XXLclub casino disappears with players' money!

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

I didn't really wanted to raise the bonus abuser issues in the same thread so not to change the subject of this thread and focus on paying the players we owe money to.

Also I feel that it was worse mentioning and it's not a coincidence that the biggest complain in the forum are coming not from our regular players but from new one time depositors one time forum posters that clearly abuse the welcome bonus from playtech casinos.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.

And let me reassure here that all players especially our loyal players will get paid no regular winnings will be confiscated and winnings will be paid in full.

You're right. You aren't stealing $.

You ARE however stealing £.

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino.

Then change your bonus instead of enforcing an obviously arbitrary clause. You say you are moving to a loyalty bonus and eliminating your signup bonus anyway. Considering you decided to disappear out of nowhere without advising your players or affiliates you might help your reputation (which is pretty damaged at this point) by fixing your outstanding complaints and then switching to your "safe" promotion, whatever that might be. The rest of us just see a casino that pulls a magical disappearing act and then makes accusations of bonus abusing towards the players that they owe payments and that sets off warning bells for very obvious reasons. It's nothing we haven't seen before by several other casinos that have gone under without paying their players. From a business perspective, I think it makes sense to pay all the outstanding players their full winnings prior to changing yourself over to whatever program you plan on using in the future.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

Since when does bonus HUNTING fall under abuse? If YOUR CASINO wants to offer a generous SUB, damn straight I'm going to take it. Whether or not I decide to keep playing at your casino after I've finished is UP TO ME, NOT you. Getting paid based solely on whether or not I "exhibit" bonus HUNTING behaviors is complete BS. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

You're the ones offering the bonuses, not the other way around. If you don't want to pay out winnings and cry "abuse", then quit offering bonuses!

If you want more loyal players, then offer a non-bonus-hunter|abuser-friendly loyalty program (read: generous comps based on extended play), and not such a "generous" signup bonus offer. To sum it up: reward a player more for their ongoing loyalty, not their new business.


I believe XXLClub and us CM members have had this exact same conversation in the past, and under the same circumstances (different players involved, of course). If I wasn't so tired, I'd find the thread.

The bottom line is, if a player has an advantage over the bonus, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT, NOT THEIRS. If they follow the T&C to the "T", PAY THEM. If they find a loophole, tough sh!t. PAY THEM and then close the loophole...ban them from FUTURE bonuses....but still, PAY THEM.


Also look at it from a different perspective. A millionaire decides to dress like a bum and go out and buy a new car (and pay cash for it). Where do you think he's going to purchase this car? Certainly not the car lots that treat him like crap (if they even wait on him)! He's going to buy a car from the lot that treats him with respect, not judging him by his looks.

Moral of the story: How many potentially loyal players have you burned by claiming bonus "abuse|hunting", and voiding their winnings? Think about it.

[hakapuku]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

This is a hypocricy! Bonuses at online casinos are what all this online gambling business is built on! All online casinos, also all playtech casinos, advertise their bonuses whatever way they can! There is no need to hunt for the bonuses: casinos hunt for players online offering them the bonuses! And when one comes across these bonuses and starts to play them- then ugly roguesters among the online casinos (not all of them, offcourse) prepare the trap for the online gambler. Let's say somebody played at one playtech casino ,named X, with the bonus and lost his 100 euro deposit. After some time he gets one more offer by email from the X casino's sister casino. He plays and loses 200 euro deposit. Meanwhile offerings from the playtech casinos keep coming. And the person deposits and deposits. Pay attention- casinos don't refuse the bonuses- they award it. So , let's say , after losing 600 euro at 5 playtech casinos this person deposits one more time , this time at XXLCLUB casino and...booom...he wins 700 euro! Now his total balance with playtech casinos is 100 euro plus!. The player is happy! And then he cashes out and the next day he gets an email informing him that he is a bonus abuser at several playtech casinos and he is a thief so he will not get his winnings in no way! "We are such a good casino that we are ready to pay your deposit back to you. Say thank you!". And now the total balance of that player with all playtech casinos is MINUS 600 euro!. Who is a real abuser and thief in this typical scenario? Casinos or a gambler who was seduced by thousands of bonus offers and then left with his pocket empty!???

P/S. Actually this case with XXLCLUBCASINO is not about bonus abuse or something - it is about casino that tries to run away with the players money. The fact that Xxl's rep tries to use the "bonus abuse" issue to justify (at least in part) this big stealing and disappearing act only proves what a bullshit this "bonus abuse" stuff is. In other words: claiming the bonus abuse is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by BBKPoker

Considering you decided to disappear out of nowhere without advising your players or affiliates you might help your reputation (which is pretty damaged at this point) by fixing your outstanding complaints and then switching to your "safe" promotion, whatever that might be.

I don't know were you read that we decided to disappear! All our players were informed that due to technical issues with the payment processor we couldn't proceed their payment at that time, dot.

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by winbig

Whether or not I decide to keep playing at your casino after I've finished is UP TO ME, NOT you. Getting paid based solely on whether or not I "exhibit" bonus HUNTING behaviors is complete BS. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

You're the ones offering the bonuses, not the other way around. If you don't want to pay out winnings and cry "abuse", then quit offering bonuses!

I believe XXLClub and us CM members have had this exact same conversation in the past, and under the same circumstances (different players involved, of course). If I wasn't so tired, I'd find the thread.

The bottom line is, if a player has an advantage over the bonus, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT, NOT THEIRS. If they follow the T&C to the "T", PAY THEM. If they find a loophole, tough sh!t. PAY THEM and then close the loophole...ban them from FUTURE bonuses....but still, PAY THEM.

Moral of the story: How many potentially loyal players have you burned by claiming bonus "abuse|hunting", and voiding their winnings? Think about it.

You say it yourself one should differentiate between 2 types of bonus abuse. The one player that will go under his same name and try to grab all 50 signup bonuses and the one that will signup under different names to the 50 playtech casinos cashing in the bonus and starting from the beginning with with more shield names.

The second type of abuser is IMO definitely fraud, while the first abuser type might be "legitimate" from the perspective of the player and can/should be accepted by the casino operators.

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by hakapuku

P/S. Actually this case with XXLCLUBCASINO is not about bonus abuse or something - it is about casino that tries to run away with the players money. The fact that Xxl's rep tries to use the "bonus abuse" issue to justify (at least in part) this big stealing and disappearing act only proves what a bullshit this "bonus abuse" stuff is. In other words: claiming the bonus abuse is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

We never attempted to disappear with player money! I don't know where this statement comes from. Further at no time I said we would not pay the couple of players that are labeled as bonus abusers out of the 14 pending withdrawals.

What is also clear to me is that the player posting here and that make the biggest negative posts are exactly the players that are abusing bonuses. I know it and they know it.

While most of the CM members are highly respectable some are just jumping on the thread to put additional pressure on the casino and try to cover their fraudulent activity hoping the casino rep will let them gateway so not to have the casino further have his name degraded in the forum.

Well this tactic is obvious to me and I will not succombe to this tactic. I'll pay all players that are not involved in fraud.

[sweiger]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

We never attempted to disappear with player money! ......
I'll pay all players that are not involved in fraud.

Yeah Frank, I bet you would rather owe us players our money for the rest of your life than cheat us

[chuchu59]

Come on, give the guy a break.

Frank, can you tell us approximately when you will be able to pay the players that are not involved in fraud against your casino. They have been owed their dues for quite some time so it will be expected that the time should be as short as possible.

[XXLClubCasino]

I'm paying first players right now, only through neteller or wire transfer at present time. So all players with pending withdrawals can drop me their neteller accounts or bank details.