Bellavegas(Microgaming) won't pay 20K

[Linus]

Originally Posted by suzecat

Any and all play by any ineligible person shall be voided, including any winnings accruing to any ineligible person.

This restriction applies equally to most - if not all - American players.

Gambling is generally prohibited under state law, not federal law. And most states generally prohibit gambling, except under limited and specific exceptions. No state offers an exception for online gambling. Thus, you are almost certainly prohibited from gambling online, if you live in America.

To the extent that Autumn was violating the laws of Nevada, she's in no different position from any American player.

It is true that the Federal law that purports to regulate gambling in America is ambiguous (the Justice Dept. has said it does apply to online gambling, at least one court has expressed an opposite view).

But it's the states that are primarily responsible for regulating gambling, in America. And to my knowledge, no state allows it.

If it's the casino's position that gambling illegally voids the player's winnings, that applies to all American players, not just Autumn.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/

[suzecat]

Originally Posted by Linus

This restriction applies equally to most - if not all - American players.

Gambling is generally prohibited under state law, not federal law. And most states generally prohibit gambling, except under limited and specific exceptions. No state offers an exception for online gambling. Thus, you are almost certainly prohibited from gambling online, if you live in America.

To the extent that Autumn was violating the laws of Nevada, she's in no different position from any American player.

It is true that the Federal law that purports to regulate gambling in America is ambiguous (the Justice Dept. has said it does apply to online gambling, at least one court has expressed an opposite view).

But it's the states that are primarily responsible for regulating gambling, in America. And to my knowledge, no state allows it.

If it's the casino's position that gambling illegally voids the player's winnings, that applies to all American players, not just Autumn.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/

Thanks Linus! I checked out the above site and find that as I reside in California, I am cool to play!

Did you read the summary table before you submitted your post? Your statement that "no state allows it" is patently false. Although in the Autumn case, since Nevada DOES expressly prohibit internet gambling, this player has committed a felony under Nevada law.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by Linus

But it's the states that are primarily responsible for regulating gambling, in America. And to my knowledge, no state allows it.

But not all states disallow it

[Linus]

Originally Posted by suzecat

Thanks Linus! I checked out the above site and find that as I reside in California, I am cool to play!

Did you read the summary table before you submitted your post? Your statement that "no state allows it" is patently false. Although in the Autumn case, since Nevada DOES expressly prohibit internet gambling, this player has committed a felony under Nevada law.

You're confusing "specifically prohibiting online gambling" with generally prohibiting gambling.

While not all states have a specific law criminalizing online gambling, that doesn't make it legal. The state's general law prohibiting gambling would still apply.

Take a look at the chart again. Next to CA you'll see the word "misdemeanor." A misdemeanor is (generally) a crime that's punishable for less than one year.

The other states are states that have laws specifically prohibiting internet gambling, in addition to general gambling laws.

Here's a section from the CA Penal Code:

Penal Code Sec. 330.

Every person who deals, plays, or carries on, opens, or causes to be opened, or who conducts, either as owner or employee, whether for hire or not, any game of faro, monte, roulette, lansquenet, rouge et noire, rondo, tan, fan-tan, seven-and-a-half, twenty-one, hokey-pokey, or any banking or percentage game played with cards, dice, or any device, for money, checks, credit, or other representative of value, and every person who plays or bets at or against any of those prohibited games, is guilty of a misdemeanor, and shall be punishable by a fine not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by both the fine and imprisonment.

(Note, there are other sections that might apply, in addtion to this one.)

Think of it this way. Suppose it's illegal to steal in your state. That your state doesn't also specifically prohibit stealing through the internet, doesn't make that form of stealing ok.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by winbig72

But not all states disallow it

Yes, they do.

All states generally prohibit gambling, with specific exceptions. (Poker, bingo, Indian reservations, the state lottery, or whatever the state allows.)

While not all states specifically prohibit internet gambling, no state allows it.

(South Dakota, at one time, was considering becoming the first.)

Without a specific exception, the state's general law against gambling applies.

Again, as an example, if your state has a law against stealing, the fact that it doesn't specifically prohibit stealing apples, doesn't make stealing apples ok. That's true even if another state does have a law specifically about stealing apples.



Anyway, I'm not arguing people should give up gambling, just because it's illegal. (I haven't.)

What I'm saying is that the technicality the casino is using to take Autumn's winnings applies to all American players. Not just her.

[AceMan76]

I agree with most of Linus' analysis on gambling statutes. I'm waiting for a casino to deny winnings based on the fact the state where the player resides has a general anti-gambling statute. I think it is very likely to happen. Or on the flip side, for local authorites to prosecute or confiscate the winnings of a big winner that is publicized. It will happen eventually. If you live in a state with a general anti-gambling statute, and most of us do, beware.

[suzecat]

Originally Posted by Linus

Yes, they do.

All states generally prohibit gambling, with specific exceptions. (Poker, bingo, Indian reservations, the state lottery, or whatever the state allows.)

While not all states specifically prohibit internet gambling, no state allows it.

(South Dakota, at one time, was considering becoming the first.)

Without a specific exception, the state's general law against gambling applies.

Again, as an example, if your state has a law against stealing, the fact that it doesn't specifically prohibit stealing apples, doesn't make stealing apples ok. That's true even if another state does have a law specifically about stealing apples.



Anyway, I'm not arguing people should give up gambling, just because it's illegal. (I haven't.)

What I'm saying is that the technicality the casino is using to take Autumn's winnings applies to all American players. Not just her.

For the most part, Linus, your arguments fall into a gray area that is being tossed about by the Congress/Senate. Until such time, if ever, these esteemed persons change the law to specifically exclude online gambling for all States in the Union, it is NOT an enforceable ban. That being said, the State of Nevada where Autumn resides HAS specifically excluded online gambling for all persons who reside there. Add to that her underage status for gambling in Nevada and there falls the crux of my previous argument.

And as I have said many times before, I am a baby boomer and as such don't have a problem being labeled a rebel (and committing misdemeanor offenses as needed). Call me crazy, just don't call me late to the tables.........

[Linus]

No, this has nothing to do with the Congress or the Senate. This has to do with state law. And it's no more illegal for Autumn to gamble in Nevada than it is for you to gamble in CA. If they can take her winnings, they can take yours.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by Linus

No, this has nothing to do with the Congress or the Senate. This has to do with state law. And it's no more illegal for Autumn to gamble in Nevada than it is for you to gamble in CA. If they can take her winnings, they can take yours.

Right now, even for states, this is a gray area. If it was illegal to gamble online right now, why would some states have laws specifically saying it? Technically if you live in a state that doesn't have such a law, then it's fine.

Even if the casinos wanted to take winnings (before the federal law passes, if it does) by saying it's illegal in your state, they wouldn't. If they were to do so it'd cut their profits in half.

If they truely wanted to bypass all this BS, they'll do like some casinos already are doing - not allowing ANY players from the USA.

[sdaddy]

Linus,

You are really making some solid arguments here. You get to what has been my biggest problem with Bella Vegas actions all along: that they chose to SELECTIVELY apply anti-gambling restrictions on players in the United States and in a very self-serving way.