Resolved King Solomons: loss after loss!

[praytech]

Originally Posted by GrandAcesGeisha

I really think that whenever somebody has a loosing streak online and then goes to a forum to complain there really is no winner at all. The Casino invariably tries to defend itself and the player and other players jump all over the Casino for various things.

Praytech with regards to your posts i can understand you feeling sore and do feel sympathy for you in regards to your loss. I must tell you though and i am sure that you do know that spending a lot of money at a Casino is no guarantee of winning anything .

Saying that i will get my CRM team to take a look at your account and the payout percentages .

As for being rigged or a rogue i think that you need to review the matter in a calmer light

King Solomons has been around for 10 years and no rogue Casino would last that long .

Also it is on the same software platform as Casino TRRRRRR - i cant get that out and the software company that it licenses its software from is a PLC and as they actually manage and run the RNG we are not able to influence game play in any way .

I will be very happy to take a look at your game play as stated and if you can PM me your username myself and my CRM team can take an in depth look at the matter.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards
Greg

Absolutely... I make my biggest point based on the total wagered... it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that if I spend $x, and wager $y dollars, at an average of $z per spin, the payout ratio can be determined by that end result.

If you look at what I have wagered for the same deposit amounts, King Solomons is WAAAAY behind the others! it's not just a minor discrepancy, it's actually quite significant. $8k + $5k in bonuses = $13,000 and couple that with the total wagered of only $180k, one can see straight away that the total amount wagered should have been significantly higher.... the amount wagered is directly proportional to the amounts won. If for example I was winning, then I would be able to wager a lot more than I did. The sheer fact that the wagered amount was much lower than it should have been indicates that either a) the total wagered is inaccurate or b) the total wagered is accurate, therefore the payout ratio cannot be accurate.

Besides, all of that is moot, as I was already informed by chat staff that the payout percentage was lower. Then Lyndon suggests that it is set at 97%, therefore if it was 97% firm, then $13,000 divided by the return to player (which means the casino only takes 3%) should mean that the total amount wagered would be $433,333 on $13,000 spent.

As I have said previously, you produce the exact payout ratio as evidence, and we can discuss it, but until you do, my deposits, low wagered amount, no wins, and overall bad experience remains relevant.

I will supply you my details by pm. I will point out that I had asked for $1,000 of my deposits back because of the poor payout ratio.

[praytech]

Originally Posted by SlotsWizard

Except for this part, that was a great post.

how was it a great post? all they did was justify their existence (Wagerjunction being King Solomons) and claim it's just because I lost... and that a rogue casino cannot survive for so long!

They didn't even need to ask me to give them my details, as they could have just pm'd me from the get-go!

i will obviously need to post all of my chats in order to prove deceptive conduct, so you can see the clear pattern.

[maxd]

Originally Posted by praytech

.... Lyndon suggests that it is set at 97%, therefore if it was 97% firm, then $13,000 divided by the return to player (which means the casino only takes 3%) should mean that the total amount wagered would be $433,333 on $13,000 spent.

Umm, have you ever heard of 'gambling'. That's where people offer money in a game of chance in the expectation that they might win but there's a non-trivial chance they'll lose too ... as in lose it all ... and in go-brokey and have nothing to show for it, like you.

I failed statistics (the first time) at Uni but even I know that (a) a few grand is no serious test of a game, (b) subsequent bets have nothing to do with previous bets, (c) if a $0 end-sum was any proof of rigged games then there are legions of gamblers past, present and future who are being fleeced at pretty much any and every game you'd care to name.

PT, you must see that your outrage is your only clear thought here. The rest of it is seriously botched.

PS. I find your request for the return of $1000 of your deposits proof that you're not quite with us on the planet Earth. Think how unbelievably unrealistic that is! If they even considered doing that they've have "me too!" requests flooding their inboxes of the next 100 years ... except they wouldn't last that long because they'd go broke long before that. In a nutshell, you're dreamin' in technicolor!

[praytech]

Originally Posted by maxd

Umm, have you ever heard of 'gambling'. That's where people offer money in a game of chance in the expectation that they might win but there's a non-trivial chance they'll lose too ... as in lose it all ... and in go-brokey and have nothing to show for it, like you.

I failed statistics (the first time) at Uni but even I know that (a) a few grand is no serious test of a game, (b) subsequent bets have nothing to do with previous bets, (c) if a $0 end-sum was any proof of rigged games then there are legions of gamblers past, present and future who are being fleeced at pretty much any and every game you'd care to name.

PT, you must see that your outrage is your only clear thought here. The rest of it is seriously botched.

PS. I find your request for the return of $1000 of your deposits proof that you're not quite with us on the planet Earth. Think how unbelievably unrealistic that is! If they even considered doing that they've have "me too!" requests flooding their inboxes of the next 100 years ... except they wouldn't last that long because they'd go broke long before that. In a nutshell, you're dreamin' in technicolor!

If you are a moderator, why are you wading into this debate, instead of 'moderating' ? As you say, you failed statistics, so that sort of discounts any input you might have, as I had asked in a previous post for someone who could make sense of the stats.

This post of yours clearly seems to be a personal attack. I thought we weren't going to go down that path?

Anyway, statistically, you are incorrect. The total amount wagered shows the payout ratio. THAT is a fact. Unless you can prove otherwise, why even make the statement you did? And you are wrong. At an average wager of $5 per bet, $13,000 IS a good indicator of the payout percentage! It is naive to think otherwise.

And when did I even say that $0 end sum was proof of a rigged game? I NEVER said that, so I would appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth. I made it clear that I had monitored the results over a period, and I came to a figure of 75% payout, not 97%

Are you seriously telling me that we should just fully trust that casinos tell the truth about their payout ratio?

Are you also telling me that if a player suspects that the games may be rigged, he should just say nothing, and let other players lose thousands of dollars to the same operator?

What is the point of Casinomeister, if not a player advocate? if it doesn't concern itself with allowing players to voice their concerns without shouting them down, then the site simply becomes an advertising medium for the casinos... I'd think that isn't the intention of Casinomeister.

As for the $1k return, I could have just kept that private between me and the casino, but I wanted EVERYTHING to be transparent. i wonder if that works both ways...

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by praytech

...What is the point of Casinomeister, if not a player advocate? if it doesn't concern itself with allowing players to voice their concerns without shouting them down, then the site simply becomes an advertising medium for the casinos... I'd think that isn't the intention of Casinomeister. ...

You may voice your concern, but please follow the posting rules and general posting etiquette. Up until yesterday, you had failed to do so but were corrected. No one is shouting you down.

Max has every right to question your problem, motives, etc., since he manages the complaints here. You need to have a clear understanding on this.

You also need to back off and quit being so aggressive. Thank you.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by praytech

how was it a great post? all they did was justify their existence (Wagerjunction being King Solomons) and claim it's just because I lost... and that a rogue casino cannot survive for so long!

They didn't even need to ask me to give them my details, as they could have just pm'd me from the get-go!

i will obviously need to post all of my chats in order to prove deceptive conduct, so you can see the clear pattern.

Settle praytech. SW was merely pointing to the stupidity of the "we been in business 10 years so we can't be rogue" comment. It was just a nice way of asking the King Solomons rep to stop treating Forum members like frigging idiots. There are RTG Casinos mugging grannies every night of the week that have been around for longer than 10 years.

Your numbers on the King Solomons (I was thinking King Neptunes MG - doh) are as I understand:

wagered $180,00 on variety of Slots

lose $13,000 representing a loss of 7.22% or $7.22 for every $1 wagered.

Assuming you did not avail your self of gamble features (even money no house edge bets) then a -EV 7.22% on Slots does not cause a ripple on my rigged online Casino meter.

I mentioned the weekend MG Slots phenomenon that anecdotally I can attest to as having more than a little substance. But even if the MG Slots were "adjusted" for weekend Slot flunkies then I am still not sure one could label the game as rigged. Casinos are at liberty to adjust Slot returns according to whim especially online.

I know in various countries legislation governs minimum Slot returns but online I am unaware of any such restriction. In the event online Slot returns are not bound by any legislated minimum return I fail to see how they can they can be labeled "rigged" even if they never returned a single $1.

The resident Forum expert in all matters Slots is Vinyl Weatherman Man but I have a feeling he targets MG slots exclusively (and avoids weekends).

He does possess some peculiar knowledge how Slots can be manipulated so follow up with the good fellow as he maybe more obliging than you think.

best of luck going forward.

/

[praytech]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

You may voice your concern, but please follow the posting rules and general posting etiquette. Up until yesterday, you had failed to do so but were corrected. No one is shouting you down.

Max has every right to question your problem, motives, etc., since he manages the complaints here. You need to have a clear understanding on this.

You also need to back off and quit being so aggressive. Thank you.

I disclosed anything that might be interpreted as skewing my motives, hence I mentioned the 1k refund, so that people reading this post were NOT deceived about what was going on... I had presumed this was the right thing to do. I don't think that it helps Casinomeister to go on the attack like Max did, as it just deters other people from having a viewpoint that is clearly contrary to max's. As for disclosure, does Max have any interest in WagerJunction as an affiliate or someone who makes money from their good name? Just so that this thread IS fully transparent, I would really like to know.

Max has already admitted to failing statistics, therefore any statistical input would be useless. He has waded in to this debate, which is about my personal experience with a rogue operator, in a manner that is not helping this situation, but merely having the effect of tarnishing my rep in this regard.

Making statements like 'it's called Gambling' is not constructive, and I think you know that. I am well aware of what gambling is, and spend around $10k per month at my local casino. I am not new to gambling, and i am also not new to online casinos. The fact remains that my dollar went so much less further at King Solomons than any other casino i have played at (more than 10 in total). So much so that it has (and I hope you can appreciate this) spent a LOT of time writing the thread and dealing with this issue. If it wasn't for the fact that I am CONVINCED that KS's ratio is incorrect (either accidentally or intentionally) I would not have bothered taking this so far.

So, as far as personal experience goes, I believe I am in an ideal situation to say that in my experience, King Solomons is the worst casino to play at, and I do not believe their payout ratio is true and correct.

Still no one has proven otherwise, and they probably won't. If players saw King Solomons REAL payout figures, I personally think they would stay away in droves, especially the high stakes players.

But anyway, I digress...

So, someone PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG! SHOW ME the error of my ways! Give me evidence that the payout ratio CAN NOT be rigged!

It is of note that even the vip manager paid me a bonus because my payout ratio was too low.... and it was a substantial bonus. On it's own , that is not overly significant, but look at the whole picture.

[praytech]

Originally Posted by Roar

Settle praytech. SW was merely pointing to the stupidity of the "we been in business 10 years so we can't be rogue" comment. It was just a nice way of asking the King Solomons rep to stop treating Forum members like frigging idiots. There are RTG Casinos mugging grannies every night of the week that have been around for longer than 10 years.

Your numbers on the King Solomons (I was thinking King Neptunes MG - doh) are as I understand:

wagered $180,00 on variety of Slots

lose $13,000 representing a loss of 7.22% or $7.22 for every $1 wagered.

Assuming you did not avail your self of gamble features (even money no house edge bets) then a -EV 7.22% on Slots does not cause a ripple on my rigged online Casino meter.

I mentioned the weekend MG Slots phenomenon that anecdotally I can attest to as having more than a little substance. But even if the MG Slots were "adjusted" for weekend Slot flunkies then I am still not sure one could label the game as rigged. Casinos are at liberty to adjust Slot returns according to whim especially online.

I know in various countries legislation governs minimum Slot returns but online I am unaware of any such restriction. In the event online Slot returns are not bound by any legislated minimum return I fail to see how they can they can be labeled "rigged" even if they never returned a single $1.

The resident Forum expert in all matters Slots is Vinyl Weatherman Man but I have a feeling he targets MG slots exclusively (and avoids weekends).

He does possess some peculiar knowledge how Slots can be manipulated so follow up with the good fellow as he maybe more obliging than you think.

best of luck going forward.

/

Thanks for that. However, I am not sure how you calculated the EV.... that still seems off to me. That's the problem with slots I guess... it's a really complex science. I can only see that when I was at Tropez and other casinos, I was able to wager a LOT more (like, 10 times the amount) than at KS... it's sort of like saying ' I lost ten times quicker at KS than I have at any other online casino'

Actually, maybe I should simply be stating that, as it is a fact. The payout ratio is confusing for most people but that fact speaks for itself... okay...

FACT: I HAVE LOST TEN TIMES FASTER AT KING SOLOMONS THAN AT ANY OTHER CASINO I HAVE PLAYED AT ONLINE (AND THIS IS A LIST OF MORE THAN 10 DIFFERENT CASINOS).

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by praytech

...I don't think that it helps Casinomeister to go on the attack like Max did, as it just deters other people from having a viewpoint that is clearly contrary to max's. As for disclosure, does Max have any interest in WagerJunction as an affiliate or someone who makes money from their good name? Just so that this thread IS fully transparent, I would really like to know..

I'm not going on the attack - never did. But you have failed to abide by the the posting rules (which you agreed to upon signing up). You need to count to ten, and take a few minutes to read them again. Specifically Section 2 - Posting Complaints.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/forum_rules.php

You have been corrected a number of times both in private and in public. If you cannot participate in this forum responsibly, then your account will be suspended.

That is the final warning.

Max has no interest in Wagerjunction - he has an interest to do the job he gets paid for which is to moderate the complaints section in this forum.

[Wagerjunction]

It was just a nice way of asking the King Solomons rep to stop treating Forum members like frigging idiots

Roar i think that you are overstepping the mark here a little bit and making assumptions that are wildly off the mark . I have been a member of this forum for a long time and have never treated anyone like an idiot what i was doing was trying to tell Praytech that if we were rogue we would not now be in business .

There are RTG Casinos mugging grannies every night of the week that have been around for longer than 10 years.

Again can you tell me how many of these RTGs are on the accredited list here - the King Solomons RTG Casino is and i was i think the second or third RTG on Casinomeister and am very proud of that fact .

Also Praytech is playing on the Playtech version of the Casino

Whilst we are here to help players and i do my level best this is called gambling and sometimes you do have streaks both ways - a month ago we had a player win every single jackpot there was to be won and took away over €350k from a €150 purchase .

We cant tell him - well something has to be wrong - the percentages are way out here - so now we wont pay you . We are obliged to pay him as he has GAMBLED and won

One more thing that perhaps did not come out so well in my original post

There is no possible way to manipulate these games on either our part or the software providers part

With regards for the request for $1k back i can tell you that we do not entertain requests like that - what we will do is look at the payout ratio and will will be speaking to Praytech re the issue .