XXLclub casino disappears with players' money!

[nottsccole]

Originally Posted by sdaddy

So why not just eliminate your problem by implementing the new bonus structure?

Addressing the issue by using subjective "bonus abuse" criteria to confiscate winnings, as done in these recent cases, is not going to look good in the eyes of many players.

Especially after disappearing for a few weeks and not responding to emails. For what it's worth, I am definitely not bonus banned. I talked to live chat at a casino I still play at regularly that is on playtech and requested a small deposit bonus and was able to get one with relative ease (they had a holiday promotion going on so good timing).

On a sidenote, I reread the message from the rep, and I need to make an apology to him because I misinterpreted what he was saying and I want to correct that. I thought he was saying he would see what could be done about sending my deposit to me, and he actually said I would "at least" get my deposit back and he would see what can be done about my winnings, so I feel much more positive about seeing my cashout. Apologies for that mistake, XXL rep, and for the tone I took because I thought you were saying nothing was going to get fixed instead of what on a reread seems like you are going to push for my cashout plus winnings to get processed.

I'll keep you guys posted on what happens with my cashout as I get more information.

[vinylweatherman]

It does not matter if you are on the banned list, they gave the bonus, and provided you met the terms and conditions, they must play you, and THEN ban you for further promotions.

I have seen their terms, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to "abuse" their bonus WITHOUT breaching the excluded games rule and placing a huge bet with your entire bankroll at the beginning of the game.

The rep has explained before that Playtech have absolutely NOTHING to do with the XXLClub situation, therefore any decision about payment also has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Playtech.

The rep has made an accusation here, and had better be able to back it up with evidence should this go to dispute, or it should be regarded as libel.

I have little confidence that this will all come right in the forseeable future, Timescales for this move have been repeatedly put back. Promises of 2 weeks were made early on, and it has now been three months, with the latest date nearly a month away.

While the rep says these "banned" players should have opted for a higher comps rate rather than bonuses, but was this option actually on offer at the time they played?

Since this casino's intended market is Russia, perhaps we should leave it that way, as they like it so much, and only play there if we are Russian.

[hakapuku]

I am afraid that this xxlclub has no intention to pay anybody. Look at their rep- he comes with accusations right from the start. And ,offcourse, he uses the most undefinable definition in this industry: bonus abuse. Anybody who wins with the bonus is a bonus abuser. We know that.

[hakapuku]

Originally Posted by nottsccole

I am owed £1804.

I sent a private message to XXLClub's rep.

I've been told repeatedly by customer service that I would be paid as soon as the technical problems with XXLClub are resolved. Although, their customer service has not responded to any of my emails in at least two weeks. The rep on this forum told me in a PM that I was on Playtech's bonus banned list. Now I have a few casino accounts, with Playtech, and I've gotten bonuses on more or less all of them, but I doubt that is true that I am completely banned, I get bonus offers frequently for my accounts on Bet365 and a few other sites as well.

Anyway, XXLClub's response was that because I apparently appear on this list, he would "try" to "at least" get me back my deposit. With the obvious implication that he would be thieving my winnings after they've already been delayed several weeks.

Not very reassuring. I'll let you know if I actually get paid, but until then I would definitely avoid the casino at all costs.

you must be paid in full! If you are banned from receiving bonuses at playtech casinos that doesn't mean that you are not eligible to receive the winnings from the bonuses that you have already received. It is absolute bullshit! As I told already, xxl club has no intention to pay , they are roguesters!

[phynqster]

It is very funny hearing the term bonus abuser, since I believe I came from the casino that coined that phrase. When we originally labeled players as bonus abusers, it was a way of identifying the “free chippers”, who would constantly beg for free chips and huge bonuses and were taking up the majority of the sales reps time. I than changed the term to “advantage player”, which is what we are talking about here. An advantage player is just that someone looking for an advantage. I can honestly say that yes I identified a number of those players including entire Countries (LOL), but made sure every one was paid!! Usually paid them very slowly, too frustrate them, but also to make sure their credit card cleared the bank before I was sending them what amounted to cash, and made them jump through hoops, hell I was an “Advantage Manager” hoping they would give in and just give up, but I felt they were taking advantage of me I would take advantage of them. After they were finally paid in full, that is when their accounts were closed to make sure it did not happen again. Also I want to point out I loved to encourage the bonuses that “advantage players” would take early in their history with us, because I could identify those players early and it was a lot easier paying $100.00 right than , than waiting for the player to become a regular than popping me for 5 or $10,000.00 one day. And that does happen if a casino does not monitor their players.

[XXLClubCasino]

I didn't really wanted to raise the bonus abuser issues in the same thread so not to change the subject of this thread and focus on paying the players we owe money to.

Also I feel that it was worse mentioning and it's not a coincidence that the biggest complain in the forum are coming not from our regular players but from new one time depositors one time forum posters that clearly abuse the welcome bonus from playtech casinos.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.

And let me reassure here that all players especially our loyal players will get paid no regular winnings will be confiscated and winnings will be paid in full.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

I didn't really wanted to raise the bonus abuser issues in the same thread so not to change the subject of this thread and focus on paying the players we owe money to.

Also I feel that it was worse mentioning and it's not a coincidence that the biggest complain in the forum are coming not from our regular players but from new one time depositors one time forum posters that clearly abuse the welcome bonus from playtech casinos.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.
And let me reassure here that all players especially our loyal players will get paid no regular winnings will be confiscated and winnings will be paid in full.

That all depends on how you define what is "abuse" and what is simply good playing style within the terms and conditions.

If a player bets all on a big bet that is in the list of excluded games, then grinds WR, that can be considered "bonus HUNTING", and would be a breach of your terms by playing an excluded game.

If, however, the player played only the games allowed with the bonus, but had a good run & the sense to withdraw while ahead, but having completed WR, then confiscation of winnings would be reneging on a valid bet, what is meant by "stealing" by the casino in this context.
If the bonuses are non-cashable as with many Playtech offerings, then the only way they can be manipulated is by placing a single large bet on a 50/50 game and grinding out WR if the bet wins.
If players open more than one account to take more bonuses than allowed, this would also be justification for removal of winnings, provided you can prove the case.
Many casinos confuse "bonus abuse" with skillful play, they are NOT the same, and any casino that voids winnings simply because a player played well, but within the terms of the offer, is "stealing", or reneging on a bet - something that in the days of the wild west in the USA would have got you shot!

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

That all depends on how you define what is "abuse" and what is simply good playing style within the terms and conditions.

If a player bets all on a big bet that is in the list of excluded games, then grinds WR, that can be considered "bonus HUNTING", and would be a breach of your terms by playing an excluded game.

If, however, the player played only the games allowed with the bonus, but had a good run & the sense to withdraw while ahead, but having completed WR, then confiscation of winnings would be reneging on a valid bet, what is meant by "stealing" by the casino in this context.
If the bonuses are non-cashable as with many Playtech offerings, then the only way they can be manipulated is by placing a single large bet on a 50/50 game and grinding out WR if the bet wins.
If players open more than one account to take more bonuses than allowed, this would also be justification for removal of winnings, provided you can prove the case.
Many casinos confuse "bonus abuse" with skillful play, they are NOT the same, and any casino that voids winnings simply because a player played well, but within the terms of the offer, is "stealing", or reneging on a bet - something that in the days of the wild west in the USA would have got you shot!

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

As all 50 or more playtech casinos all offers almost the same games the excuse given by most bonus abusers "I just wanted to test other games or another casino" is not a valid argument.

Frank,

If it can be proved that the player had opened multiple accounts and obtained more than 1 signup bonus at the same casino, I agree that this is 'bonus abuse' in the absolute sense and confiscation of winnings is understandable. However, if there is nothing in the Terms and Conditions stating that one is not eligible for a signup bonus even if he had obtained them from other Playtechs before, he is playing legitmately and once bets are placed, the player should be paid if he won. mind you, he could have lost just as easily. These are the players that casinos dont want but unless there is fraud involved the casino should pay and ban him if it thinks fit. Before the Playtech ban on HK players, I had played at nearly all Playtech casinos and gotten signup bonuses from all of them. There were a half a dozen where I won and never went back. Well, just didnt feel like I wanted to play there anymore. No other reasons.

I understand that many casinos have a gripe against these 'advantage players' as they erode your profit margins but at the same time almost all of them are more intent on attracting new players with 100% or more singup bonuses whereas the Comp ratio is a measly 1:1000 and even worse for MG casinos due to their EZ bonus system. I hope that you will understand that while you are uncomfortable with paying these guys, the damage to reputation will be far worse especially since you are now geared more towards player retention. Just pay them, suffer the loss in the short term and start all over again.

[sdaddy]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

For me bonus abusing start when players signups in a casino for the only purpose of getting the generous welcome bonus thus giving the player a clear edge over the casino. No skillful play is required it's simply mathematical outcomes, then move to the next casino and so on. Those players have absolute no interest in risking their funds or are playing for the entertainment, they will therefore never make a second or third deposit in the same casino. After either busting out after 3-4 big bets or meeting the WR they directly will cash out and move to the next casino. Some players will open multiple accounts with fake names borrowed from friends and play the same game exactly the same way with another account. Nothing new here this is classical bonus abusing and very easy to spot and prove.

Well if bonus abusing by your players is very easy to spot, then it should be easy to write specific rules which explain what type of play is prohibited. You don't like players making big bets after receiving the bonus? Then put in a rule saying bets over a certain amount, relative to the original deposit, are prohibited. You don't like players who just wager the minimum wagering requirement? Then you need to increase your WRs.

You even said yourself that you are in the process of implementing a new bonus structure to address the problem. You would do much better to focus your efforts there. What doesn't sit well with players is when a casino resorts to an ambiguous bonus abuse policy curtail the type of play it deems undesirable. It sends a message that the casino will not be up front with its players about how it intends to treat them.

By the way we are not stealing any $ from any account as long as we refund a player deposit. The winnings might get confiscated as they were won in brake of our T&C. The word stealing is not appropriate in this relation.

I think many players would beg to differ on this point. Do you also refund the deposits of identified bonus abusers who lose? I doubt it. So essentially you're taking a group of players and voiding all their winning bets but accepting the losing ones. That is a very punitive and unfair action.