Topgame Slots - Rogue software?

[Pinababy69]

Was doing a bit of catch-up/reading and came across this thread at the GPWA re: Topgame Software. IF this is true, then no doubt in my mind that Rome and every other Topgame outfit belongs in the rogue pit.

While all we see so far are allegations of rigged software (ie. video slots), it appears there was enough smoke for Topgame to say they pulled the games and fixed them.....which according to the poster at the GPWA...they're not fixed. It's a short thread and worth a quick read. One to follow up on for sure.

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Original post by GPWA member Big Daddy:

Here's why...

A forum member of ours brought to our attention that the Rome Casino software (Top Gaming) is corrupt because on some of the video slots the wilds are not showing up on reels 1 and 5. In order to win the jackpot on games like Diablo 13 and Douguies Delights a player needs to have 5 wilds on 5 reels. Well the way the software is now that would be impossible since it is obvious there are no wild symbols on the 1 and 5 reels.

We have contacted Rome about this problem and pointed them to our forum and the senior VP of Top Gaming did respond but never addressed the issue of the missing wild symbols and how a player can't possibly win the jackpot.

Our forum member also informed us that the symbols used to be present on all five reels but recently have been removed with no explanation from Rome Casino.

Jonathan (the senior VP) has since abandoned the issues and has no longer responded to the forums posts. Instead they keep offering bonuses to the player as what looks like a bribe to keep her mouth closed about the issue (Quote from Jonathan... I am going to give you a small bonus again to keep our friendship open so to speak also to show our real concern and for your credible feedback.)

We downloaded the Rome Casino software and deposited $50 and it is exactly like the player said it is. No Wilds on reels 1 and 5 while playing Diablo 13, Douguies Delights and Wild 7's.

Is the APCW doing audits of software these days?

Here is a link to the original thread on CasinoScamReport Forum, where the TopGame rep actually replied and did indeed say that there WAS a technical glitch but that it had been fixed. Does anyone here have a play for fun account at Rome Casino that they can go and check these games out?

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Posted by Jonathan (TopGame Rep) on Casino Scam Report:

ok I have seen the report and after several days of QA we actually got to see the problem - and yes the wilds were found to be missing on some of the wheels - we have removed the game to fix the bug and will have it up live later this week

I want to personally thank Eviecakes for pointing this out to us and want to assure her that we have never had any intention to bribe her in any way just pure goodwill and thanking her for making us better.

Thank you also to all other posters for there input.

We would appreaciate any constructive criticism at any time - this only makes us better for You!!

best

Jonathan

So he admits that the wilds were missing on reels 1 and 5 on these slots, and says the games have been pulled, yet players say they haven't been fixed and the games are still available, and there are still no wilds. WTF? And how many people have been affected by this? This is unbelievable.....wild symbols completely missing off the reels, and you can't get the bonus game without them.

Please, can someone check this out in fun mode?

EDIT: Okay, just found page two of that thread, and now they insist the games have been pulled. Even if that's the case, how many people played these games that were IMPOSSIBLE to win on?

See Related Threads:

• Topgame
• Top Game Missing Jackpot Questions
• Polite Reminder When Playing TopGame Casinos and Why We Ask Questions
• Mona Casino - TopGame - This is Just Ridiculous
• A TOPGAME Low

Also from Casinomeister:
Stay away from ROGUE casinos like Harry's

 

[jas2587]

damn an I played this game Douguies Delights at Planet23 sigh

Cindy

 

[Pinababy69]

damn an I played this game Douguies Delights at Planet23 sigh

Cindy

Well, if I were you Cindy...I'd be demanding my money back!! Pardon the French, but how the fuck do you allow games to be live on your software with complete symbols (and the wild at that) missing, and no one knows about it? How long have these games been available? Are they new or have they been up for some time?

ANYONE who played any of these games should get a complete refund of any monies played on them.

Actually, maybe this topic belongs in a thread of its own, so that anyone who plays at Topgame can be made aware of this? I'm in absolute shock, I really am. How gaffed a game can you get?

 

[jas2587]

Well, if I were you Cindy...I'd be demanding my money back!! Pardon the French, but how the fuck do you allow games to be live on your software with complete symbols (and the wild at that) missing, and no one knows about it? How long have these games been available? Are they new or have they been up for some time?

ANYONE who played any of these games should get a complete refund of any monies played on them.

Actually, maybe this topic belongs in a thread of its own, so that anyone who plays at Topgame can be made aware of this? I'm in absolute shock, I really am. How gaffed a game can you get?

well short of giving them my 1st born to get my cashout I deposited $50 got a 200% bonus an managed to cashout $208 the bonus is withdrawable but it took from 6-9 to yesterday to get that it was a nightmare tryin to prove I am who I am

But I did with a Newport mailer that came to my house with my name papers faxed from my bank an me nothing was good enough so who knows how they think I have uninstalled them

Cindy

 

[Pinababy69]

ACCKKK!!

Okay, I went back and reread each and every post (only two pages) at that CasinoScam place, and it "sounds" even worse than I originally thought.

Here is Eviecake's original post in the thread:

I would just like voice a concern regarding my play Rome Casino. I have been playing there for a few weeks and did enjoy a couple of the slots like Dougiues Delights and Diablo 13. Dougiue had a rather large progressive of $192,000.00 that could only be won if the player got 5 wilds on a pay line, I played this game extensively and never once seen the wild symbol on reels 1 and 5, not even scroll by. Then one day the jackpot was gone so I concentrated on Diablo 13 as it currently has a jackpot of $145,000.00 running. Well, the game at first had wilds on all 5 reels consistently coming up at 3-4 many times making the payouts nice for the player, the bonus rounds which required at least 3 or more of the wizard to open was lousy, if you finally got it you may get $1 playing at 65 cents. Well then I logged on a few days ago to play Diablo 13 and they had changed the way the slot plays. The wilds had dissapeared from reels 1 and 5 and was rarely seen on 2, 3 and 4. But if you did get a five of a kind the payout was better than before but much harder to come by. The thing that really frustrated me was that the bonus rounds since the change now may or may not open. A few days ago when I was playing Diablo 13 I had gotten the 3 and 4 wizards 5 separate times playing max bets and not once did the bonus rounds open, which on the other few occasions when it did it was paying out better than the previous setting, but if it won't open, then the payer is being cheated out of bonus round winnings.
I wrote the casino an email voicing my concern which was not addressed. I played a $15 bonus they had put into my account yesterday and had moved on to the fruit slot that also had a progressive, but was totally irritated when the first bonus of getting 3 pineapples also did not open the bonus round.

Excuse me? A progressive jackpot of $192,000 was just gone? Poof? How the hell was it won if there are no wilds on reels 1 and 5? You have to have the wilds to trigger the progressive. So who won it? And how did they manage to win it with no jackpot symbols on the reels? Has anyone played this game, and was there indeed a jackpot that high?

I really can't believe this.....or am I missing something?

EDIT: I registered an account over there so that I could ask the TopGame rep where the jackpot funds are, if someone won it, and if so....how? But I can't post until my account is approved. Oh, and this has been ongoing since at least May 26th, the date of the original post, probably before. Originally the casino just told the OP that the only problem they saw with her account were timeouts due to her losing her internet connection, lol. Said there was nothing at all wrong with their software....matter of fact, their games were HOT!!! I'm gagging.

 

[CasinoMarketer]

Regarding the software, just thought I would add that a few months back I tested it out when Rome was asking to be on an affiliate site and found that:

• You couldn't split in blackjack anytime
• You could never double down at all
• My balance would somtimes change for a few seconds and then revert back to normal

There was more that I can't remember and I think most of these have been fixed now but after that I decided never to play or promote the software. Would be great if someone legitimate could do a full audit of all of their games.

 

[jan.strydom]

topgame response

this was posted by me related the issue - I also have the players resonse

Please accept our sincere apology for the inconvenience caused related to the technical bugs in three of our games. We responded immediately after receiving the complaint from a Rome Casino player and after several tests managed to see the bug - We are currently in the process of fixing it and will only put it back in our system once our QA team have cleared the games and issues in question. As a software provider we certainly appreciate the constructive feedback as this helps Us and You. We have also communicated openly with the player and offered compensation related. We shall also respond to any player that had in the last two weeks played the games and feel they we inconvenienced or compromised in any way.

Thank you for the problem report as this ensure that we stay on top of our game and that we offer a proper response and urgent Fix. Thank you for playing on Topgame software and want to reassure you of our serious intent at all times.

For personal contact to any Topgame issues please feel free to contact me at any time - [email protected]

 

[jan.strydom]

players response

Hi Jonathan,
That's all I want is to see you be the best you can be as you're a great casino and I know you will catch on with many players looking for something a bit different.
As for comping me, I leave that up to you, you have already been very generous and I couldn't ask for more. No I don't think you are bribbing me, just showing your appreciation as I will show my appreciation by continuing to play at your casino, as soon as my favorite slot is working correctly . I just ask that you not dissapoint me or your other players that frequent you as we are what makes you too.
Thank You,*snip*

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan
To: '*snip*'
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: RE: response

Dear *snip*

Wow You were spot on we have managed to duplicate the issue we are fixing it this minute.

A very big thank you for your incredible input and to help make us better.

We certainly apologize for any inconvenience on your side.

I would like to offer you some form of Comp to say thanks but to do this I want to be sure that you dont see this as a form of bribe but as a truly sincere goodwill gesture.

Let me know how you feel and I will respond

Best Regards

Jonathan






From: *snip*
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:01 PM
To: Jonathan
Subject: Re: response

Hi Jonathan,
Thank you, that is very kind of you and I do hope the issue of the wilds on reels 1 and 5 on the slots in question is resolved. I do very much like your casino and would like to stay as a long time player with you, so I appreciate your attention to my concern.
*snip*
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan
To: '*snip*'
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:05 AM
Subject: RE: response

Hi there

Thanks for writing me on this matter I am currently having our technical staff checking again and again to see if we can repeat this problem will continue to do so until resolved!!

Ah you went back to play some more!! I am going to give you a small bonus again to keep our friendship open so to speak also to show our real concern and for your credible feedback.

Please stay in touch until resolved


Jonathan Strydom
Topgame Senior VP
Training/Consulting/PR
Mobile: +972526634707
Skype name - spazed

www.topgameplatform.com




From: *snip*
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: response

Hi Jonathan,
I do thank you for taking time to review my concern, but don't feel my question has been answered regarding the wild symbols on the progressive games. If my system had time outs, I did not see where it affected the plays at all, so I don't understand how this explaination would affect the lack of wild symbols on reels 1 and 5 on the slots? I clearly see the wild symbols on for instance on the fruit multiline slot, but not on Douguies Delights or Diablo 13, Rick noticed they also don't appear on the Wild 7's slot. How come?
As for the nice little win, yes it pleased me very much, but my boredom got the better of me and I gave it all back to you, so guess I will have to work on it again .
*snip*

 

[RobWin]

this was posted by me related the issue - I also have the players resonse

Please accept our sincere apology for the inconvenience caused related to the technical bugs in three of our games. We responded immediately after receiving the complaint from a Rome Casino player and after several tests managed to see the bug - We are currently in the process of fixing it and will only put it back in our system once our QA team have cleared the games and issues in question. As a software provider we certainly appreciate the constructive feedback as this helps Us and You. We have also communicated openly with the player and offered compensation related. We shall also respond to any player that had in the last two weeks played the games and feel they we inconvenienced or compromised in any way.

Thank you for the problem report as this ensure that we stay on top of our game and that we offer a proper response and urgent Fix. Thank you for playing on Topgame software and want to reassure you of our serious intent at all times.

For personal contact to any Topgame issues please feel free to contact me at any time - [email protected]

And....that's it ???..

 

[Pinababy69]

We responded immediately after receiving the complaint from a Rome Casino player and after several tests managed to see the bug - We are currently in the process of fixing it and will only put it back in our system once our QA team have cleared the games and issues in question. As a software provider we certainly appreciate the constructive feedback as this helps Us and You. We have also communicated openly with the player and offered compensation related. We shall also respond to any player that had in the last two weeks played the games and feel they we inconvenienced or compromised in any way.

Jan, I appreciate you coming and posting a response, but I have some serious issues with this whole thing.

1. You say you responded immediately once you received the complaint from the player. I don't know what the date was that she initially emailed you, but she made the post that I quoted above on May 26th. The first reply I see from you to her actually telling her something besides it's her internet connection, or the game freezing, is June 14th. That's 19 days.....is that TopGame's interpretation of immediate?

2. Do you have this player's permission to post her private correspondence with you? I am gobsmacked, I really am. It's not only private emails, it contains her name for God's sake, as well as her complete email address. It seems your trying to explain away something pretty major, by showing us that this one player is okay with your resolution. No offence to her, but I don't think she realizes that this is a pretty major screw up.

3. Where is the jackpot of $192,000 that the player in question says was in play when this problem first appeared to her? She said she logged in and it was just gone. Don't you guys announce big progressive wins like this? Who won it? And more to the point, how in the world did they win it with two of the Jackpot symbols absent (the wilds)?

4. This issue is about more than just this player whose emails you have posted. It's about every single player who has played at a TopGame casino since this "bug" has been in play. While it's great you are posting here that you are willing to compensate all players, what about the players who don't read CM? Or read any forums at all? Have you emailed each and every one of your TopGame customers (from all casinos) and informed them of this problem and offered to review their game logs and reimburse them?

On a more general note, can someone with more software savvy than I have please tell me if symbols completely missing off of reels is considered a bug? And would it really take days to locate it, or duplicate the scenario as Jan has suggested? How difficult is it to check your code and realize that symbols are missing? Jackpot symbols in fact. I mean people from the APCW, and the owner of that CasinoScam forum took a few hundred spins between them, and realized right away that the wilds were missing. Which coincidentally, coincides with the exact time that TopGame decided there really was a problem and it wasn't game freezing and dropped internet connections. If a player can see it just by spinning, how in the world can the people who maintain the software not realize they have symbols AWOL?

Also, the fact that the jackpot symbols are also wild....can someone give me any idea how much the payout ratio would be lessened by having these symbols missing?

 

[Pinababy69]

Again, just to clarify your claims of IMMEDIATE response....the player posted on May 26th and at that time said she had already emailed you. This was your first reply to her on the CasinoScam forum:

Reply by Jonathan (TopGame Rep) on June 3rd, eight days after her post -

Dear Eviecakes

We are certainly sorry that you are unhappy with your playtime at Rome Casino - we promise to look at your complaint and will forward an open report very soon and just to show our seriousness related to your issue added a goodwill!!! bonus of $65 to your account - please go and have some fun with it!!

report coming soon

Jonathan
TOPGAME

The player then posted after you saying she had gone back to you AGAIN trying to explain the problem. Your next reply to her:

Posted by Jonathan (TopGame Rep) on June 10th, 15 days after her original post -

hi Eviecakes

Thanks for your positive response and for giving us another go - Congrats on your nice win!!!

on the technical side I promised an answer - We went game session by session to see if we had any technical or system breakdown and could not find anything accept that your internet system had time outs from time to time and this could be the only reason for your screens to not show properly - as for the game payouts, We guarantee market related and better payout in all our games. because as a new platform we need to stand our ground amongst some established names and that takes some doing. So rest assured that our games are Hot.

please contact me personally anytime you need anything at - [email protected]

best Regards and enjoy your winnings!!

Jonathan
Topgame

And finally yesterday, June 16th, after it seems the forum admin (and the APCW) did some "testing" of their own, you posted that you had seen the reports, and the QA team had managed to duplicate the bug, and yes, the wilds were missing.

I shudder to think what would have happened if this player "Eviecakes" had not been smart enough to post about this publicly on a forum. And the admin of that forum went and posted at the GPWA and got the APCW involved. Simply unreal.

 

[RobWin]

please tell me if symbols completely missing off of reels is considered a bug?

Uhh, I would say that is a little more than a bug..

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: personal details

Please do not post information that could be consider private:

1.4 - No posting of privileged information. Please remember to respect other's privacy. In the public forum, do not post real names, email addresses, or other personal identifiers that may be considered privileged information. If these items are already publicly available, this shouldn't be a problem. But if these are from private correspondence, or from some user database, discretion is advised.

 

[maxd]

Maxy make *snip* *snip*, user info gone.

 

[Pinababy69]

Maxy make *snip* *snip*, user info gone.

Much appreciated Maxy.

I feel bad that I have dragged this lady, her name and her emails into this...because she was smart enough to post about her experience with the software. I'm glad she did, and I hope she understands. If I ever get posting access at that other forum, I will go and PM her and apologize. I never dreamed anyone would post her "personal" correspondence. I copied her post, figuring a public post is okay.

 

[jan.strydom]

Jan, I appreciate you coming and posting a response, but I have some serious issues with this whole thing.

1. You say you responded immediately once you received the complaint from the player. I don't know what the date was that she initially emailed you, but she made the post that I quoted above on May 26th. The first reply I see from you to her actually telling her something besides it's her internet connection, or the game freezing, is June 14th. That's 19 days.....is that TopGame's interpretation of immediate?

2. Do you have this player's permission to post her private correspondence with you? I am gobsmacked, I really am. It's not only private emails, it contains her name for God's sake, as well as her complete email address. It seems your trying to explain away something pretty major, by showing us that this one player is okay with your resolution. No offence to her, but I don't think she realizes that this is a pretty major screw up.

3. Where is the jackpot of $192,000 that the player in question says was in play when this problem first appeared to her? She said she logged in and it was just gone. Don't you guys announce big progressive wins like this? Who won it? And more to the point, how in the world did they win it with two of the Jackpot symbols absent (the wilds)?

4. This issue is about more than just this player whose emails you have posted. It's about every single player who has played at a TopGame casino since this "bug" has been in play. While it's great you are posting here that you are willing to compensate all players, what about the players who don't read CM? Or read any forums at all? Have you emailed each and every one of your TopGame customers (from all casinos) and informed them of this problem and offered to review their game logs and reimburse them?

On a more general note, can someone with more software savvy than I have please tell me if symbols completely missing off of reels is considered a bug? And would it really take days to locate it, or duplicate the scenario as Jan has suggested? How difficult is it to check your code and realize that symbols are missing? Jackpot symbols in fact. I mean people from the APCW, and the owner of that CasinoScam forum took a few hundred spins between them, and realized right away that the wilds were missing. Which coincidentally, coincides with the exact time that TopGame decided there really was a problem and it wasn't game freezing and dropped internet connections. If a player can see it just by spinning, how in the world can the people who maintain the software not realize they have symbols AWOL?

Also, the fact that the jackpot symbols are also wild....can someone give me any idea how much the payout ratio would be lessened by having these symbols missing?

to answer

1. we responded the day we received a notification - I personally don't frequent these forums for the simple reason that I would not get any work done - with respect!

2. please this is out of proportion - emails are for everybody to see today.

3. firstly the progressive jackpot was removed from the game and not won.

4. I believe we shall take look at every player related and take the proper action as stated above but for you to dictate to us what to do is unacceptable, we are a professional operation doing our best to service our product.


I believe we have more than satisfied the players issue and are sure that she will be a good ambassador for Topgame's Casino's.

to close - We as a fairly new gaming software supplier are going out of our way to ensure proper games, payout ratio's and providing a service to our operators(currently 22) we certainly have some issues to resolve but as we are a serious company with many years of combined online gaming experience, We are sure to prevail and give many players from around the world a decent gaming experience - bear with us and see.

thank you

Jonathan
Topgame

PS: the games in question will be up as soon as possible with the fixes in place.

 

[Pinababy69]

OMG, I can't even reply to you I'm so angry right now. You may not be the least professional casino rep to grace this forum, but you come very close.

You guys are unbelievable if this is your idea of a response.

 

[jan.strydom]

OMG, I can't even reply to you I'm so angry right now. You may not be the least professional casino rep to grace this forum, but you come very close.

You guys are unbelievable if this is your idea of a response.

You are now insulting me!! and that's not fair!!

 

[The Dude]

Violation of player privacy

...2. please this is out of proportion - emails are for everybody to see today...

Do you have the player's explicit permission to post her emails - to include her name and email address?

If not, this is a gross breach of player privacy that I'm sure violates your company policies...or are these normal business procedures? Please explain.

 

[jan.strydom]

Do you have the player's explicit permission to post her emails - to include her name and email address?

If not, this is a gross breach of player privacy that I'm sure violates your company policies...or are these normal business procedures? Please explain.

It was a pure oversight to get the post out and to legitimize the issue - thanks for snipping it

Jonathan
PS: I have already written the player to apologize.

 

[The Dude]

It was a pure oversight to get the post out and to legitimize the issue - thanks for snipping it...

Actually, this is rather unacceptable. An oversight? C'mon, be real. No one ever posts an email exchange without considering the consequences - especially someone like you who is representing a software provider.

 

[jan.strydom]

I can only apologize - I was actually busy editing it when the other posts went on and the mod did the snipping.

 

[The Dude]

I can only apologize - I was actually busy editing it when the other posts went on and the mod did the snipping.

I meant not only the name and email address, but the email exchange itself. Did the player give you permission to post her emails in a public forum?

 

[Pinababy69]

to answer

1. we responded the day we received a notification - I personally don't frequent these forums for the simple reason that I would not get any work done - with respect!

2. please this is out of proportion - emails are for everybody to see today.

3. firstly the progressive jackpot was removed from the game and not won.

4. I believe we shall take look at every player related and take the proper action as stated above but for you to dictate to us what to do is unacceptable, we are a professional operation doing our best to service our product.


I believe we have more than satisfied the players issue and are sure that she will be a good ambassador for Topgame's Casino's.

to close - We as a fairly new gaming software supplier are going out of our way to ensure proper games, payout ratio's and providing a service to our operators(currently 22) we certainly have some issues to resolve but as we are a serious company with many years of combined online gaming experience, We are sure to prevail and give many players from around the world a decent gaming experience - bear with us and see.

thank you

Jonathan
Topgame

PS: the games in question will be up as soon as possible with the fixes in place.

Okay, cup of tea and a few deep breaths and let's tackle this reply of yours.

1. Which response are you referring to? The one where you comped her $65 and promised that her complaint would be looked into? Or the one on June 10th (15 days after original post) where you said that the techs had gone over her sessions and all they could find was dropped connections and game freezes. Game was working fine, no problems. Matter of fact, the games were HOT, HOT, HOT!! Or is it the one on June 16th where you finally admit to the wilds being missing, after the involvement of the CasinoScam forum and the APCW? Does it take that many days for you to get "notification" of a problem as serious as this? You were corresponding with her, how could you not know?

I'm not talking about you frequenting a forum and replying to posts. I'm referring to the fact that on May 26th when she posted, she said she had already emailed you. So what took from May 26th until now to identify this elusive bug? Especially when you were told EXACTLY what to look for.

2. Emails are for everybody to see? Well Bryan has already addressed that issue, and quite nicely I might add. Emails are NOT for everyone to see, and for someone who has been in this business as long as you have, I am absolutely dumbfounded that you would make a statement such as this. Private correspondence is just that....PRIVATE.

3. You will have to clarify for me what you mean when you say the jackpot was removed? Where is it now? If your progressives work the same as at every other software that I know of, progressive monies accumulate from each spin a player takes on that particular slot. In other words, that money does NOT belong to the casino...it is network wide, and it belongs to every player who has ever played that game. Eventually it belongs to the player who wins it. It never belongs to the casino or the software provider. Exactly when are you planning on reinstating the sum of $192,000 (?) to this game?

4. You didn't even come close to answering my question, did you? Dictating? I'm not dictating to anyone.....ethics should dictate and guide your actions. So basically what you are saying is that any player who happened to play these games, but wasn't aware they were being robbed....is shit out of luck right? If they don't read this forum, or another forum...they will never be aware that they played a game which wasn't even remotely operating within advertised or expected parameters. And that's just too bad for them. So you'll compensate whatever players contact YOU....but you won't do the ethical thing and reimburse EVERYONE who played a cheating game? And it was a cheating game. Sorry Bryan, I know you hate that word...but in this case, it's appropriate. I have no idea of the motives of the software supplier/operators themselves, ie. honest mistake, cheating, incompetence, whatever. But there is no question now that the games themselves (as they were offered) were NOT fair.


You may have satisfied this one player, but this issue is not about one player. It's about software that has been proven to be unfair to ALL players who played it. Simply satisfying one player just doesn't cut it. If she had never posted on a forum, how long would this have gone on for? How many players were affected, and how many more could have been? You are just not seeing the big picture here. This is a major issue, and simply taking care of one player who was happy with a few comps is not a solution, nor is it an explanation for any of this.

She will be a good ambassador for TopGame? I'm sure she will be, just keep throwing her those comps. Perhaps she's not a very experienced player, and as I stated before, I seriously doubt she has grasped just how serious this is, and what a great service she has done the player community. I'd like to personally thank her myself, which I will do. Just the fact that you make such a statement about her being an ambassador for you, tells me you just aren't grasping what this is really about. Again, it's not about this one player.....it's about an entire player community and their future ability to trust your software, for starters.

You are sure to prevail? I guess time will tell, but I won't be placing any large bets on your success if this is the way you conduct business. It's shameful, it really is. You really should study how the truly excellent operators do things....you might pick up a thing or two. Forum etiquette for one.

You are now insulting me!! and that's not fair!!

Insulting you? My dear, that was a love tap. And please don't mention the word fair....it's an oxymoron when compared to the product you've been offering players.

It was a pure oversight to get the post out and to legitimize the issue - thanks for snipping it

Jonathan
PS: I have already written the player to apologize.

You haven't legitimized anything, just dug yourself deeper. Thank you for admitting publicly that you removed the Progressive. Silly me went searching the internet trying to find a notification of who won it, when and at which casino. Amazingly, I could find no such thing. However, you can at least partially redeem yourself by telling us all here when these jackpot funds will be returned IN THEIR ENTIRETY to the progressive pool?

 

[jan.strydom]

I really don't have to answer you for the simple reason that I believe it has been done.

The Jackpot will be put back as soon as our QA is done and we are satisfied the games are working working correctly. we have no intention to take anything away from players and have stated that several times, We shall respond to any related issue in our own way.

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Ethics are part of our Deal and shall remain so.

tx

Jonathan

 

[The Dude]

I really don't have to answer you for the simple reason that I believe it has been done.

The Jackpot will be put back as soon as our QA is done and we are satisfied the games are working working correctly. we have no intention to take anything away from players and have stated that several times, We shall respond to any related issue in our own way.

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Ethics are part of our Deal and shall remain so.

tx

Jonathan

Does your boss know you are posting these comments in this forum? Just wondering.

 

[Pinababy69]

I really don't have to answer you for the simple reason that I believe it has been done.

The Jackpot will be put back as soon as our QA is done and we are satisfied the games are working working correctly. we have no intention to take anything away from players and have stated that several times, We shall respond to any related issue in our own way.

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Ethics are part of our Deal and shall remain so.

tx

Jonathan

You don't have to answer me because WHAT has been done? Not following you Jan, sorry. Do you mean the progressive has been put back? No, that's not what you mean. You don't have to answer me at all. What you're still not getting is that it's not just me, it's everyone here. Do you think I'm the only one reading this thread? We know that's not the case, don't we?

Okay, so the JP will be returned to the pool when the game is working corrrectly. That's very good news indeed. Still doesn't explain why it was removed in the first place does it? When Eviecakes posted on May 26th, the jackpot had been removed at that time. That was a full 21 days before you publicly admitted that the wilds were indeed missing. So taking it from there, that means we KNOW it wasn't removed because you thought the game wasn't playing properly right? Matter of fact, you told the poster more than once prior to yesterday that there was no problems with the games at all. So what earthly reason does a casino have to just randomly remove a progressive jackpot from the pool? I've racked my brain, but can't come up with one. I hope you can enlighten me.

On a personal note....no need to get personal. Sorry if you don't like the questions, but all I've done is present the facts as they are. I apologize if I couldn't tailor them to be more casino rep friendly. I do think you'd be well served to keep in mind how many players read this forum on a daily basis, and remember that you are representing a product that you are trying to sell to those players.

Intimidation? If someone asking you some direct questions intimidates you, maybe you're in the wrong line of work? I think Bryan asked you a specific question re: having permission to publish full email correspondence....are you also intimidated by that?

Will be watching and waiting for the jackpot to be reinstated Jan.

 

[jetset]

These are very serious questions revolving around software fairness, potentially prejudiced players (who knows how many players may have been pouring money into this progressive whilst the Wilds were AWOL) and a rep with a rather unfortunate attitude who just does not seem to grasp the significance and importance of the issue.

Time surely for someone in authority at Topgame to get involved here in a serious attempt to sort this out before a decline to the Rogue Pit commences.

 

[Rusty]

Wow,
This thread has gone a long way in a short time.
I think Pinababy has been right on top of this and has asked all the pertinent questions so I am really only here to add my support.

We have several issues here from large to huge from business ethics to rigged software.

I will turn my attention to the software issue.

We really need a proper explanation on this as explaining missing symbols as a bug seems not to be credible unless they made some deliberate changes to the game mechanics and programming.

As I understand it the software functioned normally for a unspecified time but then over a period of a few Weeks it played an unfair game as the most player friendly symbols (Wilds) were missing from certain reels on certain games.

As it is impossible for this situation to just suddenly develop without any changes to the programming of the game we need to know when changes were made to these games, what these changes entailed and what was the purpose of these changes was and most importantly how this resulted in Wild symbols going AWOL.

I could very easy speculate about this but until Topgame respond with an appropriate response and technical explanation I will say no more than that.

All players who played these games with the missing symbols should be fully compensated as previously stated by PinaBaby.

This currently looks very bad for Topgame and I would urge them to respond to this thread as quickly as possible.

 

[Pinababy69]

These are very serious questions revolving around software fairness, potentially prejudiced players (who knows how many players may have been pouring money into this progressive whilst the Wilds were AWOL) and a rep with a rather unfortunate attitude who just does not seem to grasp the significance and importance of the issue.

Time surely for someone in authority at Topgame to get involved here in a serious attempt to sort this out before a decline to the Rogue Pit commences.

In total agreement Jetset, and thanks for stating it so concisely.

Wow,
This thread has gone a long way in a short time.
I think Pinababy has been right on top of this and has asked all the pertinent questions so I am really only here to add my support.

We have several issues here from large to huge from business ethics to rigged software.

I will turn my attention to the software issue.

We really need a proper explanation on this as explaining missing symbols as a bug seems not to be credible unless they made some deliberate changes to the game mechanics and programming.

As I understand it the software functioned normally for a unspecified time but then over a period of a few Weeks it played an unfair game as the most player friendly symbols (Wilds) were missing from certain reels on certain games.

As it is impossible for this situation to just suddenly develop without any changes to the programming of the game we need to know when changes were made to these games, what these changes entailed and what was the purpose of these changes was.

I could very easy speculate about this but until Topgame respond with an appropriate response and technical explanation I will say no more than that.

All players who played these games with the missing symbols should be fully compensated as previously stated by PinaBaby.

This currently looks very bad for Topgaming and I would urge them to respond to this thread and consider that there answer will be highly scrutinised by the informed player community that exists here.

Praise the Lord, someone who understands the workings of software and the programming of same. I'm not ashamed to say that aspect of this whole thing is beyond me, and I am extremely thankful that you will be here to interpret that part of any reply that TopGame may make. Thanks Rusty.

 

[Rusty]

Praise the Lord, someone who understands the workings of software and the programming of same. I'm not ashamed to say that aspect of this whole thing is beyond me, and I am extremely thankful that you will be here to interpret that part of any reply that TopGame may make. Thanks Rusty.

Thanks Pinababy,
There are plenty of forum members here who are savvy in the various fields relevant to this and who right now are on full bullshit alert, let's put it that way.
Thanks again for bringing this very important issue with the Topgame brand to the forums attention.

 

[bb28]

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Jonathan

When I read that comment, it really ticked me off. In defense of Pina and she doesn't need defending but I want to put my 2 cents in regardless. Pina is passionate about fairness, nothing more. She is outspoken sure and yes sometimes she might step on a few toes in voicing her concern but so what, we are adults and her motives have absolutely nothing to do with intimidating anyone or getting any perverse enjoyment from taking a stand in the name of fairness. If you bothered....to read some of her posts, you'd find that she doesn't grandstand and she is very fair minded and willingly admits if she is wrong. You also might be surprised to know that she is actually very caring and kind if you'd bother to look past your defensive posturing. Also you might note that she didn't stoop down to your level and take it personal.
Yep I'm in Pina's fan club and damn proud of it!!

Now let's get back to the real issue.

 

[jas2587]

heyyyyyy I played this game did a deposit of $50 got a 200% bonus
oops this game is Douguies Delights I did manga e a cashout
but now I wonder how much would I have cashed out if the game was programmed right

I feel slaughtered

Cindy

 

[WonderingSpirit]

2. please this is out of proportion - emails are for everybody to see today.

That reply alone is worthy of losing many customers. Incredibly f...n arrogant and stupid answer.

So if its ok for everyone to see, i would assume its ok for your casino to sell the email listings you have gathered from your casino. Its for everybody to see anyway, right? Many spammers like to buy decent sized lists.

 

[Pinababy69]

Wow, you guys have been busy little beavers, haven't you? LOL....

Good digging BB!! While the thread you have dug up may not be directly related to this particular issue, I do believe that bet size on this slot is somewhat relevant, when you take into account the people who may have indeed played it at $45 a spin, with NO chance of ever winning the JP.

I'm gonna reply to some of this in a bit, but wanted to thank Thebes Casino for participating in the thread and being willing to jump into the fire, so to speak. I realize you can't speak for TopGame themselves, only for your own brand, but your input is appreciated. Nice to see some professionalism from that side of the fence.

I went and checked the threads at the GPWA, and look what I found. This is the only new post. Big Daddy is the admin at the CasinoScamReport forum. My account at his forum is now active, and I will be posting over there, and inviting him (and Eviecakes) to join in our discussion. Jonathan thinks he didn't like me yesterday? He's going to like me alot less when I start posting this issue on every single forum I belong to, including affiliate forums. CM's forum alone can do the Google thing, but we all know Google loves links. Nothing wrong with adding a few more right?

Posted by BigDaddy at the GPWA Forum on June 17th (post #6):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Really no need for a software audit now because Jonathan the senior VP of Top Games (Rome Casino's software) admitted that the software had a glitch. They also pulled all 3 games in question from the software but this morning the games were back online with NO FIX!!!

In other words Rome Casino is allowing their players to play jackpot games that their is no chance in hell of ever winning.

I could go on and on but bottom line is that I'm done with them until they fix their software. They are officially Blacklisted on our website.

I don't know this BigDaddy, but I think he is someone I am going to like very much. Hope I can get him to participate here.

In the meantime, as I asked last night, does anyone here have an account at any of the TopGame casinos that they could try these games out to verify the claim made above? Or will their software even allow you to play a progressive game in fun mode? I know that some don't.

I see the Pit becoming more of a reality if the above statement is indeed true.

 

[Pinababy69]

Okay, this is getting even more confusing. My friend Jonathan posted this about an hour ago at the CSR forum:

Posted by Jonathan (TopGame Rep) on June 18th:

Hi

ok the games were pulled and checked - and put back yesterday - BUT not in the Jackpot area - most of the confusion is related that the wild symbols are required to win the Jackpot now that is true but not so in the normal game were the wild can appear in any line.

so to clear maybe any confusion - the wild symbols missing in line 1 and 5 is only related to the Jackpot games and not relevant in the normal game - The jackpot games are not back yet.

anybody can contact me personally if he believes he was inconvenienced in any way

hope this clears it up

Jonathan

Software check on aisle three. Is he saying that even though this is NOT the jackpot/progressive version, that having wilds missing on reels 1 and 5 does NOT affect the game's payouts? I find this incredible to believe to be honest. Do the wilds not act as a true "wild" symbol, and substitute as other symbols in a winning combination?

I feel like I'm flying blind here, because I'm not familiar with the software itself. So again, if someone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

 

[maxd]

The Thebes Casino stuff has been moved to bb28's Thebes Casino thread.

 

[jetset]

I should perhaps have added "lacking in respect for player privacy" to my post as well, but I felt that Bryan had already dealt with that directly with Topgame's rep Jan.Strydom.

Nevertheless, his/her attitude regarding the privacy of player emails should be noted among the other shortcomings exposed in this thread.

In Topgames unenviable position here, I believe I would be monitoring this thread at least three times a day as this issue escalates, and taking action to address/redress the problems.....the fact that there has been no current Topgame reaction to these extremely serious issues surrounding both its software and its attitude to the players suggests either that this is not being done, or that those concerned have such contempt for the players that they can't be bothered.

Either way, that points to a remarkable lack of professional management and care for their business imo.

 

[jas2587]

I have uninstalled all their casino's the bull they put me thru for a small cashout was out of line an now I find that game I played had bugs an it was brought to their attention way before I played an didnt do a damn thing to remedy it hell I could maybe have cashed out oh at least 1k as I was being brave an betting $9 a spin I never do that

I guess what these casino peeps dont realize if players are unhappy they walk away with a uninstall an NEVER look back as there are so many other we can for sure play at an be given a fair shake

Cindy

 

[Rusty]

I should perhaps have added "lacking in respect for player privacy" to my post as well, but I felt that Bryan had already dealt with that directly with Topgame's rep Jan.Strydom.

Nevertheless, his/her attitude regarding the privacy of player emails should be noted among the other shortcomings exposed in this thread.

In Topgames unenviable position here, I believe I would be monitoring this thread at least three times a day as this issue escalates, and taking action to address/redress the problems.....the fact that there has been no current Topgame reaction to these extremely serious issues surrounding both its software and its attitude to the players suggests either that this is not being done, or that those concerned have such contempt for the players that they can't be bothered.

Either way, that points to a remarkable lack of professional management and care for their business imo.

I could not agree more which is why I questioned if Topgame were aware of this thread - the clock is ticking.
Bryan have you had any contact with Topgame?
How long do they have to respond to these extremely serious issues before the forum has to draw its own conclusions?

If they are hoping by not responding that the fuel for this fire will burn out they are very much mistaken.
They owe an explanation to all their players.

 

[lots0]

...that those concerned have such contempt for the players that they can't be bothered.

This is the attitude I am getting from these people at top game. Behind the seines these folk at top game seem to 'Blame' all the problems on 'Bad' players...

When I asked a top game rep a few days ago about some shady goings on at one of their licensed casinos. I was told it was just another bad player causing problems... It wasn't, unless you think a player is 'Bad' if they complain about getting ripped off.

******

Top Game or the casino SHOULD repay ALL the players that played those slots during the time that the slots were missing those winning symbols.

IMO, anything less than paying/refunding ALL the players is THEFT by the casino's involved and TopGame their software provider.

 

[Pinababy69]

This is the attitude I am getting from these people at top game. Behind the seines these folk at top game seem to 'Blame' all the problems on 'Bad' players...

When I asked a top game rep a few days ago about some shady goings on at one of their licensed casinos. I was told it was just another bad player causing problems... It wasn't, unless you think a player is 'Bad' if they complain about getting ripped off.

******

Top Game or the casino SHOULD repay ALL the players that played those slots during the time that the slots were missing those winning symbols.

IMO, anything less than paying/refunding ALL the players is THEFT by the casino's involved and TopGame their software provider.

In regards to repaying the players Lots0, it came to light last night, in the thread that BB had dug up.....that in order to win the progressive on the particular game in question, the player had to be betting $45 a spin. I mean, come on....$45 a spin? Whales okay...I can see it. But the average player?

And I don't believe the paytable as it is now clearly reflects that. From my understanding, it says something like Max Bet must be played. What it should say is max bet at max coinsize right? So, a $5 coin on all nine lines. I wonder how many people even realize that? I don't play progressives, but don't most progressives usually have a fixed betsize/coin size? And it's usually anywhere from maybe 75c up to $5? You may have the option of betting one or two coins, and only able to win the JP with two coins bet. But you can't fiddle around with the coin sizes. How many people have played this slot betting say $2.25 (25c a line), thinking they were going for the jackpot?

But more relevant, is how many players actually did log on during those weeks this game was cheating, and play $45 a spin? Without ever having a chance to win the jackpot. It's sick.

I cannot believe that Topgame thinks this will just go away. And I'd still like clarification of WHY the jackpot was removed in the first place? They've put the non-progressive versions of these games back online...but are there any wilds on reels 1 and 5? According to that post at the GPWA, there isn't. So how can the machine possibly be paying out correctly with symbols missing, jackpot aside. Don't the wild symbols still counts as wilds?

I'm dumbfounded at TopGame's lack of response, and I'm somewhat surprised that more players aren't screaming their heads off about this.

Anyone here still remember the English Harbour thread? I can't help but compare the two situations, as they both relate to software that was basically cheating players out of winnings. What's the difference? In that instance, English Harbour was left with no choice but to compensate all players affected. Their faulty software was only active for a few days I believe, this TopGame gaffed version has been there for weeks!!

EDIT: I went back and quickly checked the EH thread (a whopping 83 pages btw) and my mistake, their faulty software was in play for 19 days, so about the same time as this. Of course we're not even sure how long this has been active at TopGame, all I know is that someone originally posted about it on May 26th, and she had ALREADY emailed Rome Casino about it. Who knows how long before her post it was that she emailed them the first time? And who knows how long she played the software without realizing the symbols were missing. Will we ever know? Will TopGame ever pull their heads out of the sand?

 

[Rusty]

This wont really clarify anything but it is extra information worth having.

A forum member of ours brought to our attention that the Rome Casino software (Top Gaming) is corrupt because on some of the video slots the wilds are not showing up on reels 1 and 5. In order to win the jackpot on games like Diablo 13 and Douguies Delights a player needs to have 5 wilds on 5 reels. Well the way the software is now that would be impossible since it is obvious there are no wild symbols on the 1 and 5 reels.

We have contacted Rome about this problem and pointed them to our forum and the senior VP of Top Gaming did respond but never addressed the issue of the missing wild symbols and how a player can't possibly win the jackpot.

Now Diablo 13 is unavailable in fun mode but Douguie's Delights can be played.
On the paytable it does not mention that Wilds are restricted to reels 2,3 and 4 but this is clearly the case as their is no payout listed for 5 wild symbols. (see screenshots)
Now I do not know if this has been changed since the complaint or if the OP involved with the quote above was mistaken about this slot being,
A) A Jackpot slot
B) Having 5 Wild symbols

This needs further clarification.
Unfortunately the slot which I know is for a fact a Jackpot slot Diablo 13 I can't access to get more information.
Perhaps jas5287 can reinstall the software or someone else with a real play account can get screenshots of the paytable for us?

Old Attachment (Invalid)
Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[jetset]

THE WILDS THAT WENT AWOL

What is happening at Top Game?

Alarming reports are accumulating across several Internet gambling message boards regarding what appears to be mysteriously missing Wild symbols on Top Game-powered video slots offered at Rome Casino.com.

Apparently the Wilds went AWOL instead of appearing on reels 1 and 5 in games like Diablo 13, Wild Sevens and Douguies Delights, creating a potential for prejudice among players using these games and rendering it virtual impossible for them to win.

Rome Casino managers were warned about the missing symbols, which help to build winning combinations, after several webmasters had played and confirmed the player complaints.

There are reports that Rome Casino officials claimed to have taken the affected games off the Internet and fixed the fault, but that these claims later proved to be false.

No public and official explanation has yet been offered by either Top Game or Rome Casino, and it is unknown whether the flaw has impacted the same games carried on a number of other Top Game online casinos.

Major player and affiliate information portals like Casinomeister and the GPWA are currently carrying ongoing discussions on the issue, urging both Top Game and Rome Casino to come forward and explain what caused the flaw and how it is being addressed, particularly in relation to players who used the games without knowing that they had no chance of winning.

 

[bb28]

I found this little gem in Rome's Term's and Conditons, "If a player attempts to defraud the Casino or is proven to be a cheat by making false or given false information in order to secure a place in the casino, or maligns the casino in any way with false accusation or libelous statements, Rome Casino will pursue the perpetrator using the full extent of law enforcement and its agencies in order to safeguard its reputation and will instigate any legal suits for damages against the said player and prosecute accordingly."

You can read the full terms Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) , the above was item #20.
It also appears that Rome has opened a sister site called Diceland Casino according to a post over at No Luck Needed. Diceland also has the same statement in their terms and conditions as the above.

So is this freakin unreal or what? They are telling you NOT to say anything about them that could be construed as libelous?

FYI, according to Top Games website there are 18 different casino's using this software.

 

[The Dude]

...Nevertheless, his/her attitude regarding the privacy of player emails should be noted among the other shortcomings exposed in this thread...Either way, that points to a remarkable lack of professional management and care for their business imo.

I've been waiting for Top Games' rep to answer my question earlier - it wasn't a rhetorical one - it was a serious one. "Does your boss know you are posting these comments?"

Jan.Strydom, Jonathan, whoever, is underwhelming me with his postings. I am still reeling over the Rome Casino chat section from the other thread (I'm not finished with that issue yet) - and this situation is just putting the icing on the cake.

I wouldn't touch one of these casinos with a barge pole.

Where is the due diligence? Where is the player trust? Why does it seem that these casinos have a contemptuous attitude toward players AND this forum?

Bryan have you had any contact with Topgame?
How long do they have to respond to these extremely serious issues before the forum has to draw its own conclusions?

The ball is in their court, and I've been waiting to see how proactive they could be about this...

Top Game or the casino SHOULD repay ALL the players that played those slots during the time that the slots were missing those winning symbols...

I agree. I don't understand the lack of activity here. Most reputable software providers would have tackled this with both feet running to ensure players are treated fairly, and to instill trust - it would have been the appropriate thing to do. Looks like someone slept through Online Casino Management 101.

Anyone here still remember the English Harbour thread? I can't help but compare the two situations...

Actually, this reminds me of when Mansion Casino (when they were using proprietary software) had a glitch in their VP. When you folded cards, sometimes you'd get these redealt to you. They took the game offline and refunded all losses. I got about $60 back

That's par for the course. If your software is screwy, take the game offline and pay the players back.

 

[jas2587]

This wont really clarify anything but it is extra information worth having.

A forum member of ours brought to our attention that the Rome Casino software (Top Gaming) is corrupt because on some of the video slots the wilds are not showing up on reels 1 and 5. In order to win the jackpot on games like Diablo 13 and Douguies Delights a player needs to have 5 wilds on 5 reels. Well the way the software is now that would be impossible since it is obvious there are no wild symbols on the 1 and 5 reels.

We have contacted Rome about this problem and pointed them to our forum and the senior VP of Top Gaming did respond but never addressed the issue of the missing wild symbols and how a player can't possibly win the jackpot.

Now Diablo 13 is unavailable in fun mode but Douguie's Delights can be played.
On the paytable it does not mention that Wilds are restricted to reels 2,3 and 4 but this is clearly the case as their is no payout listed for 5 wild symbols. (see screenshots)
Now I do not know if this has been changed since the complaint or if the OP involved with the quote above was mistaken about this slot being,
A) A Jackpot slot
B) Having 5 Wild symbols

This needs further clarification.
Unfortunately the slot which I know is for a fact a Jackpot slot Diablo 13 I can't access to get more information.
Perhaps jas5287 can reinstall the software or someone else with a real play account can get screenshots of the paytable for us?

Old Attachment (Invalid)
Old Attachment (Invalid)

here ya go hope they come out all right

Cindy

Middle symbol top picture says
Wild symbol substitutes for all symbols except scatter an bonus
5 wild symbols with a combination of all lines an max bets wins jackpot


the second screen shot is the bonus round it says pick a door an we will see what Luck has in place for you

the game is so dark it is very hard to read on the screenie
max bet is $5 per line so if all lines are selected 13 xs 5 = 65 bucks

 

[jas2587]

boy that is lousy I will see if my Jessica can do better

Cindy

 

[Rusty]

boy that is lousy I will see if my Jessica can do better

Cindy

Can you make them bigger Cindy?
Especially the paytable.
It looks as though there is no prizes listed for Wilds at all?

What would 5 Wilds pay if not the Jackpot?
I assume the same as the top paying symbol but it could just as easily be Zero according that paytable.
One important thing though is that we know this game does gave 5 Wild symbols so the missing wilds on reel 1 and 5 is still a very big issue to put it mildly.

max bet is $5 per line so if all lines are selected 13 xs 5 = 65 bucks

So much worse even than the $45 we were previously told it was.
There are so many issues here I think my head is about to explode.

 

[jas2587]

my daughter is telling me to hang on so like 5 minutes

Cindy