RTG and RTP - the official word

[4 of a kind]

I think there could be some changes on the horizon with online regulation.

The RTP report that Simmo linked us to earlier here was done by TST which was actually acquired by Gaming Laboratories Int. on May 4th, (which you could read all about on their web site.) I believe this acquisition was done to help strengthen GLI. By obtaining the additional resources held by TST, GLI is posturing themselves to become the major player when real regulation is imposed by real regulators. They already have the technology available to regulate online casinos in real time, as explained in my previous post here. Unfortunately the present fraud regulators /software providers will have none of that. (Where’s Dogears when you need him)

This is posted on GLI / TST’s Web Site:

With the growing trend in Europe to regulate iGaming on a country-by-country basis, regulators need a company they can rely on to provide the best testing services possible.

They no doubt are anticipating this to come about since in fact European Countries are presently in talks about real regulation. I’m also certain they hope the USA will eventually pass legislation and then also come on board.

The EU countries that legalized online gaming gave all these 3rd world countries plenty of time to get their act together and clean it up. Instead they brought online gaming to an all time low. I do understand there are some good and honest operators out there, but my trust and faith in other people instead of fact when it comes to my money, comes with a line in the sand.

I only hope my visions are correct here, and maybe soon we’ll be able to read every month like land casinos what the real RTP’s are.

What doesn’t surprise me (well maybe a little) is GLI openly admitting that online casino operators / software providers have the power to run tampered versions of games. Which confirms what I’ve been saying all along - with no regulation and no regulation enforcement why bother even playing?

In this post I’m only talking about cheating RTP’s, excluding all the other crap taking place online. Online gaming is in dire straits and never needed regulation more then it does now. People with power in this industry (advocates and affiliates) should be busy using their clout pushing regulation and stop shopping for bonuses to sign up more suckers.

I can't believe how many people here who you would think know better, are constantly talking about RTP's being in the 90's. Snap out of it...

[chuchu59]

OK question for you guys. I deposit $100 and get a $100 bonus. It comes with a 20x (D+B) WR. The final outcome is 95% RTP on reaching WRs. What balance have I got left?

[bryand]

I wonder whether these settings have included the 1.5% for contributions to the RJs.

I have been trying to make a broader point in other RTP threads. The question is: What is included in RTP besides actual slot line wins and random jackpots? Nothing else like comps and freebies? How can a casino return 95% to player and give comps and freebies, pay affiliates, give RTG a cut and pay overhead plus account for losses from fraud and chargebacks? The numbers don't add up to me.

[darkpixie]

I image it simplified thus:

Say you are betting $1 a spin. Every time you hit spin you pay the Casino 5 Cents. And 95 cents of that goes into the kitty to payout to players.

So deposit $100 make 100 spins at $1 each and the casino keeps $5 and theoretically you get $95

So now you have $95 make 95 spins, the casino keeps $4.75 and you are left with $90.25 and so on....

Continue on and you have paid the casino $100 or so whether you manage to cash out or not. This is especially true when you consider bonuses and wagering requirements. Consider that you have deposited $50 and gotten a $50 bonus with 20X play through of $2000. $2000 * 5cents is $100!!! The casino has just paid itself your $50 and you have generated income for them off that bonus removing the 5cents every spin from the overall payout!!!

It gets even juicier if for some reason they get to confiscate your winnings from regular play. No one every mentions where that money goes. (not referring to Random Jackpots here)

Makes me wish I owned a casino

Again this is just a theory I have, but if you think of it, its mathematically sound over the long run. I could put it in far more eloquent terms but its late and I am at work.

[KasinoKing]

OK question for you guys. I deposit $100 and get a $100 bonus. It comes with a 20x (D+B) WR. The final outcome is 95% RTP on reaching WRs. What balance have I got left?

You have exactly $0.
Unless it's a Phantom bonus, in which case you will have -$100...

KK

[chuchu59]

You have exactly $0.
Unless it's a Phantom bonus, in which case you will have -$100...

KK

Exactly KK. I just want to bring out a point that we could be experiencing an average RTP of 95% and not much lower as some people tend to believe. This could already kill you

[4 of a kind]

OK question for you guys. I deposit $100 and get a $100 bonus. It comes with a 20x (D+B) WR. The final outcome is 95% RTP on reaching WRs. What balance have I got left?

Let's say I deposit $2,000.00 dollars with no bonus. I never have a balance more then my deposit and only last 30 minutes playing $5.00 a hand before I go bust. I play a total of 610 hands.

What is my RTP???

[KasinoKing]

Let's say I deposit $2,000.00 dollars with no bonus. I never have a balance more then my deposit and only last 30 minutes playing $5.00 a hand before I go bust. I play a total of 610 hands.

What is my RTP???

34.42%.


(You wager $3050 and lose $2000, or in other words you wager $3050 and your return is $1050. 1050/3050x100 = 34.42%)

KK

[lost2much]

I just experimented with my Inet monthly bonus to see if anything has improved and guess what?? Received an $80 bonus, played at 40 to 60 cents per spin. I got less than ten features and only cleared $464 of the $1200 to win anything. This after being told by Alan (the CSR) that I should try to hit the cash out button more often. HAHAHAHA Alan, that really is funny!! HAHAHA, you know what is even funnier?? That my money won't be going to you guys....Isn't that hilarious?? HAHAHAHAHHAAHA!!! How funny is it now that my $750 in the last two weeks won't be coming in again in the next two weeks. HAHHAHAHA!! Don't worry Alan, I'm laughing at you (oops, I mean with you!!)

[Nifty29]

What is my RTP here:

I deposit $50

I wager about $500

I cashout $1250

= XX%??

(P.S. I hope its clear to everyone from this thread how dramatic the effect of taking a bonus can be on your ability to come out ahead. As KK will tell you, bonuses are only +EV up to a certain point - and even that doesnt gaurantee you will win. The common denominator in many cases of players not being able to cashout in 100 deposits etc is that they take bonuses, and that is a clue to changing your gambling behaviour in terms of making better bonus choices or just not taking them at all)