Questionable Behaviour from an Accredited Casino

[Nate]

Hi All,

Just wanted your thoughts and input on this issue. Maybe I've missed the Bus completely but this does not seem right to me:

The Story Goes:

Made a $500 deposit via Moneybookers to a Casino. Took the 100% signup (up to $250) and played that out last night. I contacted Support to enquire what the WR and Max Withdrawal limits were and was told that i could withdraw a MAX of $500 a week via MB.

So i continued the conversation and asked if they refunded CC's as that was my only other Deposit option - The answer came as NO. So i queried if i deposited via MB, could i then request an alternate withdraw method and they repleid that I could ONLY Wd via MB.

So i asked the rep, what the sense was in allowing me to Deposit $500 if i am only able to WD $500 a week. What if i deposited more? I could deposit anywhere from $100 to 2k in a session and then only be able to withdraw $500?

The Rep then transfered my chat to the 'payments' rep. The payments rep advised me that my limit would be $500... so i reiterated what i had said earlier and he then told me that IF i deposited 1k at a time, they would up my weekly WD limit to $5k. From my conversation with the Rep, that ONLY stood if i deposited 1k or more at a time...

Do you think this is a bit unfair?? I am being told that the only way i can up my weekly WD limit to the advertised is by making deposits of $1k or more?

IMPO I think this is unethical and not right... I can't withdraw to an alternative method and they do not refund CC's....

Hmmm....

 

[De Beuker]

500.- a week withdrawlimit?
Thats just crazy.
Thats even worse than most Rivals!
And it cannot be a Rival, as there are no Rivals accredited...hmm..

Whats up with these places, dont they want highrollers?
Are they so badly underfunded?

Name and shame plz!

 

[chayton]

$500 a week? That's completely ridiculous!!! I think you should PM Max or Bryan with the casino name - an accredited casino having that kind of cap on withdrawals may raise some warning flags with them. JMO

 

[Nate]

Thanks De Beuker and Chayton,

Q: Because its MB... does that make a difference?

What I'm not pleased by is the fact that I am being told to deposit MORE in order to be able to withdraw on the advertised weekly limit.

Even if its a different deposit method, its unethical to offer depositing players a maximum of $500 a week on withdrawals and then offer them the advertised limit IF they deposit more.

Nate

_____________________________

Edit: Just had a look on the Website and Eco Card; Click2Pay and MB are Capped at $500 weekly withdrawal limits but you are allowed to deposit a max of $2500 a Transaction... ?

Neteller is NOT supported and the advertised weekly withdraw limit of $5k is ONLY for Usemywallet and Wire Transfer...

Am i nitpicking or is this acceptable?

 

[maxd]

... he then told me that IF i deposited 1k at a time, they would up my weekly WD limit to $5k. From my conversation with the Rep, that ONLY stood if i deposited 1k or more at a time...

Please contact Bryan or I with more details on this. ASAP SVP.

Thanks.

PS. I've reported this to Bryan so he'll be up to speed very soon.

 

[De Beuker]

Thanks De Beuker and Chayton,

Q: Because its MB... does that make a difference?

What I'm not pleased by is the fact that I am being told to deposit MORE in order to be able to withdraw on the advertised weekly limit.

Even if its a different deposit method, its unethical to offer depositing players a maximum of $500 a week on withdrawals and then offer them the advertised limit IF they deposit more.

Nate




Edit: Just had a look on the Website and Eco Card; Click2Pay and MB are Capped at $500 weekly withdrawal limits but you are allowed to deposit a max of $2500 a Transaction... ?

Neteller is NOT supported and the advertised weekly withdraw limit of $5k is ONLY for Usemywallet and Wire Transfer...

Am i nitpicking or is this acceptable?

Why would Moneybookers make a difference?
I dont know about their transactionlimits, but I'm sure these are in the same range as Neteller, and I know ppl who have withdrawn 25-30K at once with no problems.

And its definately unethical to say they raise it if you deposit more.
(Also proves that its NOT moneybookers limiting anything)

I never care much about withdrawlimits, as I never really expect to reach one with my measily 0.25/0.50 spins, but even I have had cashouts over 500.- and once over 1000.-, which would take 2 weeks to collect.

I mean, c'mon, you deposit 500.-, you win and then you can only cash out your original deposit, and the rest is going to take a few months?!
Total BS.

_____________________________

 

[jenn1381]

You're definitely not nitpicking.. that is complete CRAP! You can only withdraw your original deposit? What if you were lucky enough to bring your balance up to 3k? You're expected to wait 6 WEEKS to get it all??? Ummmm I don't think so! I am SO tired of casino's these days. How can they not see how ridiculous that is? I would love to know which casino, but I understand a name and shame is not a good idea at this point with max and Bryan involved. Good luck getting some answers and hopefully you can one day share which casino it is and that they've seen the light and changed their stupid, stupid ways.

 

[chayton]

Why would Moneybookers make a difference?
I dont know about their transactionlimits, but I'm sure these are in the same range as Neteller, and I know ppl who have withdrawn 25-30K at once with no problems.

And its definately unethical to say they raise it if you deposit more.
(Also proves that its NOT moneybookers limiting anything)

Exactly.

 

[Stovetopp]

Hi All,

Just wanted your thoughts and input on this issue. Maybe I've missed the Bus completely but this does not seem right to me:

The Story Goes:

Made a $500 deposit via Moneybookers to a Casino. Took the 100% signup (up to $250) and played that out last night. I contacted Support to enquire what the WR and Max Withdrawal limits were and was told that i could withdraw a MAX of $500 a week via MB.

So i continued the conversation and asked if they refunded CC's as that was my only other Deposit option - The answer came as NO. So i queried if i deposited via MB, could i then request an alternate withdraw method and they repleid that I could ONLY Wd via MB.

So i asked the rep, what the sense was in allowing me to Deposit $500 if i am only able to WD $500 a week. What if i deposited more? I could deposit anywhere from $100 to 2k in a session and then only be able to withdraw $500?

The Rep then transfered my chat to the 'payments' rep. The payments rep advised me that my limit would be $500... so i reiterated what i had said earlier and he then told me that IF i deposited 1k at a time, they would up my weekly WD limit to $5k. From my conversation with the Rep, that ONLY stood if i deposited 1k or more at a time...

Do you think this is a bit unfair?? I am being told that the only way i can up my weekly WD limit to the advertised is by making deposits of $1k or more?

IMPO I think this is unethical and not right... I can't withdraw to an alternative method and they do not refund CC's....

Hmmm....

So what is the problem? Just collect your money , and uninstall the casino...There are other casinos there to play at esp if you are not in USA.

 

[Nate]

So what is the problem? Just collect your money , and uninstall the casino...There are other casinos there to play at esp if you are not in USA.

It's not about that... it's about forcing customers to Deposit more in order for their advertised (On CM) withdrawal limits to be increased.

Its about unethical behaviour and conduct not befitting for a CM accredited Casino.

Its about being able to increase the WD Limits ONLY if the customer deposits more...

Remember CM can't Police individual Casinos and rely on them to stick to the accreditation rules. This is why we have a Forum and why we are free to discuss issues.

Other persons using this portal may be subject to the same tactics and if it is not highlighted, the reputability of this portal soon dissolves.

 

[KasinoKing]

You're definitely not nitpicking.. that is complete CRAP! You can only withdraw your original deposit? What if you were lucky enough to bring your balance up to 3k? You're expected to wait 6 WEEKS to get it all??? Ummmm I don't think so! I am SO tired of casino's these days. How can they not see how ridiculous that is? I would love to know which casino, but I understand a name and shame is not a good idea at this point with max and Bryan involved. Good luck getting some answers and hopefully you can one day share which casino it is and that they've seen the light and changed their stupid, stupid ways.

Exactly what Jenn said!

So what is the problem? Just collect your money , and uninstall the casino...There are other casinos there to play at esp if you are not in USA.

The problem is we (players and affiliates in general) should not allow any casinos, let alone accredited ones, to get away with such blatantly unfair rules. There are already far too many player-unfriendly rules; should we just sit back and let casinos do anything they like? I think not.

If I find this is a casino I list on my sites I will be making it very clear to them that these withdrawal limits are simply unacceptable.
Hopefully it will be named soon.

KK

 

[Pinababy69]

Pretty sure this exact topic has come up before, and I'm "almost" positive it was the Vegas Tech Casinos ie. English Harbour, etc. This has been in place for quite a while I think...this absurd limit. IF I can find the thread later, I'll post a link.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

Just my two cents but this is the definition of "rogue". If the casino needs the "float" on your money for that long there is seriously something wrong It gives the appearance of a cashflow problem whether they have one or not and in this climate perception is everything.

 

[Nate]

Pretty sure this exact topic has come up before, and I'm "almost" positive it was the Vegas Tech Casinos ie. English Harbour, etc. This has been in place for quite a while I think...this absurd limit. IF I can find the thread later, I'll post a link.

Pinababy69... Hmmm; quite the 'Detective' aren't we? lol... Thanks and to clear the Air you are quite correct in pointing this out!!

I have consulted with Maxd and since this is not a PAB, I would like to reveal that the Casino in question is VIPSlots.

Apart from the 'Absurd Limits' imposed by this Casino on withdrawals, they have the nerve to negotiate higher withdrawal limits with higher deposits - something they should be offering as a reputable casino to begin with.

Anyways, I am still awaiting feedback from Bryan or Max which im sure they will post here...

Nate

 

[gambblex]

I recall the thread almost exactly like this one. Starring JHV,VWM and others

 

[jelsmith]

I had assumed it was VT also...I play there very rarely but I always see winners of 16k 8k etc scrolling across the top.....I cant imagine waiting that long to be paid out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Pinababy69... Hmmm; quite the 'Detective' aren't we? lol... Thanks and to clear the Air you are quite correct in pointing this out!!

I have consulted with Maxd and since this is not a PAB, I would like to reveal that the Casino in question is VIPSlots.

Apart from the 'Absurd Limits' imposed by this Casino on withdrawals, they have the nerve to negotiate higher withdrawal limits with higher deposits - something they should be offering as a reputable casino to begin with.

Anyways, I am still awaiting feedback from Bryan or Max which im sure they will post here...

Nate

How does this help players to GAMBLE RESPONSIBLY. If someone is depositing $500 at a time, they may NOT want to suddenly double the risk to $1000 at a time. The limit of $500 for a player depositing $500 gives them NO opportunity to win & get paid in reasonable time from their deposit, and often what happens is that players play back their winnings because they are having to wait a week before they can request even the first chunk of winnings from a $500 deposit.

Moneybookers should be pretty safe compared with other ewallet solutions, and should be on a par with wire transfer. From the PLAYERS' point of view, ewallets add a layer between their bank accounts and the casino, whereas wire transfer gives the casino direct access to their bank details. This is one of the advertised safety benefits of using an ewallet compared to directly using bank transfers or cards with casinos.

Moneybookers are hardly going to screw the casino, UNLIKE many of the US facing processors have done in the past.

These rules seem aimed at keeping hold of money for as long as possible, earning interest for the casino on money that does not even belong to it. Banks are known to like the 3/4 day clearing period just BECAUSE it allows them to earn 3 days interest on money it is "clearing" through it's systems.

This limit is TEN TIMES WORSE than limits experienced with RTG casinos. I once had to wait 3 weeks to get all my winnings from Club World because of it's $3000 per week limit. This would have been SEVEN MONTHS of waiting were I to have had a similar session at VIPSlots!

To me, this is one accredited group I would steer well clear of because of these silly limits.

Maybe they DON'T want "medium rollers" to play there with only a few hundred dollars at a time, yet "low rollers" who deposit $25 at a time & play 20c spins are unlikely to be seriously inconvenienced by a limit that allows them to win up to 20x their deposit before hitting the weekly limit.

High Rollers seem to be able to negotiate their limits, yet it seems they have to deposit in large chunks, rather than a certain amount overall.

 

[X-Raided]

This is very selfish on VIPSlots part.

If I were in the casino's shoes, I would have recognized and interpeted
Nate's questions asked as being a "high roller" heavy depositor and
did whatever it takes to earn his business. I would of certainly not tried
to negotiate higher deposits for higher withdraws and turned the player off from ever depositing again.

Very bad business management on their part IMO.

The same mismanaged business management that will sink a casino
in the future.

 

[rockycatt]

It's not about that... it's about forcing customers to Deposit more in order for their advertised (On CM) withdrawal limits to be increased.

Its about unethical behaviour and conduct not befitting for a CM accredited Casino.

Its about being able to increase the WD Limits ONLY if the customer deposits more...

Remember CM can't Police individual Casinos and rely on them to stick to the accreditation rules. This is why we have a Forum and why we are free to discuss issues.

Other persons using this portal may be subject to the same tactics and if it is not highlighted, the reputability of this portal soon dissolves.

they advertise 5,000.00 wd a week on C M acredited list

Vegas Technology
Formerly known as OddsOn Gaming Inc., Vegas Technology Inc., provides gaming software and customized turnkey solutions for online casinos mostly licensed in Antigua and Barbuda and the Netherland Antilles.

Several years ago there was incident where the wrong file was uploaded during a software upgrade. This caused the doubling up on Video Poker to malfunction in the casino's favor. When the error was spotted, the software provider took specific actions to include paying back all losses to players, and setting up safeguards so that this would never happen again. These casinos took a three year break from the site before coming back on.


Casino Groups UK White Listed Publicly Traded US Accepted 3rd Party Audit Poker Live Games Withdrawal Limitations² Special Notes Casinomeister Promo ¹
English Harbour Group
Caribbean Gold RNG/Software $5,000 per week


English Harbour RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Millionaire Casino RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Silver Dollar Casino RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Slots Galore RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Super Slots RNG/Software $5,000 per week


VIP Slots RNG/Software $5,000 per week

 

[vinylweatherman]

they advertise 5,000.00 wd a week on C M acredited list

Vegas Technology
Formerly known as OddsOn Gaming Inc., Vegas Technology Inc., provides gaming software and customized turnkey solutions for online casinos mostly licensed in Antigua and Barbuda and the Netherland Antilles.

Several years ago there was incident where the wrong file was uploaded during a software upgrade. This caused the doubling up on Video Poker to malfunction in the casino's favor. When the error was spotted, the software provider took specific actions to include paying back all losses to players, and setting up safeguards so that this would never happen again. These casinos took a three year break from the site before coming back on.


Casino Groups UK White Listed Publicly Traded US Accepted 3rd Party Audit Poker Live Games Withdrawal Limitations² Special Notes Casinomeister Promo ¹
English Harbour Group
Caribbean Gold RNG/Software $5,000 per week


English Harbour RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Millionaire Casino RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Silver Dollar Casino RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Slots Galore RNG/Software $5,000 per week


Super Slots RNG/Software $5,000 per week


VIP Slots RNG/Software $5,000 per week

This is the "Ryanair trick" much lambasted by the financial press. Ryanair advertise very cheap fares, but add a £5 supplement per person, per leg, for payment by card on it's ONLINE booking service. How ELSE does one pay for an ONLINE booking, cash

To get around advertising rules, Ryanair waived this £5 charge for the most OBSCURE card it could, the useless Electron card, accepted pretty much nowhere on the high street, unlike "normal" credit and debit cards.

When Electron became more popular, Ryanair ITSELF decided that the banks were phasing out Electron, and swapped over to waiving the charge on a new, and equally obscure, card option. Fortunately for us, this obscure card is the Neteller NET+ card (& it's "sister" products).

VIPSlots are using a similar trick, the $5000 limit IS available, but ONLY on two less popular methods of deposit & withdrawal, with the more popular ones either being unavailable, or subject to this $500 limit.

Unless UseMyWallet and Wire Transfer are methods used by the MAJORITY of players, it is unethical (even illegal here in the UK) to state that the "normal" or "headline" limit is $5000 per week.

Since CM is in charge of what is listed under the accredited section, the simplest solution would be to amend it to reflect that the NORMAL limit for withdrawals is $500 per week, with higher limits being the exception for 2 less popular deposit methods, and when negotiated on an individual basis by players & their VIP hosts.

Before the casino retorts by saying that the OP could "always have chosen Wire Transfer to benefit from the $5000 limit", remember that he DID ask about this, but the casino said NO!

..........So i continued the conversation and asked if they refunded CC's as that was my only other Deposit option - The answer came as NO. So i queried if i deposited via MB, could i then request an alternate withdraw method and they repleid that I could ONLY Wd via MB. ........

Since they support neither Neteller nor Credit cards (for withdrawal), there is no chance of ME playing there in any case, they would struggle to pay me any winnings.

 

[Pinababy69]

It wasn't that hard to find after all, lol:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/accredited-casino-new-rule-suggestion.34390/

That was back in November 09. And the subject was brought up again, with NO replies back in August:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/accredited-casino-odd-transaction-limits.39362/

If they are limiting withdrawals to $500 a week, but allowing deposits of up to $2500 in one pop.....not acceptable for an accredited casino, IMO of course.

Bryan either needs to get them to agree to change their max payout per week to an acceptable amount, or remove them. Again, JMO.

It seems to me that some players are happy with absurdly small payments, made over a period of time. The only acceptable payment plan to me is payment in full....within 24 hrs. If it were an unusually large amount...then I'd even allow 48 to 72 hrs. But nothing more than that, and nothing less than the total amount owed.

It's sort of funny...in that first thread, Bryan commented that if he removed every casino that had a withdrawal limit (weekly/monthly) from the accredited list....then he'd be left with about five. Don't know why I didn't comment at the time....but my response would be "yeah, now we're talking", lol.

Maybe the others would try and do better to get back on that list.

Honestly, what is the point of payment plans? I'm not talking about US customers either..I mean with players who use MB, Neteller, etc. There are basically no limits (or very high limits) of what amount can be sent. So what is with these measly 1K and 2K and 3K payments? I see no logical reasoning except the casino hoping that the player will lose it all back before they have to pay out the full amount. OR.....the casino is underfunded, and playing the pyramid game and waiting on deposits to pay withdrawals. Either one is unacceptable to me.

 

[Nate]

How does this help players to GAMBLE RESPONSIBLY. If someone is depositing $500 at a time, they may NOT want to suddenly double the risk to $1000 at a time. The limit of $500 for a player depositing $500 gives them NO opportunity to win & get paid in reasonable time from their deposit, and often what happens is that players play back their winnings because they are having to wait a week before they can request even the first chunk of winnings from a $500 deposit.

Moneybookers should be pretty safe compared with other ewallet solutions, and should be on a par with wire transfer. From the PLAYERS' point of view, ewallets add a layer between their bank accounts and the casino, whereas wire transfer gives the casino direct access to their bank details. This is one of the advertised safety benefits of using an ewallet compared to directly using bank transfers or cards with casinos.

Moneybookers are hardly going to screw the casino, UNLIKE many of the US facing processors have done in the past.

These rules seem aimed at keeping hold of money for as long as possible, earning interest for the casino on money that does not even belong to it. Banks are known to like the 3/4 day clearing period just BECAUSE it allows them to earn 3 days interest on money it is "clearing" through it's systems.

This limit is TEN TIMES WORSE than limits experienced with RTG casinos. I once had to wait 3 weeks to get all my winnings from Club World because of it's $3000 per week limit. This would have been SEVEN MONTHS of waiting were I to have had a similar session at VIPSlots!

To me, this is one accredited group I would steer well clear of because of these silly limits.

Maybe they DON'T want "medium rollers" to play there with only a few hundred dollars at a time, yet "low rollers" who deposit $25 at a time & play 20c spins are unlikely to be seriously inconvenienced by a limit that allows them to win up to 20x their deposit before hitting the weekly limit.

High Rollers seem to be able to negotiate their limits, yet it seems they have to deposit in large chunks, rather than a certain amount overall.

Shady indeed. Although i don't have a cashout pending, I think it is fair for the Forum to be aware of such activity. If this was their limit and there were no negotiations luring players to UP their deposits to qualify for a higher WD limit, then it would suffice to say it could be dealt with on another level.

I have been an avid player for many years. During this time I have experienced several issues and have kept quiet about them. My philosophy will be to expose anything i come across that may be detrimental to any player and to be as open as possible concerning any dealings that i may have had with a casino.

I have also started to keep logs of play and will share this with you for you to understand that the losing streaks are beyond normal at times and the stench of a dead rat is in the air.

Having the Capital to play what i want and when i wish, my only limitations are those imposed by the Casinos and Ewallets. I have been restricted by MB on outgoing funds because i need to verify my address (by snail mail) etc. CC's are restricted in some areas and ultimately if my returns are so poor and i am unable to deposit, i will move on and try greener pastures.

Anyways... I hope that everybody has the same philosophy and will speak up when they feel an injustice has been done... Like i said before... An injustice to 1 player... Is an injustice to ALL

 

[The Dude]

Okay, I'm on it. I'm contacting the casino rep to see what's up.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Okay, I'm on it. I'm contacting the casino rep to see what's up.

It would be fair to change the accredited section to reflect this $500 limit that applies to all but 2 withdrawal methods. To quote $5000 per week only is unfair on NEW players, who use the accredited list to decide where to play. It is these NEW players that are going to find out the hard way that their limit is a mere $500 per week, not $5000 as advertised. This implicates CM, as well as the casino, in trying to "hide" this uncomfortable rule in the "small print".

Maybe honesty in quoting $500 as the limit for most withdrawal methods as standard will be enough to make the casino reconsider whether they really NEED such low limits.

It's not just about the weekly limits, it is about how INCREDIBLY LOW this limit is, even when compared with the much maligned RTG and Rival casinos imposing "miserly" limits between $2000 and $3000.

Players who only make tiny deposits may well never be in a position to suffer from a $500 limit, since when they win from their small deposits, they may rarely get near $500.

A player like myself would CONSTANTLY be running up against this limit, and I would be pretty peeved if I joined on the back of the promised $5000 per week advertised in the accredited list, only to find out it was only $500 that would be paid per week, taking 10 weeks to get what is advertised as taking one.

Having the correct limits advertised would allow players to make an informed choice as to whether they were prepared to be limited to $500 per week in order to play at this group, or use the two deposit methods that DO qualify for a $5000 per week limit.

 

[EHCasino Team]

VT Casino Payout

We at EHCasino's appreciate all feedback, both positive and negative. This enables us to strive at offering the best in the online casino experience. As a result of this we have decided to review our withdrawal limits and come to a compromise that we feel would be fair to all participants at any of the VT Casino Brands.

The current list of withdrawal options and limits for VIPSlots are viewable at the following link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

EHCasino Team.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

We at EHCasino's appreciate all feedback, both positive and negative. This enables us to strive at offering the best in the online casino experience. As a result of this we have decided to review our withdrawal limits and come to a compromise that we feel would be fair to all participants at any of the VT Casino Brands.

The current list of withdrawal options and limits for VIPSlots are viewable at the following link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

EHCasino Team.

Installment payments (along with designated installments ,lol, of the TandC's, etc.)=part of the designed business model to defraud the Player!! Congratulations!!

 

[The Dude]

Installment payments (along with designated installments ,lol, of the TandC's, etc.)=part of the designed business model to defraud the Player!! Congratulations!!

Eh? lost me there.

I've updated the accred section to reflect the withdrawal limits on these casinos.

Most Withdrawal limits = $5,000 per week
Quickcash - $850 per week
Moneybookers, Click2Pay, EcoCard - $500 per week

I know this sucks, but this is due to player fraud rings that have been using these ecash providers in dubious ways. I'll be meeting the EH rep (not the forum one ) in Budapest next week to see if this policy can be reconsidered.

 

[Nate]

Eh? lost me there.

I've updated the accred section to reflect the withdrawal limits on these casinos.

Most Withdrawal limits = $5,000 per weekQuickcash - $850 per week
Moneybookers, Click2Pay, EcoCard - $500 per week

I know this sucks, but this is due to player fraud rings that have been using these ecash providers in dubious ways. I'll be meeting the EH rep (not the forum one ) in Budapest next week to see if this policy can be reconsidered.

Thank you Bryan,

I do however believe that this is not an accurate description of what they offer. There are only 2 options which offer $5k a week - That is Usemywallet and Bankwire. Bankwire will cost you a cool $35 per withdrawal -so will a check and Quickcash.

The Majority of their withdrawals are therefore Under $850 per week.

My next point query is why this Casino has been attempting to get players to deposit MORE to increase their MB Withdrawal limits. Surely if this was a case of concerns over Fraud, the same would apply?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Installment payments (along with designated installments ,lol, of the TandC's, etc.)=part of the designed business model to defraud the Player!! Congratulations!!

Eh? lost me there...............I know this sucks, but this is due to player fraud rings that have been using these ecash providers in dubious ways. I'll be meeting the EH rep (not the forum one ) in Budapest next week to see if this policy can be reconsidered.

I'll take two mulligans to attempt (once again).

Pina says it plain and clear in this thread per parts of her post #21 and highlighted by her final paragragh as quoted here:

Honestly, what is the point of payment plans? I'm not talking about US customers either..I mean with players who use MB, Neteller, etc. There are basically no limits (or very high limits) of what amount can be sent. So what is with these measly 1K and 2K and 3K payments? I see no logical reasoning except the casino hoping that the player will lose it all back before they have to pay out the full amount. OR.....the casino is underfunded, and playing the pyramid game and waiting on deposits to pay withdrawals. Either one is unacceptable to me.

In addition, I recollect this past post by Slotster in reply to Chuchu's post that I will use as mulligan #2:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/a-letter-to-players-of-slots-oasis-casino.32838/

Yep...

Whenever I see threads like this, I get increasingly annoyed.

I fear/feel for the people who aren't aware/don't have access to Casinomeister who will be left hung out to dry by these sort of tactics.

Don't care what anyone says, don't care what people think about casino reps personally. Pay your players on time when they win - end of story. No excuses. Ever. Don't run a casino and then expect to win all ends up... It's pathetic.

When I see reps posting about how they are 'speaking to upper management' 'trying to get it sorted' blah blah blah ... whatever - makes me want to vomit. It is the paramount and single most important part of your business; there are no excuses ever under any circumstances for payments not being made.

People have actually posted in this thread insinuating that, because they were paid WITHIN 8 DAYS - that's timely and ok!?? Jeez... What is wrong with people!? Forgetting all the current delays and nonsense, that's outrageous in itself.

Don't run a casino if you can't pay people equally as quickly as you can take their money.

Idiots.

The above said and now hopefully clearer, your reply above also states:

know this sucks, but this is due to player fraud rings that have been using these ecash providers in dubious ways.

Eh? you lost me there!!

 

[The Dude]

...Eh? you lost me there!!

Sorry, I was trying to explain the reasoning behind the limits on some of these ewallets. Some casinos - this one in particular, has been dealing with player fraud stemming from these ewallets. They have other options for payments that don't have these limits - and it's all posted in their cashier section. Yes, it's unexpected and has taken some players by surprise - and yeah, that sucks. That's one of the reasons I've posted this info in the Accred section; players who sign up via there will be aware of this.

It's not a sign of underfunding; it's a sign that this casino has taken extreme measures to undermine fraud. Should the casino remove these limits and expose itself? That's the million $ question - and that's what I hope to discuss with them next week.

I'm not sure about the whole issue about deposit more money and they'll raise their limits. It makes sense to an extent that if a player seems to be a bona-fide player, why not? Or just use another method to deposit funds.

 

[Nate]

I'm not sure about the whole issue about deposit more money and they'll raise their limits. It makes sense to an extent that if a player seems to be a bona-fide player, why not? Or just use another method to deposit funds.

Its a shady attempt to get more $$$$ through to the Casino IMPO. The Casino does not know me, and i have never signed up at ANY VT Casino before. How can this be plausible if they assume me to be a 'bona-fide' player all because i can deposit more money?

Bryan, honestly, if one of your loyal players from this site deposits $50 and wins 3k... it will take him 6 weeks to be paid. They WILL NOT negotiate limits then. Because a player wants to deposit higher - they are willing to make a promise to rake in the cash... why can't they be fair and refrain from using FRAUD as an issue? I see their tactics in order to have a higher deposit come in as questionable and unethical!!!!!!!

______________________________

Edit: They have been suffering from player fraud, yet they choose to accept UNLIMITED funds from these wallets with a Max of $2500 PER Transaction... Jeez

 

[The Dude]

...Bryan, honestly, if one of your loyal players from this site deposits $50 and wins 3k... it will take him 6 weeks to be paid. They WILL NOT negotiate limits then. Because a player wants to deposit higher - they are willing to make a promise to rake in the cash... why can't they be fair and refrain from using FRAUD as an issue? I see their tactics in order to have a higher deposit come in as questionable and unethical!!!!!!!

That's one of the things we're going to talk about...

 

[Simmo!]

I understand withdrawal limits (within reason) before ID checks. But when you're talking to them Bryan, my argument would be that if they have done their ID check - to the extent where they are happy to continue to accept deposits by a player - then the limits should be raised or, as with many good casinos, abolished. The argument being that if they still suspect fraud after their KYC stuff then the procedures they use are insufficient.

 

[Nate]

Edit: They have been suffering from player fraud, yet they choose to accept UNLIMITED funds from these wallets with a Max of $2500 PER Transaction... Jeez

That's one of the things we're going to talk about...

Thank you for taking the time to address this - I would also like clarity on the quoted Edit above..

Nate

 

[The Dude]

I've just been informed that the limit for Moneybookers and Click2pay is being raised to $5K per week. Their websites should be updated shortly to reflect this change.

Thanks EH!

 

[Jasminebed]

I've just been informed that the limit for Moneybookers and Click2pay is being raised to $5K per week. Their websites should be updated shortly to reflect this change.

Thanks EH!

Now that's more like it! I would have never considered playing at a site where my withdrawals are capped at $500 per week. I deposit via prepaid Credit Card or Moneybookers always.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry, I was trying to explain the reasoning behind the limits on some of these ewallets. Some casinos - this one in particular, has been dealing with player fraud stemming from these ewallets. They have other options for payments that don't have these limits - and it's all posted in their cashier section. Yes, it's unexpected and has taken some players by surprise - and yeah, that sucks. That's one of the reasons I've posted this info in the Accred section; players who sign up via there will be aware of this.

It's not a sign of underfunding; it's a sign that this casino has taken extreme measures to undermine fraud. Should the casino remove these limits and expose itself? That's the million $ question - and that's what I hope to discuss with them next week.

I'm not sure about the whole issue about deposit more money and they'll raise their limits. It makes sense to an extent that if a player seems to be a bona-fide player, why not? Or just use another method to deposit funds.

I've just been informed that the limit for Moneybookers and Click2pay is being raised to $5K per week. Their websites should be updated shortly to reflect this change.

Thanks EH!

Their reasoning does not seem to match their actions. IF they were suffering fraud from these methods, it would make sense to limit DEPOSITS as well as withdrawals.

Telling players to simply "choose a different method" is arrogant. eWallets were DESIGNED for internet based gaming activites, the other methods just "happen to work there as well". Further, there are LARGE FEES for the alternatives, which seem unjustified considering that these methods are apparently the PREFERRED options (unless this preference is merely because of the fees they can charge).
The OP DID try to use one of the alternative methods available, but WAS NOT ALLOWED TO, hence the complaint.

I am not at all sure about this "dubious ways" argument, since these eWallets are REGULATED. Moneybookers by the UK! Moneybookers for examole, is REQUIRED to take stringent measures to prevent money laundering, just as the casinos claim they have to. Casinos should NOT therefore be having a problem with "dirty" money coming in from such eWallets, but WILL be at risk on credit cards, because they CANNOT refund back to the card, AND it is a "card not present" environment which has seen a sharp increase in fraud since chip & pin was introduced.

The increase to $5000 per week is a great improvement, as it places these methods on a par with others. I would ASSUME that all ID checks would have been made BEFORE paying the first withdrawal, even when they had the $500 limit.

I am also surprised that they don't have Neteller, only Moneybookers. They are cutting themselves off from half the potential player base, since many will have one or the other, not necessarily both. They cannot even refund to VISA, which is also surprising, and this would leave me no way to receive winnings if I played there without having to pay these high fees. The highest fee to date that I have paid is £1 in Intercasino for a Neteller withdrawal. Even this policy is rare, and only Intercasino & Purple Lounge have charged me for withdrawals. $35 is very much higher than these fees, and cheque is LESS convenient than VISA refund.