Bellavegas(Microgaming) won't pay 20K

**suzecat** · 2nd April 2006, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Linus

Well, it's true that it's difficult to sue foreign corporations in places like Gibraltar and Belize. Courts need jurisdiction, in order to hear a lawsuit. As a general rule, courts in one country don't have jurisdiction over another country.

Also, since internet gambling is illegal in the US, no US court would hear a lawsuit over an activity that was illegal in the first place.

Finally, even if you did somehow get a court to rule in your favor, you wouldn't be able to collect on any judgment, unless the casino had assets that you could seize. Since the casinos are careful not to keep assets in the US, that would be impossible.

The casino industry runs on trust.

The only they have to fear is that people will find out that their money isn't safe with them, and that new players won't keep depositing.

Even though Autumn has no effective recourse, at least now other players have been warned.

BellaVegas was happy to advertise for 18 year-olds. They were happy to take Autumn's money, even after she told them she was 19. They're happy to take Americans' money, even though - according to their Terms and Conditions - no American is eligible to play there.

They only became unhappy when Autumn won money at their casino.

What's to stop them from becoming unhappy if you or I win money there?

Apparently, nothing.

"Nicky's methods of betting weren't scientific, but they worked. When he won, he collected. When he lost, he told the bookies to go f... themselves. I mean, what were they going to do, muscle Nicky? Nicky was the muscle."

--Robert Deniro, Casino

Linus, I couldn't agree with you more. Online gambling is a "sticky-wicket" -- a cyber version of the Old Old West. Trust is fundamental and players who come here and let us know their experiences (good or bad) do us a service that is almost impossible to repay.

**jetset** · 2nd April 2006, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by suzecat

Trust is fundamental and players who come here and let us know their experiences (good or bad) do us a service that is almost impossible to repay.

Amen to that!

**amandajm** · 2nd April 2006, 11:28 PM

Forget the waffle.

Cherrypicking Nevada law will not wash.

Pay the 19 year old or nion kill the industry. I am easy either way.

**iataz** · 3rd April 2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

One thing I gotta say is that I never thought I'd see the day where a Micro (and especially one with an ECogra Seal) would be rogued. Not even sure if I totally agree with it,.

I have to disagree Pina.. issues have been going on with these casinos for awhile now, this IMHO was just the icing on the cake.. and I can guarantee you that Grand Prive could care less if they are on the Rogue list or not..as I was told by Marc at one time that "they don't pay a lot of attention to what is posted at CM because those people that are posting are the type of players that the casino doesn't want and those players know why"

Fact is that you don't get "carded" sometimes UNTIL you win big. I've had cashouts of $500, $1000, even up to $7,000 and never been asked for one piece of ID, not even so much as a phone call to verify that I'm not a 12-year old (I'm 42). All too often the only time ID gets asked for is when a progressive gets hit or an amount say over 10K. I'm not saying that's right, just saying that I think it's very common practice is all.

The first time I ever cashed out at Grand Prive, Fortune Lounge, I had to fax them a copy of my id and a copy of a utility bill. Things must have changed in the past couple of years.

**amandajm** · 3rd April 2006, 07:01 PM

Meister ruled against the player.
Meister ruled against the casino.
# Same dispute.

Of course they are not bothered by such a thing.

**spearmaster** · 3rd April 2006, 10:14 PM

Trust me, Grand Prive cares about what is being said in here. They may not admit to it, but they are certainly aware that Casinomeister is the bellwether of the industry as far as players are concerned.

**ChristopherB** · 3rd April 2006, 10:15 PM

Suzecat- you are quoting the wrong statute. The one you quoted is related to cheating and cheating equipment. The correct statute regarding internet gambling are NRS 465.093. Here it is:

NRS 465.093 Placing, sending, transmitting or relaying wagers to another person prohibited under certain circumstances; penalty.

1. Except as otherwise provided in NRS 465.094, a person, alone or with others, shall not knowingly:

(a) From within this state, place, send, transmit or relay through a medium of communication a wager to another person or an establishment that is located within or outside of this state; or

(b) From outside of this state, place, send, transmit or relay through a medium of communication a wager to another person or an establishment that is located within this state.

2. A person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(Added to NRS by 1997, 3319)

**Simmo!** · 3rd April 2006, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by amandajm

Forget the waffle.

Cherrypicking Nevada law will not wash.

Pay the 19 year old or nion kill the industry. I am easy either way.

Or put another way, you've broken the law once, so break it again

Which begs the age old question, do two wrongs make a right?

**amandajm** · 4th April 2006, 01:50 AM

Prove the point. No more waffle please.

Casinos that abide by Nevada law are ok.
Any others that don't surely are not doing their due diligence according to the Meister right?

32red Restricted Territories
It is the responsibility of each individual to ensure that by joining 32Red they do not breach any local laws before registering. Please note that individuals residing in the following countries are not able to join the 32Red Casino or Multiplayer Poker Room, and play for real money.

# Gibraltar
# Hong Kong

I am easy to shut up. Just make sense of it all for the uninformed like me, as I remain unconvinced by what I see before me as fair.

**winbig** · 4th April 2006, 02:53 AM

Let's get the facts here.

1) She's underage
2) The casino didn't seem to care
3) She KNEW fully well that she shouldn't be gambling ANYWHERE. The rules were in the T&C. She tried (and succeeded for awhile) in circumventing these.
4) SHE ripped off the casino if you ask me. It was THEIR fault for not catching that she was only 19 beforehand. Therefore, she got to keep her previous winnings, and should NOT be paid one cent more than that, other than her current deposit(s) to "win" that $20k.
5) Don't give me crap about "Well, they have a sign that says 18+ on their website. Should they put a * next to it and have "18+ applies to every country besides USA"? Maybe so. But if anyone was to take anything online at face print *without* reading the fine print, they're just asking for trouble. Truth is, not every country is anal about gambling as is the USA. Sure you can go to war and DIE for your country (USA) at age 17 (with parent's permission), but yet you can't gamble till you're 21. But yet you can play the lottery when you're 18. How backwards and hypocritical is that?