[CLOSED] Bwin.com banned my account

[ThodorisK]

Bwin was the only casino which closed my account, obviously because of "bonus abusing". There was a 100 euros bonus, and I was betting 1-3 euros at blackjack. I started winning (unfortunatelly) about 30 euros, and then they closed my account, voiding both the bonus and my winnings. This "right" of the online casinos of locking the accounts with the excuse of "bonus abuse" is a fraud, a cheatery practice. Because they void your winnings if you win, but they dont refund your losses if you lose. If you win, you win zero. If you lose, you lose the amount you lost. If that is not stealing, then what is?

Betwin, GO TO HELL.

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by ThodorisK

Bwin was the only casino which closed my account, obviously because of "bonus abusing". There was a 100 euros bonus, and I was betting 1-3 euros at blackjack. I started winning (unfortunatelly) about 30 euros, and then they closed my account, voiding both the bonus and my winnings. This "right" of the online casinos of locking the accounts with the excuse of "bonus abuse" is a fraud, a cheatery practice. Because they void your winnings if you win, but they dont refund your losses if you lose. If you win, you win zero. If you lose, you lose the amount you lost. If that is not stealing, then what is?

Betwin, GO TO HELL.

Thodo, what are you doing? Ive probably pissed off more sites than you and only been locked from 1. Another 2 times were over info, once I passed the details, they reopened.

Im guessing, you either hate gambling full stop or have been caught scamming. if not, chill out and enjoy the chat

[maxd]

It looks like the player has gone off-line, the same day they posted it seems. Based on this and the lack of replies to PMs I'm marking this one "CLOSED".

Daminc, feel free to post back here if you return. As I've said the first thing we need to know is whether you did in fact violate the terms of the "refer a friend" bonus.

[daminc]

the user "daminc" who started the thread, abused our "refer a friend bonus" by offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that "refer a friend bonus" in an internet forum. this violates the §2 of of the terms and conditions of this bonus "Within the scope of the Friendship Bonus programme, e-mails may only be sent to persons whom the referrer knows personally ("prohibition of spamming")."

What are You smoking, er??

I haven't sent even 1 invitation, and of course I do not remember "offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that" in ANY internet forum. Could You please point to that forum post, if it really exist?
That's just ridiculous accusation 8( Heck, I even hadn't enough time to do that, you banned me so quickly - just after 2 wins in a row.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by daminc

What are You smoking, er??

I haven't sent even 1 invitation, and of course I do not remember "offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that" in ANY internet forum. Could You please point to that forum post, if it really exist?
That's just ridiculous accusation 8( Heck, I even hadn't enough time to do that, you banned me so quickly - just after 2 wins in a row.

I would like to know how any operator can be sure that forum posts are the work of an account holder who they then ban. If you didn't do this, you would either have referred nobody, or would be able to show that those you did refer were indeed just friends.

This is a common "trick", and casinos really leave themselves open to this by running these "refer a friend" programs. Since this is about "spam", it then begs the question "what is spam". If a forum ALLOWS this kind of thing to be posted, and is even designed for members to exchange this kind of offer, then it is NOT "spam", and does not violate anti-spam terms any more than it would be spam if I opted into receiving Bwin newsletters.
Most casinos offer only a certain number of "refer a friend" bonuses per player, which prevents this kind of problem getting out of control.

If you are indeed "guilty as charged" (yet to be proven), then you would have been better off becoming an affiliate, and earning money that way. It would be up to any forum owner to decide whether to allow the offers to be posted. Some do, but many do not (Casinomeister does NOT now, although it has been tolerated in the past in "strictly commercial" only).

A far bigger problem is where a fraudster misuses the refer a friend scheme to open "gnome" accounts, and thus obtain enhanced levels of bonus above what could be achieved simply by opening multiple accounts.

daminc is also prone to "guilty by association" determinations, just as the Danes are, based purely on country of residence (Russia).

[bwin]

@vinylweatherman

if the poster includes a referrer/affiliate url in his post, he is pretty easy to track down.

but I agree that the "guilty by association" thing is a big problem - but not only for bwin, but for all betting and gaming operators. from my experience risk departments prefer to block one player too much instead of letting a cheater, fraudster or whatever slip through the net. understandable from their point of view, but not ideal from my and the customers point of view.

I was not involved in the decision about closing the account of daminc, I just forwarded the information I got from the departments in charge.

Now to daminc:

If you want to know more about the detailed reason why you have been blocked, please get back to me either in this thread or via PM. I will then try to kickoff a detailed investigation and try to get some more details about the reasons for your account closure. But as this will be a very time consuming process I will you only start it if you tell me to do so.

Looking forward to keep the discussion with you guys going.

Kind regards

Benjamin

[daminc]

Of course I want to know why the heck I was blocked and robbed out of my money at Bwin.

( What pisses me the most is situation is that I am casino affiliate myself, and seeing any Bwin ad say in paperback CAP Magazine, I think to myself NOT the "well, I'd better try them soon", but "how dare these thieves to advertise at all???"

Really stupid, Bwin, really stupid!
Yeah, you've got my 100 Euros, but lost me as an affiliate, forever. My sites get around 13-14K visitors monthly, and guess when Bwin ads would be there?? Ha ha, NEVER! )

[Casinomeister]

Bwin wrote:

Originally Posted by bwin

...
If you want to know more about the detailed reason why you have been blocked, please get back to me either in this thread or via PM. I will then try to kickoff a detailed investigation and try to get some more details about the reasons for your account closure. But as this will be a very time consuming process I will you only start it if you tell me to do so.

Looking forward to keep the discussion with you guys going.

Kind regards

Benjamin

and Daminc replied (my bolding):

Originally Posted by daminc

Of course I want to know why the heck I was blocked and robbed out of my money at Bwin.

( What pisses me the most is situation is that I am casino affiliate myself, and seeing any Bwin ad say in paperback CAP Magazine, I think to myself NOT the "well, I'd better try them soon", but "how dare these thieves to advertise at all???"

Really stupid, Bwin, really stupid!
Yeah, you've got my 100 Euros, but lost me as an affiliate, forever. My sites get around 13-14K visitors monthly, and guess when Bwin ads would be there?? Ha ha, NEVER! )

So we have Bwin reaching out making an attempt to resolve this problem, yet the affiliate chooses to lash out.

My advice to Bwin - just walk away from this one.

@ daminc

Please school yourself on forum etiquette and normal social behaviour. If someone is willing to help you out and solve your problems, don't call them a crook and thief - and especially if they are a member of this forum. Thank you.

[bwin]

*walking away from this one*

[daminc]

Sorry, mr. Casinomeister. "My bad"

Hope that Bwin will someday change it's owner to become a more player-friendly company.