? The employers pay for unemployment insurance.

To facilitate this program, the U.S. Congress passed the Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA), which authorizes the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to collect an annual federal employer tax used to fund state workforce agencies. FUTA covers the costs of administering the Unemployment Insurance and Job Service programs in all states. In addition, FUTA pays one-half of the cost of extended unemployment benefits (during periods of high unemployment) and provides for a fund from which states may borrow, if necessary, to pay benefits. As originally established, the states paid the federal government.[18]

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I'm not sure about other states, but unemployment benefits are actually taxable here in PA.

 

[just play]

what I mean by "negative thinking" is that I am sure you are all good people. Just play I am sure that I would very much like you if we lived in the same neighborhood. you seem like a legitimately nice person and I value your thoughts.

but I just looked back through this whole thread to see what it was that i was feeling was a negative vibe from the "faction A" thinkers. That is the thinking I branded as self pity types who think of reasons why they CANT or why they need someone else to do for them. Just look at the quotes:

I just had a whole post typed out and lost it.

I'll try and make it quick....I 100% agree with your first paragraph.

I think the negative thinking comes from, we live in the USA, the land of the free. We are in the worst position we have been in in decades.

When people go for a job (even walmart/gas station/whatever) there are literally hundreds of people going for the same job. Have you seen the percentage of people out of work?

Even the most possitive person in the world will eventually feel a bit negative if the same thing keep happening over and over again.

I am one for going out and doing your best, and I don't believe people that need a little help are self pitying (sp?) or trying to have someone take care of them, they just need a little help along the way. Of course like others have said there ARE many people that take advantage, but there are also many people who do not.

In my other post that disappeared, I went and talked to the wife of one of the families last night, she finally got a job, I am not sure how long she was out for? They are a wonderful family and if I could only raise my daughters like they raise their sons I would be delighted. The husband has not gotten a job yet. He gets the same line from many interviews..."it's down to him and one other" or something similiar, then doesn't get the job. They are not the type of people who take "hand outs" as you put it, they just need a little help along the way.

 

[just play]

Handouts? How is unemployment a handout? The employers pay for unemployment insurance.

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I'm not sure about other states, but unemployment benefits are actually taxable here in PA.

Yup, I looked it up last night.

Taxable here in Massachusetts as well.

 

[greasemonkey]

I think it is just ludicrous to tax people on a social welfare benefit like unemployment or social security. It defeats the purpose totally.

if I can make a note on winbigs post: While it may be paid for by employers, it is not a private donation that these employers make. They are citizens too and money is being confiscated from their pockets and literally stolen by the govt.
when this happens then the quality of life for everyone goes down. To make up that difference of what is stolen from him the employer will pass that cost off in many ways, including raising prices, lowering wages... etc. it hurts everyone and is bad. It is still stealing from some and giving to others.

 

[winbig]

I think it is just ludicrous to tax people on a social welfare benefit like unemployment or social security. It defeats the purpose totally.

if I can make a note on winbigs post: While it may be paid for by employers, it is not a private donation that these employers make. They are citizens too and money is being confiscated from their pockets and literally stolen by the govt.
when this happens then the quality of life for everyone goes down. To make up that difference of what is stolen from him the employer will pass that cost off in many ways, including raising prices, lowering wages... etc. it hurts everyone and is bad. It is still stealing from some and giving to others.

So social security should be nixed, too?

Over the years, people get way more out of social security and medicare than they pay in, that's for sure.

 

[greasemonkey]

So social security should be nixed, too?

Over the years, people get way more out of social security and medicare than they pay in, that's for sure.

Well, firstly, I was saying if the govt. is going to give out social welfare benefits THEN they have the idea to tax them it is silly. They re taxing taxes. It is silly and defeating of the point.

So i just wanted to clarify that.

but yes, certainly they should repeal social security. it is in the RED. It is non sustainable. It is total wealth redistribution, it is not as good as private savings/investing. It is very bad and should never have been implemented and certainly should be nixed.

What really worries me is this socialized medicine. This is probably for another thread but what a horrific thing to try and implement on the American people. The public was vastly against it and it was railroaded down our collective throats against our collective will. I sure hope that November shows Pelosi, Reed and the rest of the socialists the door in commanding fashion.

 

[Mavin1]

I can't help but think how much you remind me of Lost2much.

 

[racefanrob]

Handouts? How is unemployment a handout? The employers pay for unemployment insurance.


I wasn't talking specifically about unemployment. I was talking as a whole. The country is too socialistic in America right now.

If it's wrong to have values similar to our founding fathers then I am wrong. I don't believe in a big federal government that over reaches and becomes to big and encompassing. If our founding fathers could see what was going on today they would cringe. This is exactly what they tried to avoid happening. They wanted somewhere where the people could be free. Free to succeed and free to fail with very limited government interference and very little government control over your life. It is a gross distortion of what it is supposed to be now.

 

[racefanrob]

What really worries me is this socialized medicine. This is probably for another thread but what a horrific thing to try and implement on the American people. The public was vastly against it and it was railroaded down our collective throats against our collective will. I sure hope that November shows Pelosi, Reed and the rest of the socialists the door in commanding fashion.

This isn't a new concept. Reagan warned us about this way back in 1961. The socialists have been trying to force this on us for a long time.

Watch this video

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[Mavin1]

Handouts? How is unemployment a handout? The employers pay for unemployment insurance.


I wasn't talking specifically about unemployment. I was talking as a whole. The country is too socialistic in America right now.

If it's wrong to have values similar to our founding fathers then I am wrong. I don't believe in a big federal government that over reaches and becomes to big and encompassing. If our founding fathers could see what was going on today they would cringe. This is exactly what they tried to avoid happening. They wanted somewhere where the people could be free. Free to succeed and free to fail with very limited government interference and very little government control over your life. It is a gross distortion of what it is supposed to be now.[/QUOTE]

Got to agree with you. Government has gone rogue a long time ago and are working with no fear of breaking the constitution, of the people, or anything else.
As is said, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Mavin1]

Wrong thread.

 

[felicie]

So social security should be nixed, too?

Over the years, people get way more out of social security and medicare than they pay in, that's for sure.

I've always wondered how that all came out in the wash? LOL I remember asking my dad 'who writes the big check to cover all this crap?' His eyes would brighten as he suggested (again) I take an economics course the next year. I'd like to find just one thing he was wrong about

 

[felicie]

Wrong thread.

Should we start a 'return to federalism' thread? Yay or Nay? ah the hell with this stuff, let's go paint something pretty.

 

[winbig]

I've always wondered how that all came out in the wash? LOL I remember asking my dad 'who writes the big check to cover all this crap?' His eyes would brighten as he suggested (again) I take an economics course the next year. I'd like to find just one thing he was wrong about

Who covers it? For the most part, I would assume that most of the coverage comes from those that die before they're able to collect SS and medicare, and have no family that is eligible to file a claim for survivors benefits....