Bellavegas(Microgaming) won't pay 20K

**suzecat** · 29th March 2006, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by paul02085

IMO this is nothing but a ripoff by the casino.

There is no way in h.ll they would call this person if she had lost $20k and said hey you arent supposed to play here, you are not of age, sorry we just realized it, so we are going to give you your $20k back and close your account.

Painting the casino as just upholding the Nevada laws is laughable IMO. Come on now. Does anyone really believe that?

The casino execs are probably sitting there laughing saying can you believe that bs about underage worked, lol.

I would say, if anything, the casino execs are smiling about the workings of human nature. If I needed to venture a guess, it would be that the paid winnings have all been deposited back to the casino. Once the player hit the $20k win, the underage card was pulled out and played. Win/win for the casino; lose/lose for the player. Gotta love the name: gambling. So why give them the out?

**caruso** · 29th March 2006, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by paul02085

IMO this is nothing but a ripoff by the casino.

There is no way in hell they would call this person if she had lost $20k and said hey you arent supposed to play here, you are not of age, sorry we just realized it, so we are going to give you your $20k back and close your account.

Painting the casino as just upholding the Nevada laws is laughable IMO. Come on now. Does anyone really believe that?

The casino execs are probably sitting there laughing saying can you believe that bs about underage worked, lol.

A-frigging-men, my friend.

Does anyone really believe that? LOL, no - they don't. What makes me laugh though is they probably actually think people DO believe it. Yes, we really are all THAT dumb. We actually believe they missed seventeen deposit and three cashouts, then with spectacular coincidence caught it just when she hit big. Yes: we really are all THAT dumb.

**AussieDave** · 29th March 2006, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

Grand Prive have already shown that public posts have little or no effect on them....*heavy sigh*

Adding look what it did for that Playtech casino Black W....

**Casinomeister** · 29th March 2006, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by caruso

A-frigging-men, my friend.

Does anyone really believe that? LOL, no - they don't. What makes me laugh though is they probably actually think people DO believe it. Yes, we really are all THAT dumb. We actually believe they missed seventeen deposit and three cashouts, then with spectacular coincidence caught it just when she hit big. Yes: we really are all THAT dumb.

I don't appreciate being called dumb in my own forum. If you feel that this is the way to handle this situation, take a hike Caruso - don't piss me off.

It has been made perfectly clear a number of times how this occured - I'm not going to invest a lot of time in rehashing what was said at WOL. The fact of the matter is:

The player signed up and was allowed to play.
The player won small amounts and was paid.
The player ended up winning a large amount and the account was audited per standard operating procedures.
During the audit it was discovered that she was under 21 in a juridiction that requires one to be 21 to gamble.

This is not rocket science - she was wrong and she knew it. This was made clear when she first approached me arguing that the servers were where the jurisdiction should be determined. This is what she told me:

I will argue that my jurisdiction of play is in the Caribbean where the servers are located, not in the United States

All these claims that the casino was aware that she was not of legal age don't wash. She has yet to show me an email exchange between herself and the casino where she states - "I'm only 19 and reside in a jurisdiction that requires me to be 21 - can I play?" Sure, there is fault here from the casino not having extensive filters set up - but if you are aware that you are wrong, you are wrong.

If anyone was "ripped off" here it was the casino. The casino has paid back her deposists since it viewed her activities as void - this was done before she began to complain about this. So she has lost not a cent. Is she going to return her winnings? Nope, I don't think so. The casino is out of this amount as well.

To conclude - the player was wrong knowing she should not have played there. The casino was wrong for not having better safeguards set up to disallow 18-20 year olds from gambling from certain jurisdictions.

And I already mentioned that I was hoping to get something done with this, but you know what? Fuck it. I'm not wasting my time with this anymore.

**autumn12** · 29th March 2006, 09:57 AM

"The player won small amounts and was paid"

One of the cashout they processed was for over $5000, this absolutely not a small amount.

For this amount you are asked for an ID even in a land casino to verify your identity, if you win in a machine more than 1200 you are even being asked to fill a form. They knew what is going on. I had no idea I am not a legitmate player for them.

They audited the account but because I was losing they let it go.

bryan, can you please reconsider my case and send them a firm email that what they done is not ethical at all.

I was their player, I was their custmer for couple of months. I played by the rules, for Bellavegas the age of 18 was the minimum age.

Do you really think they did not know my age when they processed the over $5000 cashout ? is that a small amount ?

**autumn12** · 29th March 2006, 10:12 AM

How can you say that the casino was ripped off here and not the player ?

How can you determine that I knew I am not at legal age for Bellavegas if I am telling you here and also back then that I really did not know.

Do you really think that I am going to risk thousands of thousands knowing I might not get paid.

I did not play the slots machine there.

I played thousands of $ a hand risking my money from my pocket just to take advantage of their games and promotions that I was offered from time to time.

They sent me special invitation, I was their customer.

I started to claim about the server jurisdiction only when Bellavegas brought the jurisdiction issue into the air, not before that.

What do you mean I had lost not a cent ?

I lost around 20,000 in winnings, winnings is my the balance in the casino, winnings is money.

I trusted the casino, the casinos act like a bank, they have to pay your balance once you cashout , they voided my winninngs.

Isn't it obvious that the player should be paid ? I really did not know that I am breaching any casino term here.

It is like if the casino says that my jurisdiction is to determine tax issues and if I don't pay tax I breached the law and I am going to be punished by the casino doing so ?

And again do you really believe honestly that $5000 is a small amount

What we argue in our email corespondence was because we tried to argue what is it to determine their server or my home, it was after they started with the excuses and the philosophy of not paying me.

Look at Grandprive, you sent them an email they even did not responded.

Caruso worked on that , nothing, they don't care. They took my 20,000 and gone

If you think it is waste of your time then it is waste of your time, I can not tell you what to do with your time, but I can say one thing, being a client there for couple of month playing there at a weekly basis, I had no idea I ever going to be banned there without getting paid.

I think you should reconsider all the case after I brought to your attention that a single cashout of more than $5000 was processed with no questions.

**caruso** · 29th March 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I don't appreciate being called dumb in my own forum. If you feel that this is the way to handle this situation, take a hike Caruso - don't piss me off.

And I already mentioned that I was hoping to get something done with this, but you know what? Fuck it. I'm not wasting my time with this anymore.

So let me get this straight: I voice my opinion that the casino is collectively regarding us - "us" the PLAYERS, not you, casinos, affiliates, mediators or whoever else - as idiots. You decide to interpret this as a slight against you, on the bizarre basis that you form part of the collective "we" and I am therefore calling you "dumb" as a result

; on THAT basis - on the basis of your misinterpretation of MY words, you say "fuck it", and penalise the PLAYER?? What did she do??

I've got that right, yes? That's how it works?

No WAY should this player be penalised for your issues with me. No way. That's flat out unfair. You want me to "apologise" for YOUR misinterpreation of my words? OK: if that means you won't carry through this threat to drop the matter and claim it as "my" fault, OK. I apologise. There.

**caruso** · 29th March 2006, 02:31 PM

Timbie - I apologise to you if my "interference" is going to be used to jeopardise any potential solution. Truly, I am really sorry if that happens. It totally busts my balls to see this happening to you. Other than it being your 20K not mine, one way or another I take this personal.

**jetset** · 29th March 2006, 02:44 PM

Oh, for God's sake stop being a martyr for a moment and address our host here with the respect he deserves, Caruso.

If you spent a moment breathing deeply and counting to ten before leaping all over your keyboard you would achieve way better results, and your attempt to force a confrontation here could be avoided.

**Casinomeister** · 29th March 2006, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by caruso

Timbie - I apologise to you if my "interference" is going to be used to jeopardise any potential solution. Truly, I am really sorry if that happens. It totally busts my balls to see this happening to you. Other than it being your 20K not mine, one way or another I take this personal.

Caruso - there was a paragraph break between the "don't piss me off" statement and my opinion of the issue. These are two separate topics. Your in-the-face flag waving has nothing to do with my feelings about this. It's merely annoying. You didn't jeopardize any solution. It's still out there waiting for a response.

And don't assume I'm satisfied with this situation. I think it sucks. This casino should have had safeguards implemented to prevent this from happening. But they didn't - like many of their counterparts - and they expected their players to abide by the terms and conditions that explicitly stated:

In particular, determination of the legality of real money casino play is the Player's sole responsibility. By placing real wagers, the Player warrants that he/she is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction and that he/she accepts that CASINO GRAND BAY is unable to provide any warranties as to the legality or validity of their participation in real money play.

So what the hell?

I hope this thread serves a purpose. Perhaps it should be sending a message to ALL casino operators to up their legal ages to 21+. It would save a lot of headaches.