Resolved King Solomons: loss after loss!

[praytech]

Okay, here are the stats that KS sent through. The first lot read like this:

Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 00:13:59 - Wagered $304.30 and payouts of $254.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.47%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 03:05:23 - Wagered $2,781.75 and payouts of $2,329.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.72%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 07:45:36 - Wagered $540.04 and payouts of $311.00 and your Payout ratio: 57.59%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 08:41:10 - Wagered $1,729.52 and payouts of $1,170.75 and your Payout ratio: 67.70%

Then there are others they attached to the email in the form of a spreadsheet. I looked at the spreadsheet, did some VERY simple sums (ie.. total bet divided by the total games played) and noticed a significant anomaly that I think should be clear to anyone (the total games x set bets per spin do not add up correctly)

Game # games Total bets Total wins Payout %
Forest of Wonder 5599 31,497.25 26,851.18 85.20%
Keno 4958 6,728.25 4,482.25 66.60%
Diamond Valley $1 4252 20,681.10 20,811.00 100.60%
Bonus Bears 3454 27,639.00 22,124.85 80.00%
Wallstreet 5Reel 10c2865 1,196.42 1,180.40 98.70%
What's Cooking 1569 5,626.80 5,091.00 90.50%
Queen of Pyramids 1421 3,062.81 3,788.25 123.70%
Fruit Mania 25c 1416 1,718.39 1,972.00 114.80%
Alien Hunter 1177 10,808.50 13,213.70 122.30%
Thrill Seekers 942 10,977.50 10,776.65 98.20%
Football Rules 812 7,951.25 8,359.50 105.10%
Queen of Pyramids 15c 767 980.99 1,187.55 121.10%
Lotto Madness 533 5,590.00 4,133.75 73.90%
A Night Out 512 8,926.00 8,104.00 90.80%
Standard Fivereel 402 367.17 246.3 67.10%
Golden Tour 379 7,570.00 7,882.00 104.10%
Beach Life 114 1,076.70 1,013.00 94.10%
Ultimate Fighters 105 624 541.5 86.80%

I play a lot more games than this! Anyway, the point remains. The figures do not add up, just more proof that these figures are completely fictitious. So I emailed them stating:

Diamond Valley is a set bet of $5 per spin. You recorded $20,681.10 as total bet, yet at $5 per spin, the total for that bet amount would be 4,136 spins, not the 4,252 you have in the spreadsheet.

Fruitmania is a set bet of $1.25 per spin. You recorded $1,718.39 as total bet, yet at $1.25 per spin, the total for that amount would be 1,374 spins.

Beach Life is a set bet of $10 per spin. You recorded $1076.7 and 114 spins. The total should be 107 spins.

Wall Street is a set 50c per spin. You recorded $1196 and 2865 spins. The total should be 2392 spins.

Their own statistics show now that they are engaged in at the very LEAST, poor accounting. At the very most, deceptive conduct.

[praytech]

It should be noted that at no stage, in my entire history of gambling, have I EVER played anything except the maximum number of lines in ANY game, with the sole exception of a 5-reel King Solomon Slot Game that I use to zero my balance (at either 5c,4c,3c, 2c or 1c per spin for enough spins to zero the balance (usually 1 or 2 spins).

[praytech]

Okay, it has been explained to me by the pit boss that the discrepancy between the total bet and the number of games is, in fact, the free spins OR bonus round features. He has since provided me with evidence of this, as well as screenshots showing the payout ratio.

I have to keep my payout details confidential, but it appears I was mistaken. My return to player is not quite 97%, but as someone put it already, thats called gambling.

I withdraw my complaint, and thank everyone for their input and apologise for wasting everyone's time.

[zuga]

so much fuss for nothing

[Wagerjunction]

Praytech you are engaging in very poor conduct at the moment and i am going to advise you to desist in making slanderous comments on a public forum

The stats that you showed were for your last 4 sessions at the Casino something that you conveniently forgot to point out

Your overall ratio as per the email and i quote

Justin, I received your complaint regarding the odds, and also what you have been informed by the support desk regarding the payout ratio being 97%.

Firstly, as to the 97% you were informed about, please note this is our casino average payout ratio, and player's payout ratios can sometimes differ from this, but overall will be roughly the same as the global payout ratio.

I would like to take this opportunity to give you some more information on your recent game play and also payout ratios.

I went through your last 4 sessions on the casino which ran from 2008-06-03 00:13:59 to 2008-06-03 10:21:00. During these 4 sessions you wagered the following amounts per session:

Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 00:13:59 - Wagered $304.30 and payouts of $254.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.47%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 03:05:23 - Wagered $2,781.75 and payouts of $2,329.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.72%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 07:45:36 - Wagered $540.04 and payouts of $311.00 and your Payout ratio: 57.59%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 08:41:10 - Wagered $1,729.52 and payouts of $1,170.75 and your Payout ratio: 67.70%

As we can see from the above the odds were against you and I agree fully with you that these session it does seem that the odds were against you.

I then had a look at your total account gameplay, and the figures for this:
Total Wagers: $154,645.30
Total Wins: $142,502.78
Overall Payout Ratio: 92.2%

I have also attached a excel sheet indicating all games you have played with us, showing their respective totals and payout ratios. I have only included games where you wagered more than 100 games. Overall you will notice that your payout ratio is not bad at all.

I would like to let you know that I have also added a $300 bonus to your account as a small token of our appreciation of your loyalty.

It should be quite clear to you but perhaps your intention is merely to slag us off . Now i will get the guys to get you all of the game play - i am not sure why they did not do it the first time around but i am steaming now re this so they will do what i want .

You are merely using portions of the email that suit your argument and omitting the rest .

[Wagerjunction]

Apologies - Praytech you must have been posting while i was posting on the matter and i did not speak to my CRM guys re this before posting.

Zuga I dont think its a waste of time - i think it is necessary for all Casinos to be as transparent as possible and where there are areas of doubt and unceretainty this forum allows people to ask questions that can be answered

By the way Bryan - congratulations on your 10th Anniversary -

Saying that - i want to advise all that there will be a new person taking over my responsibilities on this board as from today .

I will be back on the board in my personal capacity but this partricular complaint has highlighted the fact that it should not be myself dealing with players but rather people who are dedicated to Player Support within the orginization .

Have a great day guys and speak to you all soon

Regards
Greg

[zuga]

Originally Posted by GrandAcesGeisha

Zuga I dont think its a waste of time - i think it is necessary for all Casinos to be as transparent as possible and where there are areas of doubt and unceretainty this forum allows people to ask questions that can be answered

i never thought of this as waste of time...anyway glad to see this matter resolved.

[juuso]

King Solomon's was nice to send me a letter with free 30€ bonus to celebrate their 10th birthday last week. Played a bit, met 25x wagering requirements and won max. 100€. Cash out required a 50€ deposit and playing it 2X in any game. Black Jack was allowed. Decent offer. Hundred for little work.

Cash out was painless and fast.

I like Playtech as my main desktop OS is Linux and their browser version works great on it. Black Jack play speed is spectacular as well.