XXLclub casino disappears with players' money!

[tristan727]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

It does not matter if you are on the banned list

What exactly is this 'banned list' then? As far as I can make it, not one player is ever informed by Playtech that they are on any list...so we don't even know if it is considered a 'banned' list - could be simply a list where they advise casino's to consider their options, as the player made a few bucks somewhere. Which would explain why the OP still gets bonuses from places like Bet365 - they decided it was still worthwhile pursuing their relationship commercially.

Of course, it goes almost without saying - that any reputable casino would honour a customer's withdrawal, regardless of whether a bonus had been granted in error or not - unless it was an absolutely crystal-clear error of a large magnitude, & where the customer had been pre-informed. The idea that someone representing a casino can post here in indignant defence of taking away, not only a bonus - but the customer's winnings - leaves me stunned. This is not to be congratulated, as some posters here are claiming it should be, since 'any communication is better than none' apparently. I would rather they ran away & hid in shame instead, or reconsidered in the light of people's opinions here - rather than claiming said opinions must make these people bonus abusers as well.

[sweiger]

Originally Posted by chuchu59

Come on, give the guy a break.

I've been giving Frank a break for almost 4 months now. I think I'm entitled to make a small sarcastic remark.

[vinylweatherman]

How can Frank determine a player will not come back after winning from the SUB and withdrawing? You can only KNOW that after some time when the player never deposits again.
If the problem is down to players taking ONLY the sign-up bonuses at many casinos, well you have the SPAM to blame for that. I receive countless offers EVERY DAY for this casino or that casino, all quoting large welcome bonuses. Compare this with what you are offered for being an existing player, usually F*** all! Is is any wonder players move from casino to casino.
Players will stick around if loyalty bonuses or comps are CLEARLY better than the SUB, and there is a CLEAR progression in the quality of the offers the longer a player stays with the casino.
Sign-up bonuses need to return to what they were intended for, a chance to test the software on your machine before deciding whether to stay loyal. The only true test of a casino's quality comes after the first successful withdrawal, only then do players know whether the process is simple, or whether they are messed around, paid by check when they want eWallet, have to wait longer than stated, or even the common one where they are asked for documents and have to constantly badger CS for progress because they are messed around with "yes, we got 'em - no we didn't, yes we did, they're not clear...etc.."
Being messed around at the first withdrawal will make a player go away after just one deposit, and so will being messed around over the SUB - they will take that as a warning sign the casino has them on some kind of negative list and will not want to risk a second deposit win or lose.

A player who simply takes the SUB's as they flood uncontrollably past their spam filters but does not try to hide this by using fake names and/or details is simply a consumer getting the best deal. IF Playtech find this a problem then there needs to be a clear term limiting players to a set number of SUB offers across the entire Playtech platform, such that they can know in advance the stage at which they are no longer eligible for further routine SUB offers.

Playtech already have a diminishing reputation due to the number of problems related to Playtech casinos, which are way out of line with their counterparts on other platforms (with the exception of the RTG rogues).

For those who still believe the casino "ran with the money", let us not forget that for many weeks Frank failed to mention that "bonus abuse" had anything to do with it, this has only recently been cited as the reason why a couple of players had not been paid. Are we to believe the operators cannot tell the difference between a "technical issue" and a player they are looking to not pay due to "bonus abuse".

What, exactly, IS this "technical issue with the processor". Processors who are in the business of making these transactions will have staff trained to fix such issues in a very short space of time and continue normal operation. I don't believe this issue was in the slightest a "technical" one. I believe it was more of a contractual or legal one. Either the processor bailed out and ran, went belly up, or was legally prohibited from carrying out their contractual duties. It is misleading to refer to such issues as merely technical, as this implies they are going to be resolved very quickly within the existing framework.

This lack of clarity and manipulation of language is what has made it look like the casino has "done a runner". Once the trust has been damaged in this way, there is nothing to make players believe that the recent statements are any more truthful and complete as the initial ones were (and not, as it turned out). The proof will be out next year. Players will either all be paid during January as indicated, or there will be yet another set of excuses in February as to why there is a further delay - and if this happens there is little chance of this casino continuing to compete in the marketplace.

[XXLClubCasino]

vinylweatherman

I mostly agree with your post.

Only a couple of additional information. When we where forced to make structural changes due to new Russian law changes we had to change or complete company structure including using different payment processors or switching to or own. Opening a new Neteller account is now more difficult than ever, i took alone 2 months to have all notarial documents ready. This was reference as a technical problem what would have been a better suitable explanation to the players I don't know. I'm not trying to manipulate anyone here and keeping communication open here at CM should be proof enough!

Today we have processed 6 payments and I hope to make all payments before xmas, I need all documents and all neteller or bank details to be able to process the payments.

Problematic withdrawals might take a little longer as I need to request the exact reason for the players that have been banned. If fraud is involved the winnings will be cut and the initial deposit refunded. If the player is "only" flagged as bonus seeker in our casino we will pay out the winnings.

[sweiger]

Payment recieved today to my neteller account.
This payment was a pending withdrawal from 16/9. I am still owed $204 which XXL's former payment processor claims have been paid to neteller ($204), but the funds never arrived. I hope XXL will sort that out too in a reasonable time frame.

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

Problematic withdrawals might take a little longer as I need to request the exact reason for the players that have been banned. If fraud is involved the winnings will be cut and the initial deposit refunded. If the player is "only" flagged as bonus seeker in our casino we will pay out the winnings.

That sounds like good news for nottsccole. I would assume that it's more or less easy to eliminate fraud by simply verifying whatever form of identification is sent to you is a legitimate ID number?

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by sweiger

I've been giving Frank a break for almost 4 months now. I think I'm entitled to make a small sarcastic remark.

Hi Sweiger,

My apologies but the remark was directed at all players in general. Frank's apparent disappearance from the scene has obviously not served him well but now that it seems that he is trying to pay out give him some time instead of bashing him which I doubt serves any useful purpose. We will only scare them away and representation at this forum will dwindle.

[Mousey]

Frank, thank you for entering the 'hornet's nest' here. Thank you for continuing to participate in discussion.

However!

If players are on a 'banned' (bad player, bonus abuser, whatever) list at Playtech, why are they even allowed to set up a new account at a Playtech? Why doesn't the software lock them out? Fraudsters I understand... they use different names, etc., and otherwise intentionally attempt to cloak their identity. But regular players who are on this 'secret list' shouldn't be called to task after opening an account, depositing, being given a bonus by the casino, and then only after winning and attempting to cash out. If the player loses, I doubt anything is ever said.

A player on the 'bad player' list shouldn't receive swarms of emails (most of them to his email address associated with his casino account) offering juicy sign up bonuses at other Playtech and sister casinos, as has already been mentioned by Vinyl. And I don't single out XXL for this type of thing... other casinos do it too -- that doesn't make it fair, or acceptable, or right.

[sweiger]

My other withdrawal $204 was paid today. I'm glad things was sorted out eventually, and I hope other players also recieve what they're owed.

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by Mousey

If players are on a 'banned' (bad player, bonus abuser, whatever) list at Playtech, why are they even allowed to set up a new account at a Playtech?

If players signup with new name and or clear their PC before signing up it takes a couple of minutes to detect the player. Typically bonus abuser will deposit/play and withdraw within 5-10 minutes and so manage to fall under the radar.

But regular players who are on this 'secret list' shouldn't be called to task after opening an account, depositing, being given a bonus by the casino, and then only after winning and attempting to cash out. If the player loses, I doubt anything is ever said.

Their accounts are not blocked after the players win but as soon as the new signups are manually reviewed. This can happen during play but the player account will only be closed after the player signout. We can't close players' account that are currently playing. Bonus abuser have a very typical playing pattern and we really can separate both type of new players. I could give you the exact formula but for obvious reason I've no interest to divulge it.

A player on the 'bad player' list shouldn't receive swarms of emails (most of them to his email address associated with his casino account) offering juicy sign up bonuses at other Playtech and sister casinos, as has already been mentioned by Vinyl. And I don't single out XXL for this type of thing... other casinos do it too -- that doesn't make it fair, or acceptable, or right.

We have never send spam to any player. Once a player account is black listed he won't receive any promotional email anymore. As we have no sister casino we also won't send any promotional emails to players that didn't sign in our casino. The platform wide (playtech blacklist) list can only be triggered after a player signup, typically players will give slightly different credential and therefore the account needs to be manually double checked by the fraud team before account closure, by that time the well trained bonus abuser will already have open, deposit, play and place the withdrawal