Bonus Complaint Casino Tropez confiscated winnings totalling 38k.

[Riaandw]

A few weeks ago I found casino Tropez online and proceeded to open a mobile account with them from my cell. I made 3 separate deposits, first 5k which I lost then 3k which I also lost and another deposit of 2k. I then proceeded to play this on roulette, blackjack and slots up to 40k which I then decided to withdrawal. I spoke to a representative who congratulated me on my winnings and said that it would take about a week for the withdrawal to complete. After waiting a week contacted them again and we're asked to wait a bit longer. Then a few days later I log into my account to find my balance on 2k and my access to my transactions removed. After contacting them to find out what going on, they stated that I had not completed my wagering requirements. I've requested they simply decline my withdrawal and return my winning for completion of said wagering requirements which they are not being helpful with. Also requested to be contacted by an superior that has not happened.

Please, I need some advice on how to proceed with this matter. Any help appreciated...

 

[Balthazar]

Stealing your winnings because you tried to cashout before the wagering requirement was completed is absolutely rogue. Unfortunately, Tropez is on the no-can-do list here so Casinomeister won't be able to help you much.

Out of curiosity, did you play all your money down to $0 after each deposit to clear the WR from the previous sessions?

 

[Riaandw]

Hi and thanks for replying.

Also the way I understand it, if I have not completed their wagering requirements my withdrawal should simply be denied and I should then be informed to complete before I'll be able to withdrawal. They are basically using their bonus to confiscate money? I'm guessing that they make very little payouts in this fashion.

I played my account to zero every time before depositing again.

Why are they on the no can do list. Should they not be marked as rouge if the practices continue and they don't care to resolve?

 

[Nifty29]

So you didn't read the terms and conditions?

If you did, you would have known the following:

In the interest of fair gaming, in order to cash out any amount of money you must wager at least twenty-five (25) times your play bonus plus deposit. If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void.

It's a nasty term, but you agreed to it by creating your account and accepting a bonus.

If you don't want to lose your winnings in future, read the terms and conditions and abide by them. It's really not rocket science.

The fact that the term is awful is a seperate argument. Either members think that you should be bound by the terms you accept, or they don't. Picking and choosing which terms you like and thinking that these are the only ones you should be bound by is for children. Adults accept responsibility for their own actions.

You might also want to stick to the accredited casino list in future, or at least do your due diligence beforehand.

 

[maxd]

Why are they on the no can do list. Should they not be marked as rouge if the practices continue and they don't care to resolve?

When a casino refuses to discuss cases then we have very little insight into what actually happened. Hearsay is not enough to blacklist someone so it's generally a matter of not having enough proof on hand to warrant a full Rogue listing. That said, each case is a judgement call, at least that's what I see from the PAB side of things. Bryan may have other thoughts to add to this when he returns.

 

[catapultaudio]

@Nifty29, damn the guys lost 40k, could you be any more of a heartless asshole? of course, you are completely correct, but what an attitude pal damn ... ?!

is the 'ROGUE DEFENDER FROM DAY ONE' your own choice of title too?

 

[aceking123]

@Nifty29, damn the guys lost 40k, could you be any more of a heartless asshole? of course, you are completely correct, but what an attitude pal damn ... ?!

is the 'ROGUE DEFENDER FROM DAY ONE' your own choice of title too?

hey hey common thats the way nifty is he likes to speak facts , its nothing personal take it with a pinch of salt , hes a clued up member whos been around for a while , hes a good member no need for the asshole bit ! its his way of pointing things out when they signed up , had they read the terms properly we wouldnt have this here now would we)

 

[dunover]

@Nifty29, damn the guys lost 40k, could you be any more of a heartless asshole? of course, you are completely correct, but what an attitude pal damn ... ?!

is the 'ROGUE DEFENDER FROM DAY ONE' your own choice of title too?

No, the 'rogue defender' is an ironic tag he added after being accused irrationally in another topic/thread. Like my 'foil hat' avatar. You gotta have a sense of humour on here sometimes.

It's harsh, but true. He does say the condition/term stinks, but it's there. The fact it's there tells you all you need to know about this bunch of shysters. Any decent casino would either inform you honestly after the attempted withdrawal that you have had the funds returned to your account until you meet WR, or their withdrawal portal would tell you before you attempted the withdrawal that you still had bonus funds outstanding. No this lot. They are sneaky and disingenuous. But they do list this disgusting term in their T&C's. That's all he says.

And swearing at members will soon have you moderated or more likely banned. Reasoned argument always trumps insults.

 

[Mouche12]

Oh my god! Again the same issue at a Playtech casino - so what exactly happened here? Was the OP really properly warned that he was to lose all his winnings when he would proceed to making a withdrawal? It seems so difficult to believe that a player depositing 10K in total would not have checked his WR (assuming that it was clearly mentioned in the cashier section?) - or with Live Chat - and yes Nifty - read the terms. Then again, we had already established in the Casino Plex thread that such a term is clearly rogue.

So, Casino Tropez is on the no-can-do list, a huge red flag. The OP obviously did not check this site (or knew of its existence). Is it still worth submitting a PAB? I hope so.

 

[catapultaudio]

Now hang on, I'm not getting personal here - quite the opposite. I'm sure Nifty is an okay guy, and not an asshole, but even good people can act like sh*ts towards others at times (myself included!)

Read what he wrote again - it's just a bunch of snide comments, slating a relative newbie in a patronising/condescending way for making a mistake that has cost him an AWFUL lot of money. He's not "just saying its in the T&Cs" - he could say that in a much more pleasant way. If his intention was not to belittle the OP then he could have fooled me, I found it distasteful so I said so.

If that's your idea of 'humour' then fair enough, but it isn't mine.

I do apologise for any offence caused and hope my intentions are clear.

 

[bpb]

Read what he wrote again - it's just a bunch of snide comments, slating a relative newbie in a patronising/condescending way for making a mistake that has cost him an AWFUL lot of money. He's not "just saying its in the T&Cs" - he could say that in a much more pleasant way. If his intention was not to belittle the OP then he could have fooled me, I found it distasteful so I said so.

His intention was clearly to belittle the OP and soapbox for awhile on a topic where few rational people share his views.

 

[dionysus]

So you didn't read the terms and conditions?

If you did, you would have known the following:



It's a nasty term, but you agreed to it by creating your account and accepting a bonus.

If you don't want to lose your winnings in future, read the terms and conditions and abide by them. It's really not rocket science.

The fact that the term is awful is a seperate argument. Either members think that you should be bound by the terms you accept, or they don't. Picking and choosing which terms you like and thinking that these are the only ones you should be bound by is for children. Adults accept responsibility for their own actions.

You might also want to stick to the accredited casino list in future, or at least do your due diligence beforehand.

I'm not nifty's big defender, but if this upsets you, you need thicker skin - it might be blunt, but it's hardly a personal attack - after all, Nifty's blunt across the board, so it's hardly going after the op

 

[chuchu59]

This is the casino Plex issue all over again. The OP made a perfectly reasonable request to have the balance reinstated to complete wagering. Damn these ridiculous terms about not attempting a cashout before wagering is complete. It has nothing to do with the incompletion of wagering requirements as its simply a case of telling the player of this and let the remaining wagering run its course. If we are unhappy about the paltry weekly instalment payments of some RTGs though they are written in the terms this is even worse as its a clear seizure of winnings. At least for the former one will get paid ultimately. If one condones one set of terms but insists of adherence of terms for the other its 'double standard' IMVHO.

 

[Nifty29]

This is the casino Plex issue all over again. The OP made a perfectly reasonable request to have the balance reinstated to complete wagering. Damn these ridiculous terms about not attempting a cashout before wagering is complete. It has nothing to do with the incompletion of wagering requirements as its simply a case of telling the player of this and let the remaining wagering run its course. If we are unhappy about the paltry weekly instalment payments of some RTGs though they are written in the terms this is even worse as its a clear seizure of winnings. At least for the former one will get paid ultimately. If one condones one set of terms but insists of adherence of terms for the other its 'double standard' IMVHO.

I agree Chu....the casino SHOULD reinstate the OPs balance and let him finish. A decent operator would do this all day long.

Unfortunately, this one, along with CasinoPlex, is not a decent operator and they have crap terms that are designed to take advantage of careless and sometime ignorant players.

The OP did not read the terms and conditions in any form it seems. Otherwise, they would have been tracking their wagering manually OR using the playtech in-house WR tracking in the cashier.

The irresponsibility of the OP is what caused him to lose $40k. If he had contacted support first, OR checked his wagering in the cashier, OR actually read the terms, OR not accepted the bonus (a popup confirmation by player is required at PT casinos), OR checked the accredited list here, this thread would not exist and the OP would most likely be celebrating a nice profit in his bank.

I have no sympathy for people who just blindly go about throwing their money around without doing any kind of due diligence at all, and who flatly refuse to employ any vestige of common sense. I have absolute sympathy for those who do the right thing and use their brains and get ripped off regardless, and my posting history here will support that completely.

My question to others here is this:

If the last bonus he took had a maximum cashout term of 10xDeposit, which is totally crap IMO and is possible but not common, and he didn't read the bonus terms etc, and then posted a complaint here saying he had been "ripped off by $20k", would you support the complaint?

Both scenarios just about everything in common:

1. Crap term
2. Player didn't read terms
3. Player agreed to terms
4. Player loses winnings.

The ONLY difference is the amount involved i.e. he only loses half his winnings instead of all.

Now, I've seen hundreds of scenarios like the second one with max cashouts and nearly everybody, including people here in this thread, have said "Well the terms say max cashout of 10x so that's what you're stuck with. The term sucks but you didn't have to take the bonus....you did, so you're bound by it. Sorry". However, in this and the casinoplex situation, some have said that in the first scenario the terms should not apply.....and I genuinely cannot understand that logic. If someone can enlighten me, I would be grateful and perhaps I will understand better.

I also have to wonder that if the OP deposited $20 and cashed out $200 and lost his winnings, there would be the same number of members getting fired up, or even bothering to read it at all. I mean, it's only $200 right? However, it is the same as a $2000 deposit with winnings of $40000....in fact, to the OP, a $2000 deposit might mean the same as a $20 deposit to someone else (remember he did deposit $5k and $3k previously). So, the only thing I can think of is that it is all about the amount for those who are slating the casino and calling them rogue i.e. how much you deposit and win dictates whether you should be held to a term or not, so high rollers are exempted from the rules that low rollers have to follow. Now THAT is totally unfair, no?

The casino should be rogue/not recommended for HAVING the term in the first place....NOT for enforcing it upon players who agreed to be bound by it. The two aspects are very different, and members who say that casinos should be rogued for enforcing their own terms should consider not playing anywhere any more because all casinos do it.

 

[Nifty29]

FTR.

I did not personally insult the OP nor anyone else for that matter.

If a member feels that I did, they should quit kvetching here and derailing the discussion and report my post/s to the moderators.

 

[chayton]

They're not related are they? Casino Plex and Tropez?

 

[Balthazar]

They're not related are they? Casino Plex and Tropez?

No.
Casino Plex = E-Play 24 Limited group
Casino Tropez = Hardway Investments group

 

[maxd]

Is it still worth submitting a PAB? I hope so.

Honestly, I rather doubt it. This group (Hardway) is notoriously unresponsive and uncooperative so chances are they would be so here too and that would prove nothing.

In the off chance that they did respond all they'd say is "player violated the Terms" which is apparently obvious to everyone, including the OP. Sure, the Term applicable here is shite, again there is pretty much general agreement on that, but that's why one reads the Terms and avoids casinos that have shite Terms, no? Which is pretty much what Nifty said in the first place.

 

[chuchu59]

On the OP's complaint I do understand that there is nothing Max can do about it. Ye, if this sort of roguish action remains unchecked it may become contagious within the industry. Other operators will follow suit and insert some ridiculous terms like you can only initiate a w/d on the 1st of any month and if you did so on any other days your balance is confiscated.
These are the terms and the casinos wont use them to their advantage unless there is a sizable cashout. I urge Bryan to raise this issue with the operators when he has an opportunity to meet them in any conference in future. My take is any terms and conditions must be relevant to the bonus, cashout or whatever its about. The industry is already unregulated and we must not allow them to do anything they please.

 

[maxd]

In principle Chu I agree with you on pretty much all counts. In practice though things are not so simple. For instance, Bryan/CM is not in a position of dictating to casinos what their Terms should be. Of course if they want to be Accredited then yes, certain things need to be in the Terms, or not as the case may be, but that is more of a "these are the conditions under which we can work together" situation than anything else.

There's also our Warnings system which we can use to alert players to specific situations that they really need to be aware of, draconian Terms, etc.

But I feel the responsibility ultimately lies with the player because they have the one thing that drives the whole process: their money. If players avoid casinos that have shite Terms, behave badly, whatever, then those casinos start to wither up and sooner or later they realise it's in their own interests to change their ways.

But the unfortunate truth is that many many many players are not discriminating about where they spend their gambling dollar. They go for attractive bonuses or "sexy" games or just follow some casino advert they saw while they were getting their latest tattoo or whatever. In other words they give their money away too easily and that allows a lot of pretty grey casino practices to take root and flourish. In fact I'd say it's so bad that players have created a lot of the monsters they now have to deal with: years and years of deposits at casinos that are known to be suspect has turned those same casinos into very powerful companies, simply because of all the money that has been dumped into their laps. All those billions in the industry come from one place: players. Whatever we have on the scene today is in large part thanks to them and them alone. Nobody else is paying to make this happen so what does happen is ultimately their shared responsibility.

As I see it we, other sites like us, licensing agencies, even governments can work our asses off trying to help the players and make online gambling better for them but at the end of the day the players get the gambling services they deserve because they're the ones backrolling the entire scene. I know I'm pissing into the wind on this one but what can I say, I've been in the business as long as anyone and those are just some basic truths that have been there since Day One and haven't changed since. IMHO.

 

[hakapuku]

Also this group can be identified by their affiliate name Europartners. Other casinos of the group- Vegas Red, Europa casino, Titan casino, Casino Tropez and some other. They behave in a very rogue fashion lately. You cannot confiscate 40 k just because somebody made a withdrawal before he/she completed wagering requirements. In these casinos you cannot know if you fulfilled the requirements or not - and a simple miscalculation can lead to premature withdrawal. And then they don't pay you 40 k. Unbelievable!

 

[Temperance Fox]

I then proceeded to play this on roulette, blackjack and slots up to 40k which I then decided to withdrawal. I spoke to a representative who congratulated me on my winnings and said that it would take about a week for the withdrawal to complete. After waiting a week contacted them again and we're asked to wait a bit longer. Then a few days later I log into my account to find my balance on 2k and my access to my transactions removed. After contacting them to find out what going on, they stated that I had not completed my wagering requirements. I've requested they simply decline my withdrawal and return my winning for completion of said wagering requirements which they are not being helpful with. Also requested to be contacted by an superior that has not happened.

Please, I need some advice on how to proceed with this matter. Any help appreciated...

Tropez makes part of Europa group.I have to say they're really changed, they're different from the past.Sometimes I play at VegasRed and have no problem.So, my experience:

1) when you try to make a withdrawal without WR met, it appears that you cannot.Not for you? Do you have the screen?

2) in every casino's terms, also the best, there's written the same (if you try to cash out your winnings before met WR and so on), but never had problems anywhere because, as I said, I was simply advised before if I try to cash out, always and everywhere

3) I think that if you have somewhere the congrats indirecltly confirming your winnings and, for some mistake your wager need to be complete, they must put the entire amount into your balance.You have to inform how many WR have to do still and use comps points to check.

4) Imho your balance is very high and I think it would be quite easy to met WR, maybe that's the reason why they avoided your winnings, and this is not honest.

Finally I think, for what I just wrote, you're on the right side, so now the only thing to do is to find the right person to talk.Don't wait for their emails, move yourself!

 

[Mouche12]

If I were the OP I would seek legal assistance and try to combat the unfair term in court.

 

[gloria460]

A few weeks ago I found casino Tropez online and proceeded to open a mobile account with them from my cell. I made 3 separate deposits, first 5k which I lost then 3k which I also lost and another deposit of 2k. I then proceeded to play this on roulette, blackjack and slots up to 40k which I then decided to withdrawal. I spoke to a representative who congratulated me on my winnings and said that it would take about a week for the withdrawal to complete. After waiting a week contacted them again and we're asked to wait a bit longer. Then a few days later I log into my account to find my balance on 2k and my access to my transactions removed. After contacting them to find out what going on, they stated that I had not completed my wagering requirements. I've requested they simply decline my withdrawal and return my winning for completion of said wagering requirements which they are not being helpful with. Also requested to be contacted by an superior that has not happened.

Please, I need some advice on how to proceed with this matter. Any help appreciated...

Try gamblinggrumbles.com they deal with complaints like this and might have some success at it. Let us know if they can help you.

 

[Naokia980]

Is this problem connected your deposit amount,meaning woney washing? I know bad experiences about tropez casino from other forums called 'abusers',be careful..

 

[Sovietsky]

text

I don't get it with the thumbs up? Is it a good casino?


Anyways.

If people actually could google the casinos name or search here at CM they would lose customers and 1 bad casino less.
But as long as majority of people dosen't do that they will keep on with their stupid terms.

I hope you have better luck at gambling grumbles.

 

[Nifty29]

Also this group can be identified by their affiliate name Europartners. Other casinos of the group- Vegas Red, Europa casino, Titan casino, Casino Tropez and some other. They behave in a very rogue fashion lately. You cannot confiscate 40 k just because somebody made a withdrawal before he/she completed wagering requirements. In these casinos you cannot know if you fulfilled the requirements or not - and a simple miscalculation can lead to premature withdrawal. And then they don't pay you 40 k. Unbelievable!

PT casinos (well all the ones I play/have played) have a WR counter in the cashier so you can see exactly how much you have left to wager for your current bonus. So, your statement "you cannot know if you fulfilled the requirements or not" is erroneous.

Another erroneous statement is "You cannot confiscate 40 k just because somebody made a withdrawal before he/she completed wagering requirements". Why? The OP agreed that they CAN by accepting the terms and conditions as clearly stated on the website AND the link provided when asking to confirm acceptance of the bonus.

Mouche can advise legal action 'til the cows come home, but if history is any guide, you will be wasting your time and money. Technically, the balance in your account is not "yours" until the bonus is converted to cash by fulfilling the WR...the only exception being possibly your original deposit which should always be "yours". Any other money on top of your deposit belongs to the casino until you meet WR.

It's obvious this guy didn't bother doing ANY kind of due diligence AT ALL e.g. reading terms, contacting support, checking WR progress. It is also obvious that he didn't even KNOW what his WR was to begin with, and it is also obviously not his first ever deposit at any online casino anywhere, so he is no "newb" who doesn't know how things roll.

I'm all for fair, but I'm also all for common sense and taking some kind of responsibility for our actions. All the casino did here was enforce the mutually-agreed terms and conditions...the fact that those T and Cs are crap is irrelevant to this matter, as the time to decide if the terms are crap was BEFORE playing.

 

[Webzcas]

I'm all for fair, but I'm also all for common sense and taking some kind of responsibility for our actions. All the casino did here was enforce the mutually-agreed terms and conditions...the fact that those T and Cs are crap is irrelevant to this matter, as the time to decide if the terms are crap was BEFORE playing.

Unfortunately Nifty is right. These T & C's are awful but the casino will use them in this instance. Also please do your research before choosing an online casino to play at. Their affiliate program Europartners is one of the worst around for webmasters to work with. I have both Europartners and the properties ( including Casino Tropez ) they represent blacklisted.

 

[KasinoKing]

The irresponsibility of the OP is what caused him to lose $40k...

Just a minor observation: As the OP is located in South Africa, I would think it very likely he is talking about Rand, not Dollars.
38,000 Rand = a little under $4,000.
Still a significant sum, but not as much as some might think is involved.

KK

 

[Nifty29]

Just a minor observation: As the OP is located in South Africa, I would think it very likely he is talking about Rand, not Dollars.
38,000 Rand = a little under $4,000.
Still a significant sum, but not as much as some might think is involved.

KK

Good pickup

I wonder if the OP could confirm?

Still, the amount is immaterial. I'd be supporting the player if were truly ripped off through no fault of their own whether it was $5 or $5mil....in this case the player ALLOWED themselves to be ripped off

 

[hakapuku]

PT casinos (well all the ones I play/have played) have a WR counter in the cashier so you can see exactly how much you have left to wager for your current bonus. So, your statement "you cannot know if you fulfilled the requirements or not" is erroneous.

.

I don't know Nifty where do you get your information from but I now logged into my old Vegas Red account- nothing changed. There is no any information in their cashier about how much wagering done or left. The only information you can find is comp points- which is not the same.

 

[Nifty29]

I don't know Nifty where do you get your information from but I now logged into my old Vegas Red account- nothing changed. There is no any information in their cashier about how much wagering done or left. The only information you can find is comp points- which is not the same.

Which is why I said "well all the ones I play/have played".

Also, you CAN track your WR using comp point. I used to do it all the time. As long as you know your $1 = x points ratio. which the cashier DOES tell you, and how much the game you're playing contributes to WR, then it is quite simple. Just note your comp points before you start and you're golden. It's not rocket science.

However, the OP didn't even KNOW what his WR was by the sound of it so none of this would have helped....not even a WR counter like other PT casinos have now, as he clearly had no clue about what he was doing.

 

[Marie2473]

Casino Plex has a thing in the cashier section where u can see exactly how much you have wagered and how much is left. Atleast they did a week ago.

 

[cass1071]

Casino Tropez Bonus

I have used online chat with Casino Tropez to get confirmation my wagering requirements had been met prior to withdrawing, and they let you know without hassle.

But it goes without saying the self checking option in the cashier at some casinos like BetFred should be mandatory

 

[Temperance Fox]

I spoke to a representative who congratulated me on my winnings and said that it would take about a week for the withdrawal to complete.

Really that group has another way to manage , better than years ago.
Really at any casino you can't cash out without WR met, they let you know.
I think that's true: there's a big difference about currency

Finally I know other playtech more fraud out there.I think all depends by management and managers can change.I 've sent a pm to the OP with the toll free number, but it seems the OP is not enough interested about his complain.

 

[chuchu59]

Which is why I said "well all the ones I play/have played".

Also, you CAN track your WR using comp point. I used to do it all the time. As long as you know your $1 = x points ratio. which the cashier DOES tell you, and how much the game you're playing contributes to WR, then it is quite simple. Just note your comp points before you start and you're golden. It's not rocket science.

However, the OP didn't even KNOW what his WR was by the sound of it so none of this would have helped....not even a WR counter like other PT casinos have now, as he clearly had no clue about what he was doing.

Out of interest Nifty, does the cashier of the PTs you played at allow a w/d before wrs are met or are the 2 things disassociated?

 

[dunover]

Out of interest Nifty, does the cashier of the PTs you played at allow a w/d before wrs are met or are the 2 things disassociated?

I haven't played PT for ages, but I do remember that if you accessed the standard PT banking portal which most PT sites use, you could check your balance at any time and by the 'Cherry' would be bonus funds at that moment. Similarly cash by the cash logo. IF you deposited and took bonus the whole of your balance would be BONUS until WR was met. No 10% increments into cash as you go or split-funds like you get in the 'Fairpay' bonus system some MG's have; suddenly upon clearing WR all your balance would revert to CASH and become withdrawable notwithstanding max w/d limits if applicable to that particular type of bonus.

This is what bugs me here - I can't see, unless Tropez have made it possible with nefarious intent, how you could facilitate an attempted w/d when only bonus funds are in play. The cashier will tell you to p!ss off as there is '0' available to w/d.

 

[Nifty29]

Out of interest Nifty, does the cashier of the PTs you played at allow a w/d before wrs are met or are the 2 things disassociated?

Good question.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer, primarily because I have NEVER EVER attempted to withdraw without being 100% certain that my WR was completed.....which IMO is just plain common sense.

So, I really don't know.

It appears there may be some operator-dependent options for cashier setups. The PT casinos I use have a WR/bonus tab where it tells me precisely where I stand with my bonus. It may be that others do not have this function....someone would need to check out Tropez to confirm.

I personally think that Tropez and their terms stink.....which is why, as a (reasonably) responsible adult, I choose to avoid them, however lucrative their boni might be.

 

[chuchu59]

Good question.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer, primarily because I have NEVER EVER attempted to withdraw without being 100% certain that my WR was completed.....which IMO is just plain common sense.

So, I really don't know.

It appears there may be some operator-dependent options for cashier setups. The PT casinos I use have a WR/bonus tab where it tells me precisely where I stand with my bonus. It may be that others do not have this function....someone would need to check out Tropez to confirm.

I personally think that Tropez and their terms stink.....which is why, as a (reasonably) responsible adult, I choose to avoid them, however lucrative their boni might be.

Thanks Nifty. I thought that might be so but if the cashier normally does not permit a cashout before wagering is complete who disabled that function? I haven't had access to PT for quite awhile but I do recall ie more than 5 years agothe cashier does not allow any attempts to withdraw before wagering is complete. If Tropez or Plex for that matter had colluded with PT and disabled the function in the cashier and then inserted these terms I would be calling for all of their heads. I am purely speculating though so if more players could share their experiences on the wagering issue so much the better.

 

[Temperance Fox]

Seems to be a ghost. People talking about old experiences of years ago (Glacial Era ?), others supposing (Socrates?) or that have to go and see ,maybe reinstalling...(how many?)

I frequently play at the most known PLT casinos.

I thought that might be so but if [SUP]the cashier normally does not permit a cashout before wagering is complete[/SUP]

You thought right

 

[chuchu59]

Seems to be a ghost. People talking about old experiences of years ago (Glacial Era ?), others supposing (Socrates?) or that have to go and see ,maybe reinstalling...(how many?)

I frequently play at the most known PLT casinos.



You thought right

Ya right. I shall be haunting you Foxie but wait till Halloween to do so. Actually, after PT was listed publicly they did not accept players from some jurisdictions and suddenly I could not log into any of the PTs including Betfred.

If you state my line of thinking is correct then the disabling of the function ie not allowing w/ds before completion of wagering seems to be a purposeful act. If so, it makes no sense as its purely a trap for the unawares through the insertion of the term. If the accredited PTs still retain this function players should be up in arms against the crooks.

 

[dunover]

We need some input from the OP before we get any deeper into this. One, because it appears the general consensus is that you can't facilitate a w/d when funds are bonus-locked and two, IF the OP can prove that Tropez have somehow bypassed this or use a different banking portal that allows this then they are roguish in act and intent.

The third possibility is that the simple act of attempting a w/d at Tropez knowing you haven't cleared WR is flagged on their system when it bounces immediately as you do it, and they are being opportunist in having a term that that then gives them carte blanche to keep your funds, whereas other decent casinos would simply leave your account alone and let you play until you meet WR or bust out.

So, out of 3 scenarios, two involve roguish behaviour and one means the OP isn't quite furnishing us with all the facts. But the fact that Tropez even have that term to start with does make me suspicious and on balance thus far I'd lean towards the OP even though he didn't act with due diligence and check his bonus balance first.

 

[vinylweatherman]

What seems to make this look more rogue is that the OP says he can no longer view his transactions. It implies that the casino are trying to hide something, perhaps proof that WR HAD been completed.

Any experienced and knowledgeable player would KNOW that Tropez = Trouble, but the problem is that many rogues do their best "black hat" SEO so as to push the better operations off the search results, and many affiliate sites offer bogus ratings and reviews, often listing rogue casinos as their "Number one pick".

Knowing your rogues also helps in judging the ethics of any affiliate site. If their "top picks" table is stuffed with the Virtual group bottom feeders, then nothing on that site has any credibility. Newbies are often fooled by this tactic. The rogues get their listings by paying very high commissions to get promoted, to affiliate webmasters who care more about the money than the reputation of their site.

A weakness in the CM rogue pit system exists, and this is that a rogue operator can use the "no can do" card as a "stay out of the pit" card as it usually needs the evidence from a PAB or three to determine that a casino is deliberately behaving in a rogue fashion.

Casinos on the "no can do" list should therefore be avoided unless you have been thorough with the research. It is hard to tell which "no can do" is simply using it as a means to keep their wrongdoing secret, and which are good operations, but are overly cautious about the data protection act, which most use as their reason for not being able to discuss cases.

 

[chuchu59]

There is a new industry that is flourishing in China. For a fee, they can delete most online information in popular forums and some search engines. It has been very effective in China where some top officials have adverse publicity on them deleted. I hope this wont happen to other places and that these forums/search engines have enough security to fend them off otherwise the rogues will gladly pay for the services and continue with their evil ways.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There is a new industry that is flourishing in China. For a fee, they can delete most online information in popular forums and some search engines. It has been very effective in China where some top officials have adverse publicity on them deleted. I hope this wont happen to other places and that these forums/search engines have enough security to fend them off otherwise the rogues will gladly pay for the services and continue with their evil ways.

Maybe they haven't though of it yet. One problem is that in most countries this would be a criminal matter (hacking), and even paying someone else to do it would be just as bad. I can't see too many rogues resorting to this as they (owners and managers) could end up going to jail if they get caught.

I think it would get noticed if a negative thread on here was hacked out of existence, and the prime suspect would be the casino it was about.

What we see at the moment is "black hat SEO" being used to bury any negative information, which is not something anyone is likely to go to jail over (unless it involves the hacking of other peoples' sites in order to inject content).

 

[Temperance Fox]

Anyway , Tropez locked player's account and this isn' t good. To be honest, I think they don't want player checks and find something irregular. This is unfair. Nobody thinks is the case to inform Playtech ? I know it's only the provider but they cannot ignore such kind of behaviours .At least it's a bad advertisment also for their company. Am I wrong?

 

[dunover]

Anyway , Tropez locked player's account and this isn' t good. To be honest, I think they don't want player checks and find something irregular. This is unfair. Nobody thinks is the case to inform Playtech ? I know it's only the provider but they cannot ignore such kind of behaviours .At least it's a bad advertisment also for their company. Am I wrong?

I think Playtech are well past the point of no return when it comes to association with rogue casinos and slow payout sites etc. The fact that they have supplied big and honest sites like PP and Boyle with software will somewhat insulate them from the need to act.

 

[Temperance Fox]

You're right, but if people begin to complain about unfair PLT casino - 1) confused terms, 2)slow payments,3)locked accounts 4) not answering and so on, they have to take position.

All I can do, is not to play at Europatner.But I'm one, if we are many all over the world, it could make the difference.

 

[Playforfun]

I dont think so. and I know.

I can attest that in tropez group you could have withdrew even before wagering is done. there is only a mesasge that bonus will be deleted.

They always used to send an email, "sorry sir, you have not played enough you have XXX to wager"

that was their habit for years, and i am actually surprised to hear this case. maybe he angered them in other ways too.

OR it was a second time to withdrew after first email....

We need some input from the OP before we get any deeper into this. One, because it appears the general consensus is that you can't facilitate a w/d when funds are bonus-locked and two, IF the OP can prove that Tropez have somehow bypassed this or use a different banking portal that allows this then they are roguish in act and intent.

The third possibility is that the simple act of attempting a w/d at Tropez knowing you haven't cleared WR is flagged on their system when it bounces immediately as you do it, and they are being opportunist in having a term that that then gives them carte blanche to keep your funds, whereas other decent casinos would simply leave your account alone and let you play until you meet WR or bust out.

So, out of 3 scenarios, two involve roguish behaviour and one means the OP isn't quite furnishing us with all the facts. But the fact that Tropez even have that term to start with does make me suspicious and on balance thus far I'd lean towards the OP even though he didn't act with due diligence and check his bonus balance first.

 

[Mouche12]

I dont think so. and I know.

I can attest that in tropez group you could have withdrew even before wagering is done. there is only a mesasge that bonus will be deleted.

They always used to send an email, "sorry sir, you have not played enough you have XXX to wager"

that was their habit for years, and i am actually surprised to hear this case. maybe he angered them in other ways too.

OR it was a second time to withdrew after first email....

That was also the OP's account of what happened at Casino Plex - same debacle as with Casino Tropez - there was just a message that the bonus would be deleted, hence none of the player's winnings.