Time-out

[gdbruyck]

If, while playing online roulette, there happens to be a time-out or disconnection with the software, the player has to log in again.

This is very discouraging (especially at the moment when the player has increased his bet considerably) because one has to log in again and this obstructs one's strategy because the RNG is reseeded and jumps to a different point in its sequence. I would like to ask whether this problem occurs with flash versions (instant play) only and not with download versions? Or can this problem occur with both versions?

Can such a disconnection be caused deliberately by the casino itself (e.g., when the player wins 'to much')?

I have the last nine years played roulette (download versions) in several online casinos and this has NEVER happened.

Recently however I played at BetVoyager and for the first time I was confronted with this problem. What strikes me, is that this disconnection seems to happen very oft at that casino! I found these comments on internet (in English and German):

"There are some problems with this casino at times. You can get syncerrors. Or time outs."

"I have been playing at betvoyager, the even chances casino, 6 days ago. Both blackJack and Roulette. About 5-10 times an hour my game gets cut off, every time after I placed a bet, before getting my cards dealt. I get an error message stating there is a synchronisation error."

"habe heute eine nicht so schöne erfahrung mit betvoyager gemacht es kam zu einem sync error - system absturz das heisst die kugel läuft und läuft .... und es passiert nichts." [I had today a not so nice experience with betvoyager there was a sync error, that is, the roulette ball just keeps spinning .... and nothing happens.]

"Das habe ich heute auch gehabt. Kugel läuft endlos." [I've had this today, also. The roulette ball spins endlessly.]

"das habe ich schon öfter erlebt." [I have experienced that more than once]

[KasinoKing]

This is very discouraging (especially at the moment when the player has increased his bet considerably) because one has to log in again and this obstructs one's strategy because the RNG is reseeded and jumps to a different point in its sequence. I would like to ask whether this problem occurs with flash versions (instant play) only and not with download versions? Or can this problem occur with both versions?

Sorry, but
So you're saying the RNG is not actually random and so you can predict what the next numbers will be?
WOW! Are you a millionaire yet?
And which casino/software is this?

KK

[gdbruyck]

Sorry, but
So you're saying the RNG is not actually random and so you can predict what the next numbers will be?
WOW! Are you a millionaire yet?
And which casino/software is this?

KK

A "random number generator" based solely on deterministic computation cannot be regarded as a "true" random number generator, since its output is inherently predictable. John von Neumann famously said "Anyone who uses arithmetic methods to produce random numbers is in a state of sin." - Wikipedia (Random number generation).

The algorithm is not a true rng. It is widely known to to exhibit recurrsion. And, when, after having been disconnected, you log in again, the rng also starts again with a new starting figure.

BetVoyager (powered by Gamesys N.V) uses proprietary software. The casino offers no download software.

[maxd]

What you say is basically true as far as it goes, though Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source, but RNGs have gone way past simple algorithmic methods. Several sources of reliably random data can be used to drive those algorithms and produce near-true random results over massive data samples.

Check the Search feature on the forums page. There have been many extended discussions on the RNG topic. Grandmaster is a good guy to chat with about such things since he's both knowledgeable and willing (last time I asked ).

Sounds like what you're really talking about though is software issues between client and server and that's a whole other kettle of fish.

[gdbruyck]

What you say is basically true as far as it goes, though Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source, but RNGs have gone way past simple algorithmic methods. Several sources of reliably random data can be used to drive those algorithms and produce near-true random results over massive data samples.

Indeed:
A cryptographic PRNG must be seeded with unpredictable data such as mouse movements or keys pressed at random by the user. - http://www.openssl.org/docs/crypto/rand.html

However:

While these physical activities may look random, their randomness cannot be proven, and they run the risk of generating poor entropy (or no entropy) if the sampled physical activity is dormant or repetitive. There are several potential security vulnerabilities when using such physical activities. For example, in networked applications such as browsers, the application traffic between a client and server effectively publishes the locations and sequence of the client's mouse-events. Similarly, users may enable "snap-to" options that center the mouse pointer in the center of the button to be pressed and make the click locations predictable. As a result, the entropy from mouse movements in these environments could be far less than an RNG designer expected.

http://www.via.com.tw/en/initiatives...k/hardware.jsp

[KasinoKing]

A "random number generator" based solely on deterministic computation cannot be regarded as a "true" random number generator, since its output is inherently predictable. John von Neumann famously said "Anyone who uses arithmetic methods to produce random numbers is in a state of sin." - Wikipedia (Random number generation).

The algorithm is not a true rng. It is widely known to to exhibit recurrsion. And, when, after having been disconnected, you log in again, the rng also starts again with a new starting figure.

BetVoyager (powered by Gamesys N.V) uses proprietary software. The casino offers no download software.

Yeah, I know about all that. (Know doesn't necessarily mean understand! ).
But you haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it again with just 1 word changed:

So you're saying the RNG is not truly random and so you can predict what the next numbers will be?

KK

[gdbruyck]

So you're saying the RNG is not truly random and so you can predict what the next numbers will be?

KK

I haven't said that I can predict what the next numbers will be. However, I found this statement at http://www.24gambling.net/roulette/w...strategy-4588/

"[T]he fouroulette system can predict four numbers to come out 70 percent of the time."

[gdbruyck]

No matter how well programmed, no computer (online roulette RNG) can ever be completely random. There is no way to compute the sheer number of variables involved - causing random bounces - when a dealer spins a ball... there are simply too many.

[love2winalot]

Hiya; I play at betVoyager, and I play Roulette. If you have never been disconnected, or had the ball just keep spinning and never drop off into a number, or gotten an Error message, or time out message before, THEN YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION. I, and most others, have had this happen at different casino's. The Bet size had nothing to do with it.

As far as the RNG being Re-Set when you get disconnected, this has NO Affect at all as far as Roulette is concerned. You are ending a spin at a random point, and starting the next spin at a random point.

Here is the Proof. I play 111 spins per set. I try to play them all at one time, "about 1 hour", to do so. More times than not, i have to stop at spin 26, or spin 78, or spin 102, and then finish up next time i log in. Sometimes, i end up logging out/logging back in, three or four times in the same 111 spin set. I document everything. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE END RESULT.

BetVoyager is different than most casino's. It will go down for maintenance, You will get the, "Your session has expired" messages, you will get, "Updating 1 of 6, and then dissconnected, or some other message. This is fixed by downloading the casino again, or by logging into it thru the main site at betCruise, then into betVoyager.

I have made thousands of $$ there, and it ends up in my click2pay acct: within 24 hours, "or sooner", every time. If someone thinks the casino, "Any casino", will disconnect a player in order to stop them from winning on a larger bet, then would it not be a good idea, after you log back in, TO CHANGE YOUR BET?......

[winbig]

"[T]he fouroulette system can predict four numbers to come out 70 percent of the time."

And you believe that?

I'm sure it's possible...once you've spun for at least 1m+ rounds..

Oh, and lest we not forget:

The spin is _over_ once the you click "spin" and the server receives that packet. It's not like it picks up where you left off and completes the round once you re-connect. There's no "half and half" like you're describing. When you reconnect, it simply plays out the already-decided result, as long as the server acknowledges that you clicked "spin."