Complaints Section

[Casinomeister]

Due to the fact that most new members either don't bother reading the posting rules for the complaints section, or abide by them, the Complaints Section is now closed to newbie members. You have to be a "Fully Registered" member in order to post there. Newbies can still PAB and contact casino reps, but due to the growing number of members who disregard the importance of maintaining a sense of order and community - they can no longer post there.

Fully Registered: Once a member has either 50 reputation points or 100 posts and has been registered for at least 30 days, the membership becomes "Fully Registered". These members have full usage of the public areas and can include URLs in their signature.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/forum_rules.php

[Casinomeister]

Just to add - I expect Fully Registered members and above to be able to do what is expected of them when posting complaints. Thanks!

[suzecat]

Due to the fact that most new members either don't bother reading the posting rules for the complaints section, or abide by them, the Complaints Section is now closed to newbie members. You have to be a "Fully Registered" member in order to post there. Newbies can still PAB and contact casino reps, but due to the growing number of members who disregard the importance of maintaining a sense of order and community - they can no longer post there.

Fully Registered: Once a member has either 50 reputation points or 100 posts and has been registered for at least 30 days, the membership becomes "Fully Registered". These members have full usage of the public areas and can include URLs in their signature.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/forum_rules.php

Too freakin sensible Bryan! Long overdue...........bummer though, cuz what will I do with all the extra time? And poor Maxd..........NOT

[Markus]

Closing the Complaints Section to newbie members has in my opinion some drawbacks:

- Members who have a problem with a non-accredited casino and have already made a PAB and are no active forum member, they have no chance to solve this problem with the Casinomeister nor with the Casinomeister community.

- Some members (like me) come only in contact with this forum because they would like to report in the Complaints Section about a problem. It could be that the Casinomeister forum loses many valuable new members because they will find out that they can not open a thread about their problem, then they will be frustrated and probably never come back.

- New members are more likely to spam the forum with useless postings to reach 100 posts as quickly as possible to be unlocked for the Complaints Section. Members who don't want to do that, like me, will need probably several month to reach the status "Fully Registered".

- Newbie members who opepened some time ago a thread in the Complaints Section are now no longer allowed to take part in it. This problem affects me, I would like to write a repley in this Thread which I have opened some month ago, but I can't do it anymore.

- Now there will be significant less posts in the Complaints Section and this is disadvantageous for all of us because now we get less information about casinos doing rogue stuff.

However I understand that new members are more likely to violate the rules on opening complaint threads which causes unacceptable time and effort for the moderators of this forum. Therefore I have thought about this problem and maybe found an alternative solution:

Some time ago I wanted to make my first negative feedback on eBay, before I was allowed to do so I was asked from eBay to take part in a test to check whether I have properly understood the eBay rules and to prevent that I deliver a hasty negative feedback. There where questions like "If there is a problem with the bought item what do you do first?" and there were multiple-choice answers like "a) Do a negative feedback", "b) Contact with the seller", etc. Such a test could be also implemented here at Casinomeister. Every time a member wants to open for the first time a complaint thread, he must participate in test to check whether he has understood the rules. If he passes the test, then he is unlocked for the Complaints Section, but if he fails he get blocked from the Complaints Section for a few days, after that he may repeat the test.


@Casinomeister: You have successfully unlocked me from forum "Suggestions & feedback", but unfortunately I'm still locked in my Thread in the Complaints Section. Could you please take again a look at it? Thank you.

[maxd]

Excellent post Markus!

We're discussing what to do in the Complaints section and your post has provided some outstanding material for us to think about. Good on ya!

[mrjones]

hi , couldnt agree with you more as ive been a member here a while , i read alot on here though dont post very much , but sometimes i could of helped out in a few posts though cant do much due to the fact that ive not posted shed loads on here , but on the other hand i can see casinomeister doesnt want lots of spams .

[Alexishot69]

Perhaps and ive said it before that fr at least genuine people who join the forum coud be made to at the very least be made to make a smal deposit which of course woul dbe lost if it was a fake..i think anyone whos gonna complain regarding osing money woul dbe more than glad to give up a little deposit to try obtain funds back from a casino...just a thought...alex x

[spearmaster]

- Some members (like me) come only in contact with this forum because they would like to report in the Complaints Section about a problem. It could be that the Casinomeister forum loses many valuable new members because they will find out that they can not open a thread about their problem, then they will be frustrated and probably never come back.

I would suggest that a "valuable" member is already willing to participate here in more ways than one - in other words, if your only reason to visit here is to get someone to handle a complaint, you're in the wrong place.

And a member who only posts complaints is not going to be a great loss - don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we don't want members like this - but this is a forum. It is not the "Better Business Bureau", nor is it the "Complaints Department". It is a community of people talking about a subject that they find interesting.

How would you feel if someone moved into your neighborhood with the purpose of playing loud music because he discovered that your community seems to tolerate noise pollution?

You move into a community because of other reasons - safe for kids, good schools, pleasant neighborhood, closer to work, etc. You participate as a member of the community - maybe not vocally, maybe not participating in town meetings - but you buy stuff at the local stores, send your kids to the local schools, visit the local doctor, etc.

Thus, if you moved into the community with the purpose of playing loud music and discovered that it was only allowed to certain people on certain occasions, and you moved out of the community, would it be a great loss to the others?

I'm sorry - but I have to disagree with your reasoning here.

- New members are more likely to spam the forum with useless postings to reach 100 posts as quickly as possible to be unlocked for the Complaints Section. Members who don't want to do that, like me, will need probably several month to reach the status "Fully Registered".

By the time a new member reaches 5 useless posts, his intentions will be plenty clear. That kind of participation certainly will not get you unlocked - it will get you thrown into a special user's group for "useless postings".

- Newbie members who opepened some time ago a thread in the Complaints Section are now no longer allowed to take part in it. This problem affects me, I would like to write a repley in this Thread which I have opened some month ago, but I can't do it anymore.

This I agree with - but we would probably deal with this in a different way, like temporarily opening a section for "grandfathered" posts in order to allow you to continue to post in those threads.

- Now there will be significant less posts in the Complaints Section and this is disadvantageous for all of us because now we get less information about casinos doing rogue stuff.

The disadvantage is not clear. If you make use of the Accredited List, the number of complaints will be very few if any. If you play at a casino that is not accredited, you should understand the risks yourself. I do think it is a bit presumptuous to expect Casinomeister to have to serve complaints about casinos which are not accredited - but he does do so and as such he has the right to determine which complaints he will pursue.

Some time ago I wanted to make my first negative feedback on eBay, before I was allowed to do so I was asked from eBay to take part in a test to check whether I have properly understood the eBay rules and to prevent that I deliver a hasty negative feedback. There where questions like "If there is a problem with the bought item what do you do first?" and there were multiple-choice answers like "a) Do a negative feedback", "b) Contact with the seller", etc. Such a test could be also implemented here at Casinomeister. Every time a member wants to open for the first time a complaint thread, he must participate in test to check whether he has understood the rules. If he passes the test, then he is unlocked for the Complaints Section, but if he fails he get blocked from the Complaints Section for a few days, after that he may repeat the test.

That's not a bad suggestion. However, that would take a bit of work to implement, and there's no guarantee that it will make things any better. If this process can be somewhat automated, I'm sure Casinomeister will consider it - but if it raises the workload to an unacceptable level, obviously this is not something that he will want, nor would any of the members as it causes everything else to be done slowly.

[Markus]

I would suggest that a "valuable" member is already willing to participate here in more ways than one - in other words, if your only reason to visit here is to get someone to handle a complaint, you're in the wrong place.

And a member who only posts complaints is not going to be a great loss - don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we don't want members like this - but this is a forum. It is not the "Better Business Bureau", nor is it the "Complaints Department". It is a community of people talking about a subject that they find interesting.

How would you feel if someone moved into your neighborhood with the purpose of playing loud music because he discovered that your community seems to tolerate noise pollution?

You move into a community because of other reasons - safe for kids, good schools, pleasant neighborhood, closer to work, etc. You participate as a member of the community - maybe not vocally, maybe not participating in town meetings - but you buy stuff at the local stores, send your kids to the local schools, visit the local doctor, etc.

Thus, if you moved into the community with the purpose of playing loud music and discovered that it was only allowed to certain people on certain occasions, and you moved out of the community, would it be a great loss to the others?

I'm sorry - but I have to disagree with your reasoning here.

I have not said that we need at all costs members who do nothing else then posting complaints. What I meant was that there are members whose motivation to register at this forum was based on the possibility of reporting about their problems with a casino. I count myself to this group. Of course these members must not become necessarily valuable members who also participate in other topics, but there is a fair chance.

By the time a new member reaches 5 useless posts, his intentions will be plenty clear. That kind of participation certainly will not get you unlocked - it will get you thrown into a special user's group for "useless postings".

These posts will not be completely useless, but the quality decreases. And you will get a lot of these meaningless single-line postings like "I agree.", "ROFL!", etc.

The disadvantage is not clear. If you make use of the Accredited List, the number of complaints will be very few if any. If you play at a casino that is not accredited, you should understand the risks yourself. I do think it is a bit presumptuous to expect Casinomeister to have to serve complaints about casinos which are not accredited - but he does do so and as such he has the right to determine which complaints he will pursue.

Even accredited casinos can cause trouble (current example: Casino Club) and I'm thankful that public forums like the Casinomeister Complaints Section and others warn me about these problems. For me it would be a large disadvantage if I would get much less of these important informations.

[spearmaster]

I have not said that we need at all costs members who do nothing else then posting complaints. What I meant was that there are members whose motivation to register at this forum was based on the possibility of reporting about their problems with a casino. I count myself to this group. Of course these members must not become necessarily valuable members who also participate in other topics, but there is a fair chance.

Your motivation should be to want to participate in the community - not on the off-chance that you have a complaint to file. Again I refer back to my example - you move to a community for a whole bunch of valid reasons, not just because you think they'll allow you to play loud music.

*IF* your motivation is because you want to post a complaint - there's a pretty damn good chance that is the ONLY reason you will come to the forum. I don't doubt that some people will first find Casinomeister because they heard that they could file a complaint here - but this is the wrong reason to come here.

Those who have no interest in the forums will complain that the complaints forum is not open to them, without looking into other options, without even asking around.

Think about it this way - you are discussing something of interest to you - and I daresay you will be the exception to the rule - but at least you make the effort. Discussion is what Casinomeister is all about - not unrealistic expectations that CM is going to throw his weight around just because you asked him to.

The reality of this situation is that many, many people have abused this privilege - so if you want to blame someone, blame those before you.

These posts will not be completely useless, but the quality decreases. And you will get a lot of these meaningless single-line postings like "I agree.", "ROFL!", etc.

Take my word for it - we can still spot them a mile away. Single-line posts in my mind do not qualify as relevant or useful in 99% of cases.

Once someone hits whatever milestone (say 100 posts) to cross into the full-membership arena, there's a fairly high chance that that person will be reviewed a second time by one or more moderators if they feel that something is amiss. Certainly, someone who achieves 100 posts in a very short span of time is not going to be enjoying full membership for very long before he is reclassed into a group of people who need to re-qualify in some manner or other. But in reality, many of these can't even be bothered to waste 100 minutes of their time making one-line responses - in all likelihood, it's their impatience that brought them here in the first place.

Even accredited casinos can cause trouble (current example: Casino Club) and I'm thankful that public forums like the Casinomeister Complaints Section and others warn me about these problems. For me it would be a large disadvantage if I would get much less of these important informations.

It would be highly unusual for any accredited casino to run into problems with players without affecting someone who is already a full member here. I think it's fair to say that you won't be missing out on much, other than a whole bunch of newbies coming to say "Me too".

Again, I must repeat - this decision wasn't taken lightly - CM didn't just one day say "The heck with it, I'm shutting down Complaints to new members". This came about as a result of years of abuse from one-time wonders. This was discussed amongst moderators as well - and in the end CM *reluctantly* decided that this was the best way forward, as this has been discussed a number of times over the years and CM finally decided that the time had come for a change in policy.

It is not necessarily a welcome change for some people - but it is a change which will result in long-time members getting better attention, and ultimately more time available for increasing the resources available to everyone in general.

edit --> I should add one more very important point. It does not require 100 posts to become a full member - someone who comes in here and participates in a way that people appreciate can earn reputation points - and it only takes 50 reputation points plus the 30 days to qualify.

For example - at the time of this post (or rather, this edit) - you have 135 reputation points, even though you've only been here since August. These reputation points came from people who appreciate your posts.

However - one-line posts or useless posts quickly attract negative reputation points as well - so perhaps Casinomeister should consider amending the policy to 30 days and either (100 posts and a positive reputation), or (+50 rep points, regardless of number of posts).

There *are* members in here who by themselves can give over 100 rep points - moderators only have the power to give 15. So effectively it's the members who can approve you for full membership if they believe your posts are useful.