888 / Reef Club Casino. Accredited or not ?

[rainmaker]

888 Holdings do have a couple of casinos in the baptism by fire- section (pending accredited casinos). They have been listed since at the end of November 2010. I guess their soon will be promoted to the accredited list or...you know...be dumped.

My personal opinion is that it would be crazy to include a 888 Holdings/ Cassava Enterprises casino in the accredited list.

I know several people who has used their casinos and it's almost funny how much they dislike them now. I even has an old account at 888.com. Once a week or something they sends me a mail like "hurry!! final chance to claim your first time bonus!"

This is from the mail I got from they yesterday:

Hurry, grab your Xtra bonus today

Download Casino-on-Net today, deposit as little as 10 EUR, type the code XXXXXXX in the cashier to grab:

Your Welcome Bonus
up to 500 EUR + FREE 20 EUR
Bonus

Remember, winners never stop spinning!

Regards,

888.com


And did I mention that I actually did claim a "first-deposit" bonus several years a go? I have even contacted the CS to tell them that I already has been given this bonus. Do they care? No. They still sends me crap like this all the time. The problem is of course that they are offering me a bonus that will cause me to break T&C if I accept.

Anyway. I just wanted to know what you think. Should Reef Club Casino / 888.com be promoted to the accredited list, or be dumped ?

Oh, and I need to add that the rep at this forum (Rachel) seems very skilled and friendly. That is the only positive thing I can say about this case.

 

[maxd]

Couple suggestions:

• you might want to word the thread title as a question so people know you're looking for input. Something like "should 888 be Accredited?" or the like.
• better yet, add a poll asking exactly that. Polls are easy for people to do -- just takes a second or so -- so people are quite likely to contribute.

Just sayin'.

PS. if it's too late for you to edit the thread to add these any Mod can do the first one for you, might need to ask Bryan to add the poll since I can't seem to find a Moderator option to do it.

 

[rainmaker]

Thank you for the tips Mister Max Too late for me to do changes, but please add a poll if possible.



(By the way, sorry for a bit bad language / spelling in the text. Did not have time to correct it.)

 

[Nifty29]

I agree with you rainmaker.

There are too many questions raised about 888/Cassava and not nearly enough answers. E.G. what exactly is the relationship between white labels and the software provider? Cassava say 'we only provide software', yet players are having their winnings confiscated for having an account at more than one Cassava-connected casino including WLs. Looks like far more than a 'software provider only' relationship.

If they are REALLY keen to clean up their act they have a strange way of showing it IMO.

The fact that there is so much confusion amongst players about what I mentioned above is enough to deny accreditation IMO....but that ain't my call.

 

[rainmaker]

I am most familiar with Net Entertainment and Playtech casinos/companies, so please correct me if I am wrong here.

But as I understand it, 888 Holdings do own Random Logic Limited. Random Logic was founded to provide software to 888. 888 Holdings also owns Cassava Enterprises who operates sites like 888.com, Reef Club Casino and others.

As you mentioned Nifty, I know there has been some cases where players has been refused winnings because they have been accepting bonuses from different sites within the 888 Holding group. As I see it, it is almost impossible for an average player to understand the structure of this company.

In my opinion, it will damage the good reputation of the accredited section if a casino like 888.com is promoted to join Centrebet, 32Red and other reputable casinos on the list. I just can not see it happens.

You would never see a casino like 3Dice sending promotion mails like "hurry!! last chance to get your bonus!"...not only one time, but several weeks in a row. I have seen that they sometimes blame affiliates for "spamming" without the 888-permission. That is BH in my opinion. And as I have said before, what's up with all the 888 advertisements on porn sites. I can not even surf on porn without being bothered by a pop- up ad from 888

 

[jod5413]

And as I have said before, what's up with all the 888 advertisements on porn sites. I can not even surf on porn without being bothered by a pop- up ad from 888

Thats a great place to advertise. Both porn and gambling are considered vices. Great marketing technique.

 

[Nifty29]

Thats a great place to advertise. Both porn and gambling are considered vices. Great marketing technique.

Yep.

After all, you only need one free hand to click 'spin'.

 

[maxd]

Too late for me to do changes, but please add a poll if possible.

I've done the "Report Post" thing (see below) so Bryan will know that you'd like the poll added.

No worries about the imperfect English, you should hear my feeble attempts at French. Attach Removed (Old not found)

Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[KasinoKing]

Anyway. I just wanted to know what you think. Should Reef Club Casino / 888.com be promoted to the accredited list, or be dumped ?

My personal opinion? They should be dumped.
I'm with you; always been too many dodgy goings on with this group - and there still are. If they would totally "clean up their act" and keep it clean for say 6-months, then yes, accredit them.

KK

 

[maxd]

If they would totally "clean up their act" and keep it clean ....

Just out of curiosity, and I'm being wholly sincere here, what would that entail? What would "clean" be? How would we know it if we saw it?

 

[KasinoKing]

Just out of curiosity, and I'm being wholly sincere here, what would that entail? What would "clean" be? How would we know it if we saw it?

Those are not simple questions to answer.
I did stress "in my personal opinion" in my first post. I totally do not trust this group after what happened on my affiliate account with them about a year back. Basically I had strong reason to suspect they were ripping me off. Impossible to prove of course, but it kinda leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Then there was the appalling launch of Lucky Ace, when 888 gave a group of new affiliate managers the e-mails of all their partners (without our permission) and made it into a competition to see who could get the most sign-ups...!
That's not to mention the other issues with that launch: Old / Expired Link

That aside, from the player perspective they need to:
Stop the spamming (as mentioned above).
Stop the cross-promoting of other casinos in the group encouraging people to break the "one bonus across the group" rule.
Make sure any new players signing up to one of their group of casinos is fully aware of the above rule BEFORE they even start their sign-up, let alone deposit.

KK

 

[maxd]

... from the player perspective they need to:

• Stop the spamming (as mentioned above).
• Stop the cross-promoting of other casinos in the group encouraging people to break the "one bonus across the group" rule.
• Make sure any new players signing up to one of their group of casinos is fully aware of the above rule BEFORE they even start their sign-up, let alone deposit.

Sounds like a good start. I'd add full disclosure of the "white label" issue which would include a reasonable explanation of how they have "no connection" to some of the WLs when it comes to dealing with player issues yet all CS is apparently handled through a centralized Cassava service center, not to mention fraud detection, cross-marketing, etc.

To me this sounds suspiciously like they have everything to do with the WLs when it comes to things they want to do -- spam, fraud detection, bonus restrictions, etc -- and nothing to do with the same WLs when it comes to things they don't want to do, namely dealing responsibly with player issues and being held accountable for their activities. Things like that make it look a lot like a Rival or Topgame situation, IMO.

 

[rainmaker]

I did notice a funny paragraph in their (888 group) "user agreement" :


You hereby agree that in the event of your winning a jackpot of $20,000 or more (or the equivalent in any other currency) in relation to the casino slots games, video slots, video poker or any other jackpot game or machine you will grant to the Company an irrevocable, exclusive and perpetual worldwide right and license, to use your name, photograph and likeness in any media, in connection with the marketing and promotion of the Company and the Site and you will fully cooperate with the Company's representatives in such regard.

Photographs and full name. Well...


The big problem for many players will be these two paragraphs below. As I said before, their messy structure is almost impossible to understand for an average player. (These two paragraphs are listed in two separate places in the "user agreement"). Cassava will in my opinion lead the player to break T&C by offering bonuses to the same player at different casinos (when it is prohibited to accept) .


All users of the Services shall be entitled only to one welcome bonus. Members who make their first deposit with the Company or any of its white label partners and who have or previously had an account with any of the Sites owned or operated by the Company, including both In-House Brands and White Label Brands, shall not be entitled to an additional welcome bonus, unless the Company decides otherwise at its absolute discretion.
.........................

Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Limited (the "Company" or "we") is incorporated under the laws of Gibraltar and is part of the 888.com group of companies. The Company is licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar under the relevant laws of the Gaming Ordinance of Gibraltar for the purposes of operating and offering Internet gambling services including, but not limited to, casino, poker, sports betting and bingo services.
The Company offers gambling services via its in-house brands such as i) 888, (ii) Casino-on-Net, (iii) Pacific Poker, (iv) 888sport, (v) 888ladies, (vi) 888games, (vii) 888casino, (viii) 888poker, (ix) 888pachinko and (x) Reef Club Casino (each an "In-House Brand") and via third parties' brands as part of so called "white labels" such as (i) RileysPoker, (ii) Tower Torneos, (iii) LuckyAce, (iv) Littlewoods, (v) Racing Post and (vi) Harrah's (each a "White Label Brand"). In addition to offering its gambling services via the Internet (the "Internet Platform"), the Company may from time to time offer its services via alternative platforms such as (i) interactive television, (ii) mobile gambling platforms and (iii) in-flight entertainment platforms (each, an "Alternative Platform").
When you use the Company's gambling services either via an In-House Brand or a White Label Brand, and whether such use is via the Internet Platform or an Alternative Platform, this End-User License Agreement (the "Agreement") shall apply to such use to such extent as is applicable to the circumstances

Notice that they use the expression "such as" (The Company offers gambling services via its in-house brands such as...). This may not even be a "full" list!

 

[The Dude]

Poll posted.

To be fair, 888 has gotten back to me on the issue of cross marketing (Nannyjilly's issue). They DO NOT cross market with SpinWin, Littlewoods and WSOP. They player has been unable to provide the 888 rep a copy of these emails. It also turned out the player signed up at WSOP first, not 888.com.

 

[rainmaker]

Thanks for the posted poll Meister

I voted "no". The chief executive there has an annual salary of ~two million dollars. I see no reason why more players need to contribute to it

 

[Rachel888]

Hey Guys!

Been awhile since I have posted, been checking the forum daily but just haven't had much to write about. Wanted to see where things are going.

I understand there are still a lot of old grudges towards 888, and I would just like to make things clear for all of you as this is very important to 888 and to me.

Yes Cassava has a few white labels, the white labels are 848, WSOP, Littlewoods, Spin Win, and Lucky Ace. I am the rep for all 888 brands (888casino, 888poker, 888sport, 888ladies, 888bingo, 888play and 888games), Reef Club Casino and newly revamped and relaunched Casino On Net.

I along with all of 888 have been working very hard to make sure that all issues with the 888 and Reef Club coming through the forum have been dealt with, which most of them have been. I have even stuck my nose into the white labels business to get them moving as well, but again there is only so much that I can do as they are not run or handled by the same company as 888 is.

We DO NOT cross market amongst the white labels, this is a big no no for us so any claims about this are false.

Over the years there have been many changes done at 888, and I can not stress this enough.

I'm not here to plea any case for accreditation, but I am just asking that you do not take the white labels as a direct reflection of 888casino.

I am always around to answer questions and try and clear any confusion.

Regards,
Rachel

 

[vinylweatherman]

I did notice a funny paragraph in their (888 group) "user agreement" :


You hereby agree that in the event of your winning a jackpot of $20,000 or more (or the equivalent in any other currency) in relation to the casino slots games, video slots, video poker or any other jackpot game or machine you will grant to the Company an irrevocable, exclusive and perpetual worldwide right and license, to use your name, photograph and likeness in any media, in connection with the marketing and promotion of the Company and the Site and you will fully cooperate with the Company's representatives in such regard.

Photographs and full name. Well...


The big problem for many players will be these two paragraphs below. As I said before, their messy structure is almost impossible to understand for an average player. (These two paragraphs are listed in two separate places in the "user agreement"). Cassava will in my opinion lead the player to break T&C by offering bonuses to the same player at different casinos (when it is prohibited to accept) .


All users of the Services shall be entitled only to one welcome bonus. Members who make their first deposit with the Company or any of its white label partners and who have or previously had an account with any of the Sites owned or operated by the Company, including both In-House Brands and White Label Brands, shall not be entitled to an additional welcome bonus, unless the Company decides otherwise at its absolute discretion.
.........................

Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Limited (the "Company" or "we") is incorporated under the laws of Gibraltar and is part of the 888.com group of companies. The Company is licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar under the relevant laws of the Gaming Ordinance of Gibraltar for the purposes of operating and offering Internet gambling services including, but not limited to, casino, poker, sports betting and bingo services.
The Company offers gambling services via its in-house brands such as i) 888, (ii) Casino-on-Net, (iii) Pacific Poker, (iv) 888sport, (v) 888ladies, (vi) 888games, (vii) 888casino, (viii) 888poker, (ix) 888pachinko and (x) Reef Club Casino (each an "In-House Brand") and via third parties' brands as part of so called "white labels" such as (i) RileysPoker, (ii) Tower Torneos, (iii) LuckyAce, (iv) Littlewoods, (v) Racing Post and (vi) Harrah's (each a "White Label Brand"). In addition to offering its gambling services via the Internet (the "Internet Platform"), the Company may from time to time offer its services via alternative platforms such as (i) interactive television, (ii) mobile gambling platforms and (iii) in-flight entertainment platforms (each, an "Alternative Platform").
When you use the Company's gambling services either via an In-House Brand or a White Label Brand, and whether such use is via the Internet Platform or an Alternative Platform, this End-User License Agreement (the "Agreement") shall apply to such use to such extent as is applicable to the circumstances

Notice that they use the expression "such as" (The Company offers gambling services via its in-house brands such as...). This may not even be a "full" list!

So, why was there EVER a need to cross-market ANY of the brands to a player already registered at one.
Given that this cross-marketing HAS been going on, it is surely reasonable to assume that where 888 holdings has sent a player an offer for another brand BASED ON the information given during registration for the first, and that the ONLY circumstance where the taking of this offer would be allowed is ".......unless the Company decides otherwise at its absolute discretion.", that the MERE FACT that the offer was sent means that the company HAS used it's absolute discretion to allow said player to sign up at a SECOND (or subsequent) casino powered by Cassava software.

Poll posted.

To be fair, 888 has gotten back to me on the issue of cross marketing (Nannyjilly's issue). They DO NOT cross market with SpinWin, Littlewoods and WSOP. They player has been unable to provide the 888 rep a copy of these emails. It also turned out the player signed up at WSOP first, not 888.com.

Given the bonus policy, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for WSOP to have used this players details to market any of the other Cassava brands, either white label or in house. This is NOT a legitimate use of the player's personal information, and the ONLY possible outcome for a player who actually takes up this offer is confiscation of winnings due to breach of the terms.

NONE of the "spam" sent by Cassava has ANY POINT WHATSOEVER that can be considered "legitimate".

Given that Cassava DO have a central database, and must surely be aware of their own policy, and how difficult given their trading structure it is to identify which of the numerous brands count for particular exclusions in the terms, they should be using this wealth of centralised data to steer players clear of most of these pitfalls, by at the very least operating a simple matching check upon registration to determine whether new accounts are eligible for their "once across the brand" bonus.

It seems from the complaints that CS grant the bonus, sometimes even FORCING the bonus on a player either by crediting it automatically, or constantly bothering them during play, and by email, until they say" yes" to it. Only when the player WINS does it suddenly become a problem, and then the player finds out that it is ONLY a problem at the brand where they WON, and that where they LOST it was OK, so they don't get THOSE deposits back.

The problem with accrediting ONLY the in-house brands is that they ARE closely tied to the white labels, and what Cassava are saying about the depth of this connection is NOT bourne out by the evidence.

Microgaming provides the software to many casinos, and so do Playtech, but NEITHER hold player details, dictate bonus eligibilty policy, etc, for the operators. Cassava, by saying "we just provide the software" are trying to make us believe that they have the same "hands off" policy as the former, yet this is quite clearly not the case.

 

[rainmaker]

My opinion is that this is not only about "cross marketing".

It is also about 888 Holdings actually expects that players have knowledge, and do understand how their entire company is organized. With a reference to my previous post (T&C), how can a complex organization like 888 Holding really expect that kind of a understanding by an average player. I bet that even CS at some 888 casinos also would have had problems to answer questions about this company.

One player might join 888.com, receive and accept a bonus. If the same player later joins another casino in the messy 888 Holding system, then the player may be denied winnings if he/she has accepted first time bonuse a second time. Yes, I know that this might be normal in some groups. But my point is that the whole 888 system is only a big mess compared to other groups. Serious groups would not have designed ​​such a "trap"for their players anyway. For example Betsson. Players may claim first time bonus at both Betsson and CasinoEuro, even though CasinoEuro is operated by Betsson.

I see that the rep from 888 writes: "do not take the white labels as a direct reflection of 888casino."

I do not agree with that. The T&C does clearly state that "the company" is both in-house brands and white label brands. Yeah, 888 might say "but they are different casinos who are operating separately". That might be the case, but as soon as a player has accepted bonuses in two different casinos, then 888 will say something else.

 

[jetset]

For starters I think a firm management commitment to respond to PABs, and wider than that the availability of a genuine player dispute channel that actually works within a reasonable time.

Regarding a probationary period, Casinomeister is widely known as a fair dispute resolver, and in any case this is a CM accreditation we're talking, so it would have to be a trouble-free record here imo.

 

[rainmaker]

Okai, take a look at this.

I picked out a Cassava Enterprises casino (from the list in 888.com T&C) named Littlewoods and contacted the CS. Littlewoods, 888.com and others are a part of Cassava Enterprise, or "the company" (ref T&C).

T&C for Cassavar Enterprises casinos says this about bonuses :

All users of the Services shall be entitled only to one welcome bonus. Members who make their first deposit with the Company or any of its white label partners and who have or previously had an account with any of the Sites owned or operated by the Company, including both In-House Brands and White Label Brands, shall not be entitled to an additional welcome bonus, unless the Company decides otherwise at its absolute discretion.


Littlewoods are a White Label Brand.

I did send a general request to Littlewoods Casino (e-mail). I told them that I was a customer at 888.com. I further told them that I have received a first time bonus at 888.com and was wondering if this would mean that I could not receive a first time bonus at Littlewoods. I immediately received an automatically e-mail response saying that it would take up to 48hours for a reply.

Well...It took them 120 hours to reply (5 days!!). This is the answer I got from CS:



My name is XXXX a member support representative here to assist you today.

We are pleased know that you are interested in registering an account here with us at littlewoodsgameon.

I am pleased to inform you that you can create an account with us even if you had an account with 888casino. Littilewoodsgameon and 888 are not affiliated so creating an account with us would not affect you in any way if you had an old account before.

As a new member you are eligible for the welcome bonus of 100% up to $100 where We’ll give you a 50% bonus up to 50 GBP as soon as you make your first deposit. and another 50% bonus will be waiting for you…Once you reach a certain number of comp points by playing at Littlewoods Casino, the remaining 50% is yours!


The problem is , that the reply from CS violates the T&C! I can not receive first time bonus from both 888.com and Littlewoods.

And whats up with the "not affiliated" ?

This is totally unacceptable.

 

[Nifty29]

Okai, take a look at this.

I picked out a Cassava Enterprises casino (from the list in 888.com T&C) named Littlewoods and contacted the CS. Littlewoods, 888.com and others are a part of Cassava Enterprise, or "the company" (ref T&C).

T&C for Cassavar Enterprises casinos says this about bonuses :

All users of the Services shall be entitled only to one welcome bonus. Members who make their first deposit with the Company or any of its white label partners and who have or previously had an account with any of the Sites owned or operated by the Company, including both In-House Brands and White Label Brands, shall not be entitled to an additional welcome bonus, unless the Company decides otherwise at its absolute discretion.


Littlewoods are a White Label Brand.

I did send a general request to Littlewoods Casino (e-mail). I told them that I was a customer at 888.com. I further told them that I have received a first time bonus at 888.com and was wondering if this would mean that I could not receive a first time bonus at Littlewoods. I immediately received an automatically e-mail response saying that it would take up to 48hours for a reply.

Well...It took them 120 hours to reply (5 days!!). This is the answer I got from CS:



My name is XXXX a member support representative here to assist you today.

We are pleased know that you are interested in registering an account here with us at littlewoodsgameon.

I am pleased to inform you that you can create an account with us even if you had an account with 888casino. Littilewoodsgameon and 888 are not affiliated so creating an account with us would not affect you in any way if you had an old account before.

As a new member you are eligible for the welcome bonus of 100% up to $100 where We’ll give you a 50% bonus up to 50 GBP as soon as you make your first deposit. and another 50% bonus will be waiting for you…Once you reach a certain number of comp points by playing at Littlewoods Casino, the remaining 50% is yours!


The problem is , that the reply from CS violates the T&C! I can not receive first time bonus from both 888.com and Littlewoods.

And whats up with the "not affiliated" ?

This is totally unacceptable.

Yet another example of the cloudy connections between 888 and cassava and god knows who else.

What do we think the chances are that, if rainmaker deposited with the bonus, and won something nice, his winnings would have been confiscated due to a breach of terms?

The fact that that CS took FIVE DAYS to reply is absolutely INSULTING, and the fact that they quote 48 hrs for a reply is even more so.

 

[rainmaker]

I agree Nifty. They even write " Please bear in mind though, that during peak times it may take up to 48 hours to reply."

Funny thing. I noticed that CassavaDan is a new rep for Littlewoods. He has "gone missing" (ref Maxd).

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/hello.43097/

It would be interesting to know:

1. Why did CS tell me to violate T&C?

2. Why did it take 120 hours to reply. Is this normal response time?

3. Why did the CS tell me that they are not affiliated with 888 when T&C says something else?

Hope that the rep from Littlewoods or 888 will give me an explanation.

 

[hussainyes]

hi every one

well if u r talking about littlewoods there one and only trusted company when it come to gambling people from unted kingdom know very will lots people won the football pool didnt check if they won but littlewoods send the out there winning out thats littlewoods members from uk will tell u that thanks

 

[baldidiot]

2. Why did it take 120 hours to reply. Is this normal response time?

I think so. I've emailed them a couple of times recently whilst doing research on the brands (I'm an aff) and they take forever to reply. Or at least it seems that way.

IMHO opinion littlewoods were way better when they were with crypto. Also their VIP offers went from a £250/month bonus and some nice hospitality thumbsup to things like "wager £4 million and you could be in with a chance of winning £50"

 

[Piratas]

My bad experience with 888

From: (Operations Department - Cassava Enterprises) <[email protected]>
Subject: Your Recent Bonus

Date: Wednesday, March 2011, 5:35 PM

Dear xxxxxxx,

This is Timothy I. from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.

Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for 888casino.
I am contacting you in regards to your 888casino account with username "xxxxxxxxxx".

You have made a recent cashout request from your account, and we hope to be able to process this immediately. However this cashout request does include an amount of the bonus we have previously issued to you. Each bonus we issue has an allocated amount to wager attached, and unfortunately you still need to complete with the necessary wagering in order cashout this bonus amount.

As we would like you to have your cashout as soon as possible, we ask you to cancel this cashout and continue to play the bonus according to our bonus policy wagering requirement. In order to cashout the bonus you still need to wager (bet) a further 870 GBP. Alternatively we will return the cashout to the bankroll after the regular awaiting cashout period.
---------------------------------
Discussion Thread
Response 2011 03.33 PM
Dear xxxxxxx,
This is Yuderkis M. from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for 888casino.
I am contacting you in regards to your 888casino account with username "xxxxxxxxx".

Thank you for your email and your enquiry into the matter. I'm afraid my colleague was referring to the bonuses that were credited to your account on the 2011. At the time you requested your cash-out you had not wagered the bonus the required number of times.

Therefore, in order to cashout the bonus we kindly ask that you continue to play the bonus according to our bonus policy wagering requirement. Please note you still need to wager (bet) a further 861GBP.

If you have any questions or require any other assistance, please contact us.

Kind regards,
Yuderkis M
Operations Department
Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.
[email protected]

Customer 2011 07.43 PM
Can You please reacount my bonus wagering, becose I'm wager over 1300 GBP then stop counting it.

So yours Terms and Conditions writing (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

):

"The Welcome Bonus may be cashed out only after wagering an amount of 30 times the bonus"

Ok let's count:

30x20 = 600GBP

In my yestarday history bet over 1300 GBP. Where the problem?
-------------------------------------------------

In 5 days 5 different answers from 5 differents people. There the couples of them.. For me it's worst of all casinos..

 

[rainmaker]

Maybe the rep from 888 will take a look at your account Piratas. As I have said before, she is most helpfull and skilled but she works for the wrong casino group

 

[Rachel888]

@Piratas,

can you please PM me your first name, last name, 888casino username and location I will take a look and see what I can do for you

as well as registered email address

Regards,
Rachel

 

[petro]

promoted to the accredited list or...you know...be dumped.

Love That!

I voted neutral as I have had no personal experience with these casinos.

 

[rainmaker]

I have asked in this thread if a rep from Cassava/888 can clarify the relationship (especially with regard to bonuses) between all of the casinos within the 888 holdings group, also known as "the company".

I have not gotten any reply in this thread about this. I have also sent a PM to the new Cassava rep, no reply. Even asked in his "hello"-thread, but no repy. In a final attempt, I tried to contact the CS support at 888.com. But of course, no reply.

 

[The Dude]

Actually, this is a top subject at the moment. The way it works is that 888.com and Reef Club are totally separate entities from the Dragonfish properties. They do not cross promote. Now Dragonfish uses Casava support - as do 888.com, and they have the same software, but that's about as far as it goes.

CasavaDan has been on vacation - so I've heard.

 

[rainmaker]

Actually, this is a top subject at the moment. The way it works is that 888.com and Reef Club are totally separate entities from the Dragonfish properties. They do not cross promote. Now Dragonfish uses Casava support - as do 888.com, and they have the same software, but that's about as far as it goes.

CasavaDan has been on vacation - so I've heard.

Exactly, and thats where the problem is in my opinion. Because both 888.com and Littlewoods (used as an example) are considered to be a part of "the company". Their T&C states that a player can only accept a welcome bonus from one of the casinos within "the company".

On one hand, 888.com and Littlewoods are separate entities, and on the other hand they are under the same company subject to the same T&C.

So a player might sign up at a Dragonfish casino, and still be within "the company". Same T&C as for example 888.com and Reef Club. And "the company" may confiscate a players winnings if he/she has accepted bonuses from Dragonfish casinos and 888.com/Reef Club. Separate entities? No. Messy? Yes.

 

[rainmaker]

Just an update.

I have received a reply from the CS at 888.com. Despite the automatically e-mail reply (up to 48 hours to reply...), it did take them almost 5 days to give me an answer.

I asked if they could clarify the relationship (especially considering welcome bonuses) between 888.com and Littlewoods (white label casino, used as an example). They told me that 888 has nothing to do with Littlewoods. Their response means that a player may accept a welcome bonus from several casinos within "the company".

Again, this is the opposite of what is written in their T&C.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually, this is a top subject at the moment. The way it works is that 888.com and Reef Club are totally separate entities from the Dragonfish properties. They do not cross promote. Now Dragonfish uses Casava support - as do 888.com, and they have the same software, but that's about as far as it goes.

CasavaDan has been on vacation - so I've heard.

In that case, they should not be sharing data about players' playing habits, and penalising them at one property for their playing style at a "totally separate entity".

There is also a matter of the cross promotion, somehow is IS happening when players sign up at one property. If it is not SUPPOSED to happen, then our data is not being properly secured against such MISuse, which is presumably down to these Dragonfish properties.

Even if wholly within the Dragonfish casinos, WHY are they cross promoting in the first place, as this is an ABSOLUTE "no no" in the "company" terms and conditions, suggesting no LEGITIMATE motive for promoting a sign up at more than one dragonfish property, leaving ONLY the "dodgy" motives, such as hoping to trap a player into signing up at a second Dragonfish casino where they cannot win (it will be confiscated), but COULD lose.

 

[rainmaker]

888 boss Gigi Levy leaves online gaming firm to 'pursue other interests'


Old / Expired Link

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[TheSpade]

888.com, Lucky Ace and Casino On Net are some of the worst casinos I've ever played at. Terrible customer service who take up to 2 weeks to reply, broken promises and out right lies, changing bonus terms mid way through bonus to suit themselves without updating the terms, forcing me to wager way more than their bonus terms stated just because I'd made a profit. Even when I got affiliates involved on my behalf they couldn't care less, fobbed them off and tried to fob me hoping I'd give up.

I wouldn't ever play at any of their casinos again.

 

[musclemx]

pesime

and terribly bad games, I've seen in a while the same jackpots