betfair bonus confiscation

[Roar]

Originally Posted by lauram

Ok I know this is going to sound like a dumb blonde question. (yes im blonde)
How do you use a bot in a casino. Wouldnt that casino pick it up right away that your using one.

MG Casinos hand you the 'bot' on a silver platter and beg you to play with it on their games.

Other SW Casinos (if not all) give you a 'bot' such as a Slots auto play.

A BJ 'bot' needs to reference a strategy card so requires a little more intuition.

Apart from the LIVE Casinos ALL of the other online Casinos use a 'bot' to play the dealers cards. So 'bot' play is positively common place online.

A Casino may point to your 7 hours of studious and perfect BJ play at $1 per hand and declare strong circumstantial evidence of mechanical finger-prints.

There is speculation within online Poker community that Casinos can detect and 'see' the bot present on your desk-top. The technical aspect of this remains beyond moi.

If my competitor uses a 'bot' then I am more inclined to use a 'bot' if winning is a principle objective. Since ALL online Casinos use a 'bot' to assist their play then I am inclined to use a 'bot' whenever, wherever and however I can since winning for me remains a priority.

But remember, a 'bot' can not sprinkle fairy dust in spite of claims to the contrary by various 'bot' playing online Casinos.

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[Jufo]

Originally Posted by Roar

There is speculation within online Poker community that Casinos can detect and 'see' the bot present on your desk-top. The technical aspect of this remains beyond moi.

Not specifically related to bots but I have heard that casino softwares can take screenshots of your desktop (of course without telling you) in the same manner as you can take screenshots. Does anybody know if this is true or a legend?

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by Jufo

Not specifically related to bots but I have heard that casino softwares can take screenshots of your desktop (of course without telling you) in the same manner as you can take screenshots. Does anybody know if this is true or a legend?

I would say that was illegal and definately an invasion of privacy. People could have anything on their desktop and its not open for casinos to take pictures. I better go do the dishes incase they have a probe in my kitchen

[frafi]

If the casino is downloaded and installed than they have a windows api function to do a screenshot.

To prevent this the bot could run as a windows process.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by frafi

If the casino is downloaded and installed than they have a windows api function to do a screenshot.

To prevent this the bot could run as a windows process.

The software could also check for known bots running as tasks, so if they know of a specific Chartwell Blackjack bot, they look for it running in the task list. Chartwell, however, is a non-download casino, so I am wondering how they manage to PROVE that a bot application is running the game, and not the player.

The only casino bot I am currently aware of is one for 888.com, which would also work on it's white labels, such as Reef Club and Lucky Ace, and plays their Blackjack. It is of considerable use in the regular Blackjack tournaments, although can obviously be used to "abuse" their sign-up boni as well.
If others have been developed, they are probably "word of mouth" on the bonus whoring websites, not wanting to draw too much attention to their existence until those in the know have filled their wallets with the early profits. They will then be flogged to the masses to squeeze every last penny from them.

If Chartwell cannot PROVE a bot was used in this case, they should pay up.
What is interesting is that this argument has developed into one about bots, and seems to miss this crucial element of the story (even if from another player in another post):-

On April 23rd I registered at Betfair Casino with a coupon code which entitled me to a 250GBP deposit bonus. I made a deposit of 246 and received a 246 GBP bonus. After clearing the wagering requirement I received a email from betfair support that I had 'abused' the promotion and the bonus had been taken away from my account. Since I have been playing with a lot of big bets (1 bet of 492, 1 bet of 984, and a lot of bets varying from 3 (the majority) till 100) I think it's ridiculous I am being treated here as a 'bonus abuser'.

This implies the good old fashioned strategy for clearing a 100% bonus on Blackjack.

1) Bet entire balance on first bet (£492), and win.
2) Repeat 1) but with whole £984 - win again.
3) Switch to the grind strategy to clear WR (£3 bets mentioned)
4) Get a little impatient and fire off a few bigger bets, perhaps up to £100

It is highly likely this is what got security interested in these accounts, and I am wondering why they decided to use the "bot accusation" rather than plain old "promotional abuse" as they could have done with their pretty wide ranging term that seems to cover any strategy designed to maximise winnings, rather than lengthen play on a variety of games.

[Komodo]

Originally Posted by GaryWatson

I would say that was illegal and definately an invasion of privacy. People could have anything on their desktop and its not open for casinos to take pictures. I better go do the dishes incase they have a probe in my kitchen

Illegal or not, they still do it. Almost any casino and poker site nowadays is full of spyware.

[Komodo]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

This implies the good old fashioned strategy for clearing a 100% bonus on Blackjack.

1) Bet entire balance on first bet (£492), and win.
2) Repeat 1) but with whole £984 - win again.
3) Switch to the grind strategy to clear WR (£3 bets mentioned)
4) Get a little impatient and fire off a few bigger bets, perhaps up to £100

It is highly likely this is what got security interested in these accounts, and I am wondering why they decided to use the "bot accusation" rather than plain old "promotional abuse" as they could have done with their pretty wide ranging term that seems to cover any strategy designed to maximise winnings, rather than lengthen play on a variety of games.

Im no BJ expert, but to bet entire balance in BJ where you migth need to double or split seems just retarded to me.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by Komodo

Illegal or not, they still do it. Almost any casino and poker site nowadays is full of spyware.

I think you're right, and specifically, I suspect BetFair in the 'bot' case used similar technology to confidently declare an offending 'bot' had breached their dubious 'bot' pohibition T+Cs.

The problem emerging for BetFair is the prospect of fronting up to the Maltese LGA and explaining their modus operandi. If it is found that BetFair have illegally and unlawfully accessed the players pc then the confiscation of the bonus becomes a trifle inconsequential in the broader scheme of things.

My guess is if affected players persist with a complaint to the Maltese LGA then I believe they will prevail long before a full evidential hearing sees the light of day. BetFair won't front the LGA with a flimsy play log history (even if they could produce a play log history) and I can't imagine them declaring "we use spy-ware on every players pc."

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[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Komodo

Im no BJ expert, but to bet entire balance in BJ where you migth need to double or split seems just retarded to me.

True, but the aim of the strategy is to capitalise on a bonus, not achieve optimum strategy for the hand in play. A double option would be ignored, but a bad deal that would normally be an obvious split would have to be played without one, and this could well change a good winning chance into a losing one. This would be the case where a split can be played against a shaky dealer up card, but not splitting meant having to hit on a hard hand such as a 12 or 14, with the danger of getting a high card and busting. The leverage supplied long term by the bonus money outweighs the additional risk due to forced non-optimal strategy, but not the risk that this is so "bleedin obvious" to the casino risk department that they are likely to go looking for reasons not to pay if simple "bonus abuse" is not enough - hence the "bot" excuse is presented as additional evidence.

If Betfair have some kind of bot seeking software running, someone will one day find it, and they will be busted for it. With Chartwell being a non-download casino, they can't hide any bot seeking software in the casino client, and it should be easier to find.

I suspect their technology is nothing more than looking at hand histories, which means they have to be lying when they tell players under suspicion (or who suspect the casino of cheating) that it is not possible to get hold of such hand histories.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I suspect their technology is nothing more than looking at hand histories, which means they have to be lying when they tell players under suspicion (or who suspect the casino of cheating) that it is not possible to get hold of such hand histories.

Well, here's a copy then of the lie:

"Dear XXX,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Further to your query below, please be advised that
we cannot send you your game histories in the
casino.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any
further enquiries.

Kind regards,

Josef Baldacchino

Betfair helpdesk"

This is utterly unacceptable. The software cheated the player.

On the player attempting to gather evidence to have the play logs reviewed by an independent auditor, BetFair have closed up shop.

Any reasonable and objective thinking person would have to entertain the view that BetFair:

1. have indeed got the play logs

2. have inspected the play logs and know something is amiss

3. are battering down the hatches hoping all this will go away (soon).

This is a disgraceful chapter in BetFair history from a former impeccable and distinguished gaming establishment of the highest order.

Still no sign of Red Army. I wonder why.

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