Major Absolute Poker Issue

[lojo]

Handcuffs

 

[pokeraddict]

Why not a voice of dissent and call for absolute proof. Lots0 never denied affiliation, freely admitted it, and gave examples of rogues s/he has kicked to the curb. I imagine when lots0 is satisfied, you will not see a louder voice condemning AP.

He's been wanting to see the headers and says once headers have been posted that have not been altered he will be convinced. The user just asked I delete his email which should be no big deal.

Keep in mind we are in day 4 of the breaking story and AP still has not said anything even while BW, Pocket 5's, NWP and certainly more large affiliates have blacklisted and delisted them and while the forums assume the emails are true. Wouldn't you think if this was all BS AP would have denied the legitimacy of the master hh by now?

There is so much other stuff about to go public. It will make your head spin.

 

[pokeraddict]

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Scroll down to Adanthar's post. Amazing stuff. No wonder AP has been so quiet and their short denial. BTW Scott Tom was the one spamming 2+2 as Pokermachine. Pokermachine shared the ip with The Watchdog at 2+2. It has really blown up.

 

[ThodorisK]

How many times do I have to repeat this? Statistical evidence for cheating is nothing else than bad luck itself. A bad luck which had 1% to happen is a statistical evidence for cheating (of a strong degree). But even a bad luck which had 49% to happen is also a statistical evidence for cheating (of an ignorable degree).They are both statistical evidences for cheating, because the only difference between them is the degree. You might call the 1% one as evidence, the 49% one as ignorable, and a 10% one as indication and not evidence. But they are all indications of a degree.

Now, when one plays many thousands of hands, a run of an extreme bad luck is highly probable to happen. So one must consider the whole hand history of a player in a particular casino since he started playing there.

But in the case of Absolute, if I am right, some very rare bad lucks happened to more than one players, right? And they all lost by particular other "superlucky" "players". But also in this case one must take in account the whole hand history of both the winning and the losing players since they started playing there. So it is getting extremelly complicated.

But the bottom line is that we roughly know that what happened had a very small probability to happen. Now what kind of more evidence are people asking? Are they saying that what happened was just coincedental and the result of very rare but REAL bad luck? Or are they just confused of what statistical evidence is?

I have not condidered all other things such as "chip dumping" etc that happened in the case of Absolute. I guess these facts raise even higher the probability of chating than the stats by themselves.

 

[The Watchdog]

Why the hell am I been linked to that guy??

Really weird... at 2+2 they claimed we were the same person.

I have never used another alias at Casinomeister, eog, therx, 2+2 or pocketfives...

Anyways, I really think its quite bad what is happening with Absolute... on the other hand I really dislike tons of forum posters pretending to know about Poker security and everyone goes around analyzing hands and figures they don't even get.

Something funny is going on with these guys, don't know what though... It could be a group of professional scammers, and inside job, world war III, what ever... ONE THING IS FOR SURE... the idea of a super account is just the most paranoid and stupid idea I have ever herd.

Any ways, lets hope the people that were affected by this issue get some compensation...

 

[Adanthar]

Why the hell am I been linked to that guy??

Really weird... at 2+2 they claimed we were the same person.

I have never used another alias at Casinomeister, eog, therx, 2+2 or pocketfives...

Anyways, I really think its quite bad what is happening with Absolute... on the other hand I really dislike tons of forum posters pretending to know about Poker security and everyone goes around analyzing hands and figures they don't even get.

Something funny is going on with these guys, don't know what though... It could be a group of professional scammers, and inside job, world war III, what ever... ONE THING IS FOR SURE... the idea of a super account is just the most paranoid and stupid idea I have ever herd.

Any ways, lets hope the people that were affected by this issue get some compensation...

Hi, The Watchdog,

Last we met you on 2+2, you were posting

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, started by this OP:

POTSLAMMER
stranger


Reged: 08/21/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Costa Rica

You'd better fucking hope they get compensated, Scott.

 

[patient77]

This is the entire problem... you guys just keep assuming... You see No proof .... You just assume the people telling you AP is cheating are telling the truth.

You assume they have the proof.

You assume AP is cheating... without seeing any of the evidence yourself.

You just keep assuming... That is your choice.

My choice is to see the evidence myself before I condemn.

did you watch the tournament that was posted here where it was obvious the winner had access to everyones hole cards? since you still aren't convinced,
is it your belief that there is a conspiracy and that the hand histories were all fake and made up by people with nothing better to do?


i have no idea why i responded to this guy, but im just curious as to what his beliefs are. EVERYONE with pokertracker and tournament results is in on this conspiracy to prove this online site is rigged, and lotso isn't going to be fooled!!!!

 

[lots0]

I imagine when lots0 is satisfied, you will not see a louder voice condemning AP.

Thank You.

He's been wanting to see the headers and says once headers have been posted that have not been altered he will be convinced.

That is not quite what I said. What I wanted to see was the entire (complete) unedited email including the email headers. I still have not seen that.

I have requested from AP a copy of the hand history from the tournament that pokeraddict gave in this thread. I guess we will see what happens.

If they provide me a copy of the hand history, I would like to compare it to the hand history that is being talked about but not published in it's unedited form.

If it is alright with CM, I'll post the entire hand history from AP here after I receive it.

If AP does not supply me with the hand history, I guess I'll have no choice but to consider them a Rouge, as they have always supplied me with hand histories whenever I have requested one. I'll give AP until this Friday.

Over the past years, I have received several hand histories from AP and I know it should only take them 24 hours or less to provide the hand history.

Of course we really will need to see the unedited version of this email as well. So if CM is willing how about posting it here as well? So we can all compare them?

@Pokeraddict
So far how many people have said they have played in the tournament and agree with the edited hands that have been posted in the forums?

@Gary Watson
So did you really think you were exposing me??? If I were allowed to call people names here in CM's forum, I would call you an asshole, but as we are not supposed to call people names here at Casinomeister... I won't

 

[Adanthar]

You know what, I'm not done with you yet, Scott.

Pokermachine:

Login Name: scotttom
Display Name:
Member Title:
Name Color:
Real Email Address: [edited]
Display Email Address:
Full Name:
Registration / First IP: 02/26/04 08:54 PM - 196.40.37.120
Last Post / IP: 06/22/07 06:32 PM - 196.40.67.178
Member Rating: Not Rated

The Watchdog:

Login Name: the watchdog
Display Name:
Member Title:
Name Color:
Real Email Address: [edited]
Display Email Address:
Full Name:
Registration / First IP: 08/14/07 01:51 PM - 196.40.67.178
Last Post / IP: 10/10/07 01:22 PM - 196.40.67.178

If you're not Scott, it might be best to find a new network to post from.

 

[Pinababy69]

Adanthar, could you clarify for anyone here who hasn't read the 2+2 thread who Scott Tom is?

 

[Adanthar]

Adanthar, could you clarify for anyone here who hasn't read the 2+2 thread who Scott Tom is?

1)The President of AP Entertainment
2)Superuser #363
3)Potripper

Take your pick, they're all good.

 

[lots0]

So Adanthar,

do you have a copy of this email hand history from AP that everyone is so up in arms about?

If so why don't you post it, without editing it?


And it is no secret that Watchdog is out of Costa Rica...
I think there are at least a dozen or so other people that live in Costa Rica that may have computers hooked up to the internet.

 

[Adanthar]

So Adanthar,

do you have a copy of this email hand history from AP that everyone is so up in arms about?

If so why don't you post it, without editing it?

#1)It's 9.5 megs of extremely hard to read, dense data with no line breaks that also intersperses different tables with each other if you sort by timestamp
#2)It has the IP's and email addresses (half of the login info) for every player and observer who opened/closed a table during the 2.5 hours the info is from
#3)It has data on 14 tables, 13 of which are totally irrelevant to the topic

If you can get enough people to vouch for your ability not to leak the thing so every hacker on the planet can target everyone named inside, you too can have a copy.

 

[lots0]

If you can get enough people to vouch for your ability not to leak the thing so every hacker on the planet can target everyone named inside, you too can have a copy

Let me get this straight, I have to be in your "club" or vouched for by someone in your "club" to be able to see the unedited evidence... That sounds rather odd to me.

It has the IP's and email addresses (half of the login info) for every player and observer who opened/closed a table during the 2.5 hours the info is from

FYI - The IP numbers would not mean anything, they would be from the ISP's (most all would be dynamic IP's ) and not the IP's of personal computers involved.

So all you are protecting are some email address that people use for the poker rooms...

I guess making sure a few folks don't get some more spam emails is way more important than providing this all important and damning evidence to the public.

It's 9.5 megs of extremely hard to read, dense data with no line breaks that also intersperses different tables with each other if you sort by timestamp

so it is a small csv file? That should be very easy to parse out.

It has data on 14 tables, 13 of which are totally irrelevant to the topic

So we ignore that data... No big deal.

If space is such an issue I'll host it for free.

Lets see this email posted unedited in public.

 

[GaryWatson]

Dont worry WATCHDOG, you have been implicated too.

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[Keyser]

Thank you for revealing yourself

By calling it conspiracy theory you are implying that the probability that most pokerooms do not cheat, is almost 100%.

Your reply verifies my arguments that you forum owners are anxious to defend the reputation of online casinos and try to cover up dangerous posts and shout the mouth of those who want to expose the truth.

What "it was found" happening at Absolute is what keeps happening in all pokerooms. If it wasnt, I would play poker now instead of writing in the forums. This focusing on absolute alone implies there is no cheating elsewhere.

You will not stop the uncovering of the truth so easily. Ban me from both casinomeister and 2+2. It is a piece of cake for me to appear on greek television and be the No1 famous in Greece. The only thing I have to do is give a photocopy of my book to about 20 journalists, scientists, stc. This book reveals the reason of ageing and how to defeat it. Also, it has solved almost all the questions of physics. And I will not forget to mention the cheating of online casinos and your role in it. I have chosen not to become famous so far, for many reasons, but I think I will decide to do so sooner or later as I feel the duty to reveal my knowledge. You know where I live. I am not scared about my life because I trust God will save me. Why? Because last time my life was in danger, I shouted with all my strength and the 5.9 richter earthquake of 1999 in Athens happened.

The cheating of the casinos has really pissed me of. 5% rake should be enough for them. But no, they had to take every last penny of poor people. Some of them commited suicide. You think I will let you get away with this?
You think you have power hah? So did Hitler had power. Look at how the Law of Justice reversed the situation. God reveled the secret of the atomic bomb to the Americans. Actually, it was again the Law of Justice that gave Hitler and Germany the power they got, in the first place. He was imprisoned and kept taking orders. Germany had suffered a lot of injustice because by the other nations before the war.

The power of a nuclear bomb is a speck compared to the power of a saint. No, I am not a saint yet, but I know the way to become one.

You think I am nuts? Why should I care you think so? I wouldnt be affected even if the whole world says I am nuts. Your wise "principle of majority" crusified Christ.

So far you stubburn people, I have had enough with you. I dont care if I never post again in your forums.

Wow, what a post. All this time, although I suspected that you might be manic, I was just convinced you were stupid. But now I see there are only two possibilities:

1) You get off on pretending to be dumb to get a reaction. In that case, you are just like Saturday Night Live (ie the joke wasnt funny the first time, and it certainly isnt funny the 500th time). Please go away.

2) You really are manic depressive and need to seek medical attention. Unfortunately, manic depressives almost never have insight into their condition and resist being treated. However, if anyone here actually knows this person and his posts are serious, then please get him to a psychiatric hospital immediately before he kills himself and/or God forbid hurts others.

 

[pokeraddict]

IMO The Watchdog only knows the people at AP or even works there but I do not believe he is the same person as Scott Tom/Pokermachine. Go look at some of his other posts here. I believe one had to do with Dobrosoft merging with Full Tilt? Some of it was Pit Bull Poker spam. I'd bet my bankroll they know each other though as the IP issue proves.

 

[Pinababy69]

IMO The Watchdog only knows the people at AP or even works there but I do not believe he is the same person as Scott Tom/Pokermachine.

That was pretty much the way my thoughts were going as well PA, that he wasn't necessarily Scott Tom, but that he may work there, and thus they share the same IP/network. If the Scott Tom login identity, and the Pokermachine identity, do indeed work for AP.....what are the odds that someone who doesn't work at AP would share the exact same IP?

I asked someone about this, and they said that it was unlikely that two different companies would share the same IP addy. Is that reasonable? Shared IP's within a geographic region maybe, but not a company IP.

The stuff that has been posted today over at your forum is absolutely mind boggling, at least to me. Or maybe I should say mind blowing.

 

[Snowman]

A few observations

Once more the story evolves...
As the days pass it seems more information is gradully becoming available to confirm virtually everyones suspicions of AP but I would like to make a couple of general points. Firstly regarding lots0. Unlike a few posters to this thread I find his contributions extremely important, he is after all an affiliate of AP so therefore has a vested financial interest in seeing AP come out of this mess unscathed. I do not agree with his views but surely isn't that the point of forums such as this? Open and free debate can only be healthy. Sure, lots0 requires 'proof' but proof to his satisfaction; considering his position I don't think this is unreasonable. However, for practically everyone else it would appear that sufficient information is available to constitute 'proof' from a legal perspective. I think it's only a question of time before lots0 also becomes part of the majority and will probably become the loudest voice against AP should this happen.
Secondly the issue of revealing personal IP's to put the final nail in AP's coffin. Of course they can't be made available in a general public domain, especally as many have deposited large sums from personal accounts. This would be a hackers dream. However I'm sure an independent third party could provide the answer. This would then be definitive.
None of us want to see rogue operators tainting an industry for which we all have such a passion and the sooner they're rooted out and eliminatd the better for all concerned.
Casinomeister provide an invaluable service...absolutely invaluable. They have a reputation for both impartiality and integrity, that is why we are all members here is it not? Certainly it has it's detractors but an inconsequential minority. In many respects CM have put their reputation on the line by taking this issue so far and we know AP management use the site. Isn't it time they did the same and started to respond by using the same vehicle?

 

[Adanthar]

Once more the story evolves...
As the days pass it seems more information is gradully becoming available to confirm virtually everyones suspicions of AP but I would like to make a couple of general points. Firstly regarding lots0. Unlike a few posters to this thread I find his contributions extremely important, he is after all an affiliate of AP so therefore has a vested financial interest in seeing AP come out of this mess unscathed. I do not agree with his views but surely isn't that the point of forums such as this? Open and free debate can only be healthy. Sure, lots0 requires 'proof' but proof to his satisfaction; considering his position I don't think this is unreasonable. However, for practically everyone else it would appear that sufficient information is available to constitute 'proof' from a legal perspective. I think it's only a question of time before lots0 also becomes part of the majority and will probably become the loudest voice against AP should this happen.
Secondly the issue of revealing personal IP's to put the final nail in AP's coffin. Of course they can't be made available in a general public domain, especally as many have deposited large sums from personal accounts. This would be a hackers dream. However I'm sure an independent third party could provide the answer. This would then be definitive.
None of us want to see rogue operators tainting an industry for which we all have such a passion and the sooner they're rooted out and eliminatd the better for all concerned.
Casinomeister provide an invaluable service...absolutely invaluable. They have a reputation for both impartiality and integrity, that is why we are all members here is it not? Certainly it has it's detractors but an inconsequential minority. In many respects CM have put their reputation on the line by taking this issue so far and we know AP management use the site. Isn't it time they did the same and started to respond by using the same vehicle?

After my initial reaction to him, I've had the same idea, hence why I've been civil with my replies to him so far. However, there is, of course, no way I am publicly posting a file identifying dozens of table changers/observers' IP addresses and emails, lots0's assertion that IP's don't mean anything to the contrary. I don't care if 'most' IP's are dynamic - that leaves out some fraction of people playing a 1K buyin tournament with a lot of money in their accounts.

As I said, though, if you have members willing to vouch for you not being dumb enough to make the file public, I'll send anyone who requests it a copy. This is also why I've been fine all along with letting CM or any other trusted party take a look at the file. In fact, you don't have to go through me. A dozen people at 2+2/Pocketfives have it and have posted about it - if you don't like my copy, feel free to PM any of them. Some of them may even be willing to do it with no conditions attached; I'm simply not willing to be the person that exposes a bunch of innocents to a lot of risk to satisfy, at this point, one guy.

 

[ThodorisK]

Keyser I never pretended to be stupid. I did not pretend anything.

Who's depressed you idiot? Me that I hope to defeat ageing or you that you believe you stop existing after death? Therefore who is most optimistic and cheerful?

Oh, and your morons psychotherapists cannot heal anyone from depression, they are depressed themselves. Most people get depressed because of poverty or because they are ugly or old, and mainly because they believe they dont exist after death. Unless a cure is found for these, depression cannot be cured. You are the stupid ones who believe they can cure you.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Keyser I never pretended to be stupid. I did not pretend anything.

Who's depressed you idiot? Me that I hope to defeat ageing or you that you believe you stop existing after death? Therefore who is most optimistic and cheerful?

Oh, and your morons psychotherapists cannot heal anyone from depression, they are depressed themselves. Most people get depressed because of poverty or because they are ugly or old, and mainly because they believe they dont exist after death. Unless a cure is found for these, depression cannot be cured. You are the stupid ones who believe they can cure you.

Ummmm... off-topic? Let's keep this thread about AP.

 

[ThodorisK]

He went first off topic. He throwed hateful personal accusations to me and I had to throw back the vomit.

 

[pokeraddict]

He went first off topic. He throwed hateful personal accusations to me and I had to throw back the vomit.

Please, this is the biggest thing to probably ever happen in online poker. You have your own thread that I thought you were crazy in, can you please go rant there? Obviously some of your suspicions have come true but just because an already sleazy poker room like AP did something like this does not mean all sites do it. This is the same as saying since Casino Bar rigged their BJ game all online blackjack is rigged or saying because one guy of a certain race is a criminal all people of that race are criminals, it's ridiculous.

Please carry on your discussion about general theories in your own thread.

 

[lots0]

Well I just asked Adanthar for a copy of the email in question.

Just to ease Adanthar's fears, I publicly promise that I will not release any personally identifiable information to the public. I hope that is good enough.

Now I guess I can sit back and wait for the AP hand history and the email from Adanthar.

it will be good to see some evidence.