A question to fellow members who live in Germany

[dunover]

All terrorists are muslims? you re kidding right? or ignonrant? which is which? do you make a difference between islamist and muslim? I will not do any tutoring I dont like to get into any debate about islam/christianity but just to mention GEORGE GALLOWAY, NORMAN FINKELSTEIN they will tell you who is the greatest terrorist of the last decades no one but former president (born again christian) as he sent afghanistan to dark ages and destroyed iraq and false pretenses...None is holding christianity responsible for his madness and craziness..then again you might find BUSH as a great president which I wouldnt be surprised
So please save us from if I am a quran man,etc...99,99% of muslims are law abiding all over the world but you will hold them responsible for the cruel and criminal deeds for 0,01% .All I can tell you is I am canadian since 1984 and a proud one of the great values of this country

Unfortunately In Europe that is largely true, now the ETA and IRA issues have been progressed. And it is true generally in the USA. And Middle East.

And I wish it were true that 99.99% blah blah was the case. Unfortunately the prison populations of Europe don't quite tell that story.

And take a look at the news articles I posted in those links. Are these a 'tiny minority' choosing to isolate themselves from society and values of the host nation?

 

[spintee]

All terrorists are muslims? you re kidding right? or ignonrant? which is which? do you make a difference between islamist and muslim? I will not do any tutoring I dont like to get into any debate about islam/christianity but just to mention GEORGE GALLOWAY, NORMAN FINKELSTEIN they will tell you who is the greatest terrorist of the last decades no one but former president (born again christian) as he sent afghanistan to dark ages and destroyed iraq and false pretenses...None is holding christianity responsible for his madness and craziness..then again you might find BUSH as a great president which I wouldnt be surprised
So please save us from if I am a quran man,etc...99,99% of muslims are law abiding all over the world but you will hold them responsible for the cruel and criminal deeds for 0,01% .All I can tell you is I am canadian since 1984 and a proud one of the great values of this country

Do you know what, may be you are a westernert but thats fine I do not care, If you knocked at my house I will give you a bed to sleep in, I am the nicest bloke you can ever meet,

My dad was rushed into hospital yesterday and had to wait in pain, When others was getting seen before him due to the migration, My dad was in the navy mate, Not just looking after this country but risk hes life for others county's as well, So when it comes to the point when my dad can not get treatment due to over crowding and free medical care it becomes a problem,

 

[spintee]

Unfortunately In Europe that is largely true, now the ETA and IRA issues have been progressed. And it is true generally in the USA. And Middle East.

And I wish it were true that 99.99% blah blah was the case. Unfortunately the prison populations of Europe don't quite tell that story.

And take a look at the news articles I posted in those links. Are these a 'tiny minority' choosing to isolate themselves from society and values of the host nation?

Most are isolating there self mate, Go bloody tescos and worker's speaking different laungauge, They do not want to know, I sent of a letter to tesco, I could of done with your translate I just went on one which most like they not understand as I admit I not the best writer,

 

[zaalouk29]

Much worse. They already lived in Turkey for a couple of years. Dad's teeth gave up, what to do... Ah let's play refugee, Germany will pay.

You are true to yourself...pathetic
Basically you are saying they deserve what befell on them. I wonder if you will feel the same if it was some brits or relative of yours

 

[goatwack]

Well my dad came over to Germany in '79 during the Iranian Revolution, no doubt to escape the shitstorm that was brewing over there, so I can relate to that side of things. Some of his relatives chose the US and made succesful careers. Leaving a war-torn country is sometimes the only option, going back to Iran would perhaps not been the best option due to the Iran- Irag war that soon followed!

Nevertheless this may be just one person's individual example, but as far as I'm aware he did his utmost to integrate into an alien environment and had a successful business in Germany etc. Religious indifference and the age-old Muslim/ Christian conflicts were never really prevalent, from what I recall he was pretty relaxed about it all (drinking, smoking, womanizing). No doubt there was some arguments about certain ideals but that was to be expected.

Muslims living in Britain have always co-existed with the native population and there are many buddies of mine who likewise hate being tainted with the 'Muslims are automatically terrorists' brush. It's a shame that a few nutjob hate preachers are allowed to spout their vitriol freely and harbour warped ideologies and infect an impressionable segment of this country's youth. Unfortunately too in this technological age we live in, information can be passed around the globe instantly, good or bad. I really, really would love to believe that every migrant heading through Europe has genuine intentions but I highly doubt that is the case, not in those numbers.

And whilst I would like to agree with the sentiment that 99.9 percent of Muslims are law abiding, I don't think any religious demographic has near- flawless numbers. And we can certainly agree that Bush and Blair are war criminals themselves, all the things that were foreshadowed at the time and advised against have now come back to bite us. Bush is a terrorist for sure.

Now watch this drive!

 

[MiltonW]

You are true to yourself...pathetic
Basically you are saying they deserve what befell on them. I wonder if you will feel the same if it was some brits or relative of yours

You are a strange person. You feel that everyone who needs their teeth fixed can do it for free in Germany?
ECONOMIC refugees are not allowed. This family was OBVIOUSLY ECONOMIC.

What's your problem? Are you a muslim, and have a lot of family over there or something?

 

[gagamel]

Trust me, we wouldn't be upset either. We wouldn't have to listen to fools like Merkel any more. You believe in democracy? So do I, and we were never given a vote on any political union with Europe, merely a Common Market. This Common Market has since transmogrified into a colossal, inefficient, interfering, bullying pseudo-Communist monstrosity along with all the corruption and inefficiency you'd expect with it. I'd be elated to get out of the E-USSR and leave Merkel and the French to squabble over the cesspit.

That`s what I call a statement.

You are against refugees in your country, you are against muslims in general (just look at your posted links).

You are against the EU, you are against communism etc.

For what do you stand for?

Hopefully not for a white christian Europe under the leadership of the UK, with english food and cars

Because then I have to seek asylum.

 

[zaalouk29]

You are a strange person. You feel that everyone who needs their teeth fixed can do it for free in Germany?
ECONOMIC refugees are not allowed. This family was OBVIOUSLY ECONOMIC.

What's your problem? Are you a muslim, and have a lot of family over there or something?

My problem is your problem with muslims , why do you hold such views ? did you have a personal experience or just brainwashing from medias,etc.. keep in mind that lot of refugees are fellow christians from syria in case you didnt know.
No I dont have any relatives among the refugees
Tell us a little bit about yourself..how do you feel about non-christians,non-white, third world foreigners..and tell us how would you handle the whole issue if you were in charge?

 

[zaalouk29]

That`s what I call a statement.

You are against refugees in your country, you are against muslims in general (just look at your posted links).

You are against the EU, you are against communism etc.

For what do you stand for?

Hopefully not for a white christian Europe under the leadership of the UK, with english food and cars

Because then I have to seek asylum.

He stands for nothing just another white supremacist, KKK type, neo-nazi type of ideology but he goes undercover. Let him reply and be frank and admits it

 

[citizenx]

This is a forum dominated by the Brits. Their anti-everything attitude drives me crazy. It's not just anti-migrants but also anti-EU. They have their choice to leave EU in 2016/2017. I wouldn't be upset if they leave.

I can understand why Europeans would feel like that. Speaking as someone who is anti-EU, I just want to add some commentary about that.

There are, in my view, three types of Brits when it comes to the EU question.

1). The out and out little Englanders - racists who think Britain is the best country in the world and that every other nationality is inferior. These people are at best stupid and at worst far right. We don't really have much of a far right movement but there are many poorly educated (their own fault - lack of attendance, mucking around at school, etc).

I dislike these people and try to avoid them. You tend to find them in jobs such as cabbies, bus drivers and barbers. Fairly low skilled, involve interaction with the public but have a captive audience and like to share their opinions.

Sadly, there are quite a few of these.


2). People who accept that Britain is far from perfect - just like every other country on earth. They like European people and identify with people from western Europe. However, they have no real connection with or understanding those from the far eastern fringes of the continent - and why would they? Geography separates them more than those in the centre of the continent.

They come from a wide range of semi/professional backgrounds and dislike and don't trust the European Union. Their reasons vary but they feel it is an institution which has made no attempt to look at what they want from membership but does like to impose rules and regulations on them - many of which they disagree with.

They feel ignored and not part of the system. They acknowledge that the UK joined in the 1970's but that was for trade purposes, not surrender of sovereignty such as areas such as legislation and policy. They feel that the Union has moved on significantly from that they joined and they've not been consulted on this at all.

They feel it is an institution which serves as the dumping ground/gravy train for politicians we've rejected such as Kinnock.

I am from this group. I hear the likes of Prodi and Juncker making demands of our country without so much as a nod to the electorate.

We didn't elect them, we don't know them and we frankly don't like them. Not because they aren't British but because we expect to be consulted on things which affect us.

I have tried to keep an open mind on the EU over the years but over the last four or five years I've seen and heard nothing from the EU to sell its benefits to me. I've only seen and heard negative things.

I can see no reason why I would vote to remain in a union which treats me with such contempt. That said, I am NOT anti the people of western Europe, nor am I against those of Eastern Europe BUT I do not wish to see so many free to travel and settle here without our consent. I'm sorry if you dislike that but my nation shouldn't be a land of communities which do not integrate. I do not feel those who come from a very different part of the world have made the efforts *I* would and have made when in foreign nations.

I feel we've been exploited by those from less well-off countries and it is detrimental to the people who are born here. That is not right.



3). Pro-EU people. These people are usually quite well-to-do, often spend a lot of time travelling for work in Europe and do not live in and around the areas the less affluent incomers from Europe settle in here.

They don't see or hear the struggles of poorer British people who have been pushed out of the employment and housing markets. They're entirely blind to it.

This group are a minority and it is NOT right to subject the majority to a declining standard of life for their benefit.



So, in conclusion, whether you "get" what i'm saying or not - we are NOT anti everything. We are an Island nation with a national culture which is about independence and self sufficiency. Most people do not hate people from Europe but DO dislike having mass uncontrolled immigration and laws forced on them.

You are welcome to ignore me, insult my interpretation of the people and their views but you cannot be left thinking we're all coming from the same place or have the same justifications for our views.

 

[citizenx]

Unfortunately In Europe that is largely true, now the ETA and IRA issues have been progressed. And it is true generally in the USA. And Middle East.

And I wish it were true that 99.99% blah blah was the case. Unfortunately the prison populations of Europe don't quite tell that story.

And take a look at the news articles I posted in those links. Are these a 'tiny minority' choosing to isolate themselves from society and values of the host nation?

To be fair, I have to say that the acts of western governments in Islamic countries and others over recent years could readily be seen as terrorism by the people of those countries.

We've attempted to force "democracy" on nations that haven't asked for it and in cultures which don't gel to it.

We have a superiority complex about democracy and try to force it on the world. Then we take a step back and look at our own - where only a handful of constituencies change hands at an election thus rendering the vast majority of votes worthless.

Further, we have, really, only a choice of two parties - both of which occupy the very narrowest part of the political spectrum with only slight differences of opinion - what can be best described as window dressing.

My own view is that its time the UK stopped trying to act like a global power - the days of empire are long gone. Its time we let the world we've helped create find its own feet and stopped interfering where "our" interests aren't being served in the way we'd like.

 

[Casino2014man]

He stands for nothing just another white supremacist, KKK type, neo-nazi type of ideology but he goes undercover. Let him reply and be frank and admits it

That is a bit of a personal attack -

 

[MiltonW]

My problem is your problem with muslims , why do you hold such views ? did you have a personal experience or just brainwashing from medias,etc.. keep in mind that lot of refugees are fellow christians from syria in case you didnt know.
No I dont have any relatives among the refugees
Tell us a little bit about yourself..how do you feel about non-christians,non-white, third world foreigners..and tell us how would you handle the whole issue if you were in charge?

Religion is the root of all evil. I am an atheist (or agnost if you will). But I could care less what religion refugees have, as long as they are not ECONOMIC. That's been my point all along.

If I was in charge I would do exactly what Australia does. Don't allow boats in, just tow them back. No more smuggling, and the refugees can try to apply from the outside...

 

[Kopfkino]

i have read in different german forum that some people have talked with the refugees from syria and they said
that they got offer told that they all can come to germany. they said when they reach germany they become instant money and a house.
thats the reason why so many are walking now the long way (from hungary) the reach the land of honey and milk .

now our russian friends wants to end the war in syria and guess what Obama government said its dangerous to destroy ISIS (of course because its their own created weapon)

 

[hedgehok]

I can understand why Europeans would feel like that. Speaking as someone who is anti-EU, I just want to add some commentary about that.

There are, in my view, three types of Brits when it comes to the EU question.

1). The out and out little Englanders - racists who think Britain is the best country in the world and that every other nationality is inferior. These people are at best stupid and at worst far right. We don't really have much of a far right movement but there are many poorly educated (their own fault - lack of attendance, mucking around at school, etc).

I dislike these people and try to avoid them. You tend to find them in jobs such as cabbies, bus drivers and barbers. Fairly low skilled, involve interaction with the public but have a captive audience and like to share their opinions.

Sadly, there are quite a few of these.


2). People who accept that Britain is far from perfect - just like every other country on earth. They like European people and identify with people from western Europe. However, they have no real connection with or understanding those from the far eastern fringes of the continent - and why would they? Geography separates them more than those in the centre of the continent.

They come from a wide range of semi/professional backgrounds and dislike and don't trust the European Union. Their reasons vary but they feel it is an institution which has made no attempt to look at what they want from membership but does like to impose rules and regulations on them - many of which they disagree with.

They feel ignored and not part of the system. They acknowledge that the UK joined in the 1970's but that was for trade purposes, not surrender of sovereignty such as areas such as legislation and policy. They feel that the Union has moved on significantly from that they joined and they've not been consulted on this at all.

They feel it is an institution which serves as the dumping ground/gravy train for politicians we've rejected such as Kinnock.

I am from this group. I hear the likes of Prodi and Juncker making demands of our country without so much as a nod to the electorate.

We didn't elect them, we don't know them and we frankly don't like them. Not because they aren't British but because we expect to be consulted on things which affect us.

I have tried to keep an open mind on the EU over the years but over the last four or five years I've seen and heard nothing from the EU to sell its benefits to me. I've only seen and heard negative things.

I can see no reason why I would vote to remain in a union which treats me with such contempt. That said, I am NOT anti the people of western Europe, nor am I against those of Eastern Europe BUT I do not wish to see so many free to travel and settle here without our consent. I'm sorry if you dislike that but my nation shouldn't be a land of communities which do not integrate. I do not feel those who come from a very different part of the world have made the efforts *I* would and have made when in foreign nations.

I feel we've been exploited by those from less well-off countries and it is detrimental to the people who are born here. That is not right.



3). Pro-EU people. These people are usually quite well-to-do, often spend a lot of time travelling for work in Europe and do not live in and around the areas the less affluent incomers from Europe settle in here.

They don't see or hear the struggles of poorer British people who have been pushed out of the employment and housing markets. They're entirely blind to it.

This group are a minority and it is NOT right to subject the majority to a declining standard of life for their benefit.



So, in conclusion, whether you "get" what i'm saying or not - we are NOT anti everything. We are an Island nation with a national culture which is about independence and self sufficiency. Most people do not hate people from Europe but DO dislike having mass uncontrolled immigration and laws forced on them.

You are welcome to ignore me, insult my interpretation of the people and their views but you cannot be left thinking we're all coming from the same place or have the same justifications for our views.

Thanks for your elaborate statement, very appreciated. Although I dislike discussing such complex topics in a foreign language hence being not very precise with my statements i'd like to give some sentiments.

I think most people in the UK (I hope) belong to your groups 2 & 3 and have a critical reflection on the EU. I certainly don't say I like everything the EU does, on the contrary, but I love the European idea in general. To build up a political and economical house for European people which share so many values. Human rights, religion, culture and democracy for example. After so much war took part in our continent we finally made a great effort to build up a peaceful environment to live in. Things like travelling/working so free would never be possible without that. I can understand when other people say they share this opinion regarding the European people but don't want to have a political and economical union that is so close.

This being said we certainly reached a critical phase now and we have very severe problems to solve in Europe. The Greece disaster (which doesn't affect the UK as much as other countries in the Eurozone) and now the refugee-crisis are really demanding topics which have been in this magnitude being unprecedented. And actually the EU is democratic to some extent. You should have been able to vote for the European Parliament at some point which itself elects the European President (Juncker). In Germany democracy works the same way (You elect the "Bundestag" which itself votes the chancellor).

What I wanted to say regarding the "Brexit" is if you choose to leave EU that's fine to me. You would probably join the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) to continue trading as much as you do with your European neighbors. It has always been a very controversial cooperation between the UK and rest of Europe. So if you really have a distinct sentiment to leave EU - so be it. This is called democracy and I'm fine with that. I will have a lot of sympathy left for the British people - like the Dutch or the Swedes, or the Italians, French, Pols and so on.

However what I'd like to underline is dunover calling Merkel a "fool" and a "disgrace" only because she's not sharing his opinion is sad. I wish he would be a little bit more forthcoming in a debate and not insulting people because they don't share his (political) opinion.

 

[zaalouk29]

That is a bit of a personal attack -

this is your contribution to the subject? just to pick and choose..but anyway reread the sentence..you might discover the word ideology in it...far from a personal attack

 

[gagamel]

I hope the link will help some guys here to understand why there are refugees from Syria and why they went away from their country.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

For some people it seems too surreal that there is a war in our neighbourhood, but the war is there and goes on.

 

[dunover]

He stands for nothing just another white supremacist, KKK type, neo-nazi type of ideology but he goes undercover. Let him reply and be frank and admits it

I should really report that post, but due to your obvious intellectual limitations and complete failure to read and understand why many here object to more migration (and that little of it is due to race, but practicality and the EU). I will instead take comfort from the fact that when one starts throwing insults about using the 'race card' it's a sure-fire tell that they've lost their reason, argument and are out of their depth.

 

[dunover]

That`s what I call a statement.

You are against refugees in your country, you are against muslims in general (just look at your posted links).

You are against the EU, you are against communism etc.

For what do you stand for?

Hopefully not for a white christian Europe under the leadership of the UK, with english food and cars

Because then I have to seek asylum.

Please read what I actually said.

1. NOT against refugees - I actually praised Camoron for stating he'd help some Syrians from the refugee camps, not those who were now safe in the EU elsewhere and are thus economic migrants. We do not need any more economic migrants. Nor does the EU.

2. Again, I am against the convenient political union we've been railroaded into without a vote. I support the EFTA and economic ties. And unless I'm very much mistaken, you Swiss aren't in the EU either. Luckily for you.

3. Yes, against communism like most reasoned people are. 100 million lives and counting, that's what communism has done for world peace and progression.

4. Again read. Not against muslims in general. I am against sizeable amounts of them in liberal democracies, where their beliefs and way of life are usually antipathetic to ours and they expect generally us to integrate with them rather than the opposite. This you have divided society and problems, evident in the countries I have mentioned Sweden, Holland zzz.zzz..zzz

P.S. Didn't the lovely tolerant Swiss get so sick of it that they had a vote in some of their Cantons calling for a ban on building more mosques???

I stand for democracy, protected democracy whereby those whom threaten that democracy and freedom are not tolerated, not welcome and the people within that democracy should NOT be made to feel guilty or prevented from saying so. And yes, if you want Europe and it's peace and people and traditions to survive then you need to abandon yourself of the idea, should the atheist/Christian majority ever become a minority.

HEDGEHOK - Merkel is a fool because her actions have made the problem snowball. She will have caused more boats to sail, more deaths and all dressed up as charity and good intentions. Has she consulted the German people if they want 1% of their population replaced in one year by foreign muslims? Is she aware of the ghettoes this will create, and the effects on the lives of Germans who live near them? The pressure on housing, schools, social services and doctors at the expense of the German people?
Germany hasn't got a great track record of leaders in the last 100 years, and I think history will show her to be a bad one.

 

[Matti]

Stop

Democracy is fantastic. Everyone is entitled to have a opinion on things, like for example immigration.

My very personal opinion is that this item shouldn't be a thread here on CM. I realize that this is not up to me but I just feel it potentinaly creates conflicts between members which will effect discussions about slots, casinos, etc in the future since this item is so infected.

Could someone please close this bloody thread!!

 

[gagamel]

Please read what I actually said.

1. NOT against refugees - I actually praised Camoron for stating he'd help some Syrians from the refugee camps, not those who were now safe in the EU elsewhere and are thus economic migrants. We do not need any more economic migrants. Nor does the EU.

2. Again, I am against the convenient political union we've been railroaded into without a vote. I support the EFTA and economic ties. And unless I'm very much mistaken, you Swiss aren't in the EU either. Luckily for you.

3. Yes, against communism like most reasoned people are. 100 million lives and counting, that's what communism has done for world peace and progression.

4. Again read. Not against muslims in general. I am against sizeable amounts of them in liberal democracies, where their beliefs and way of life are usually antipathetic to ours and they expect generally us to integrate with them rather than the opposite. This you have divided society and problems, evident in the countries I have mentioned Sweden, Holland zzz.zzz..zzz

P.S. Didn't the lovely tolerant Swiss get so sick of it that they had a vote in some of their Cantons calling for a ban on building more mosques???

I stand for democracy, protected democracy whereby those whom threaten that democracy and freedom are not tolerated, not welcome and the people within that democracy should NOT be made to feel guilty or prevented from saying so. And yes, if you want Europe and it's peace and people and traditions to survive then you need to abandon yourself to the idea should the atheist/Christian majority ever become a minority.

You are an equivocator at it`s best.

But thank you that we all were able to have a look into your thoughts. Possibly it would be better for all of us you kept them secret.

 

[dunover]

You are an equivocator at it`s best.

But thank you that we all were able to have a look into your thoughts. Possibly it would be better for all of us you kept them secret.

Really?

I see. Because you disagree I should be silent? Because I often provide facts (not opinions) that are 'inconvenient' to some people's arguments?
You are also noticeably silent on the fact I don't support the EU - when you don't personally live with the problems of the EU yourself.

Was I wrong that your Swiss nation got so fed up with muslim ingression that the people called for a vote a few years ago?

Kept that quiet, didn't you?

 

[zaalouk29]

I should really report that post, but due to your obvious intellectual limitations and complete failure to read and understand why many here object to more migration (and that little of it is due to race, but practicality and the EU). I will instead take comfort from the fact that when one starts throwing insults about using the 'race card' it's a sure-fire tell that they've lost their reason, argument and are out of their depth.

SO those are not personal attacks: intellectual limitations, lost my reason, again I say it: you,spintee,miltonw,and the alikes are all from the same brotherhood: reunited in muslim and foreigners bashing, disguised under economic issue,or european lifestyle in danger,etc the same points discussed all along: why not just say it on broad daylight? as for reporting me to the babysitter, I care less : I HAVE THE COURAGE TO STAND FOR I BELIEVE IN: a n importe quel prix, comme disent les francais.

 

[gagamel]

Really?

I see. Because you disagree I should be silent? Because I often provide facts (not opinions) that are 'inconvenient' to some people's arguments?
You are also noticeably silent on the fact I don't support the EU - when you don't personally live with the problems of the EU yourself.

Was I wrong that your Swiss nation got so fed up with muslim ingression that the people called for a vote a few years ago?

Kept that quiet, didn't you?

Please read again:

I`m German and live in Switzerland (that`s the reason I didn`t say anything about the muslim thing). My parents live in Germany. They are not rich but have a lot of empathy for the refugees.
The only people who are talking bad about the refugee crisis in the area my parents live are either very rich (maybe they have to give something to other people, what a waste of money) or are dumb as s***.

The majority of the people are relaxed. I heard a lot of statements like "They have no home, family and friends died, just like my parents after WWII".

My last thought to you is the following:

I really hope that you never get into trouble and have to leave your island.

Over and out

 

[zaalouk29]

SO those are not personal attacks: intellectual limitations, lost my reason, again I say it: you,spintee,miltonw,and the alikes are all from the same brotherhood: reunited in muslim and foreigners bashing, disguised under economic issue,or european lifestyle in danger,etc the same points discussed all along: why not just say it on broad daylight? as for reporting me to the babysitter, I care less : I HAVE THE COURAGE TO STAND FOR I BELIEVE IN: a n importe quel prix, comme disent les francais.

AS far as I am concerned,this thread is closed, I leave it up to gagamel and others to pursue a helpless endeavour