Playing at one of the rogues...

[Pinababy69]

Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

Okay, let's try this as an analogy then.

Every month, at the end of the month....there's a mugger who waits outside the bank and robs little old ladies of their pension cheques. You know who this guy is, and could report him to the authorities....but he's promised he won't rob you personally if you just "look the other way". So as long as your money (and you) are safe, you would just look the other way, and let this guy continue to take advantage of these other people?

Ya know...I'm gonna leave this, cause I just get so pissed off, I really do. But it's a true commentary on today's society and humankind in general. Always looking out for number one, and as long as something doesn't affect you personally, why let it bother you, or take any action against it? People don't care if other people get ripped off on a regular basis, as long as they get taken care of. I find it all really sad.

Your comment that the only one at risk is you really sums it all up. You and the thousands of others who continue to play at these places are the ones who ALLOW them to stay in business. Imagine if every player just refused to play at any casino who doesn't treat EVERY player fairly. What would happen? They would either go out of business, or they would be forced to re-assess their business model and make some serious changes. If players would only realize that they are not powerless in these matters, but it takes solidarity. I am finally realizing that people (in general) just don't give a shit about other people.

People think that I should chill out....well, my response is that I think others should get more fired up about this stuff. Complacency should be a sin.

[skiny]

Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

[bb28]

Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

This point has been proven many times....they don't really give a rat's ass!

[vegetagirl2008]

Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

I'm not even support these casinos by giving them my money it's the other way round because of my advantage play.

Okay that's all fine and dandy, but what about the next player do you think everyone has such a strategy as yours? No they don't. So this is why this site warns people of such casinos.

Just a quick scenario
Okay put yourself in this scenario say you really won a fantastic hand. You make a withdrawal, then oops they need certain documents from you that you have already provided them. Okay that's done another week goes by. Now they come back, oops they cannot read you documents can you fax them over again. Another week goes by. Then they send a e-mail telling you they received your documents and they are currently awaiting word from the accounting department.

Okay three days go by nothing. You get frustrated and you send an e-mail to them. They don't respond right away then 2 days later they tell you they still waiting to hear from the accounting dept. Now its going on 2 weeks and some days.

Now they come back via e-mail from them stating the matter is now being investigated. Wow you thought they was waiting news from the accounting dept. Now it got escalated to the investigations dept. Why? Because of your play history. Another 2 weeks goes by. Now they closed your account because they felt you did not meet their play requirements. During this time you went through chat, e-mails and phone conversations because this casino refused to pay you.

Now do you see why we have the rogue list. Bryan and the staff went to great lengths to make sure that players can now have the upper hand.

[WonderingSpirit]

Every month, at the end of the month....there's a mugger who waits outside the bank and robs little old ladies

So you call the members of casinomeister for little old ladies now



On a serious side: good point!

[spiderlegz]

I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

I think the Casinomeister Rouge List is a good orientation but it is not perfect. There are IMHO dangerous casinos missing and there are casinos on this list I wouldn't call roguish.

Same thing with the Accredited Casino List, most of these casinos are really good but with a few of them I already had some smaller problems.

I actually have to agree. Not all the casinos in the rogue section are there because of nonpayment. And there are many shady places missing.

While Im not an advantage player myself I understand that you have to go to the "dark" side, otherwise you just give up too much EV.

I would target unethical affiliates before advantage players. They are happy to send uninformed players to the slaughter as long as they get their $. Advantage players knows the risks in opposite to new players. I just dont buy it that you keep a casino alive by taking their money.

Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

They are just the software provider. No other software does it either, why should they?

[skiny]

They are just the software provider. No other software does it either, why should they?

Because if one or two RTG casinos don't pay those casinos get a bad name. If many casinos don't pay RTG gets a bad name.

I've pretty much given up on RTG slots anyway. Pumping money into RTG slots is starting to seem like beating a dead horse.

[winbig]

Because if one or two RTG casinos don't pay those casinos get a bad name. If many casinos don't pay RTG gets a bad name.

I've pretty much given up on RTG slots anyway. Pumping money into RTG slots is starting to seem like beating a dead horse.

RTG's name can't get any worse than it already is. #1 they don't look out for the players at all #2 they allow rogues to continue to operate without yanking their license #3 they allow rogue operators to consistently spam everybody and yet do nothing about trying to stop it...#4, #5, #6, do I really need to continue?

[Pinababy69]

So you call the members of casinomeister for little old ladies now

Hey, whatever works.

I actually have to agree. Not all the casinos in the rogue section are there because of nonpayment. And there are many shady places missing.

While Im not an advantage player myself I understand that you have to go to the "dark" side, otherwise you just give up too much EV.

I would target unethical affiliates before advantage players. They are happy to send uninformed players to the slaughter as long as they get their $. Advantage players knows the risks in opposite to new players. I just dont buy it that you keep a casino alive by taking their money.

I've said it before.....while I certainly don't take Bryan's accredited list as gospel, it's an extremely good starting point, especially for newbies. There are a couple of places on there, while I may not classify them as rogue, I myself would have them on a not recommended list. But that's personal preference. And at least with his casinos, while you may not have a guarantee....he will stand behind what he offers, and go to bat for you...IF you have followed all the T&C's, etc. He still does a better job than most out there when it comes to being a "responsible" webmaster. I've said before to other people that I probably agree with around 90% of what he says/does in relation to this site. I can't say that about alot of other affy sites/gambling sites, and I am extremely picky. Bryan knows I respect him...he also knows we don't agree on everything, and I've really tried to learn to not take things so personally in the last year or two.

Regarding your comment about going after the affies.....oh trust me, I do. I'm not going to search up my own posts, but they are there. And I agree with you, they are the ones I blame for sending the "unsuspecting" player to play at some of the real shitholes ie. Virtual. Their websites permeate the internet like a goddamn virus, that's out of control. I have come close to getting myself suspended/banned here and other places with some of the scathing remarks I've made to affiliates who defend their "right" to promote whomever they like. Bryan tends to give me a bit more leeway here (I think), because he knows me well enough to understand my intentions are in the right place.

These rogue affiliates who promote the worst places out there, IMO, deserve every scathing comment that I, and others, can throw at them. But much like the drug dealer who peddles his wares on the streetcorner, and the user who buys them....both have to take some responsibility for their own actions. The dealer needs to be shut down, and the user needs to stop, period.

I see no reason to give the players who know better a free pass. They are to blame for keeping these places in business as well. I don't mean the newbie who comes here and posts that he got ripped off by Coolcat, POC, etc. Those people I feel somewhat sorry for. Yes, they should have done some research prior to playing...but okay, everyone makes mistakes. I am referring to the players who give these places their business, knowing full well that the money they are being paid with, has probably come out of the pocket of some, poor unsuspecting newbie whom they first strung along for a month or two...and then decided not to pay them. Yes, I have just as much problem with those players as I do with the affiliates who sent the others there in the first place. Fair is fair. No excuse for going to the dark side Spider. You know for the most part, I think that you and I are on the same page in many industry related matters. But on this subject, we'll have to disagree. It happens.

Players do have power to change things...they really do. The Jackpot Factory media campaign from a few years ago, the English Harbour cheating scandal, the MG white label mess......just a few examples of what players can accomplish if they apply enough pressure in large enough numbers. I'm not sure that any of us had any true effect on the white label thing....but we sure made them sit up and take notice of us, and hopefully at least rethink their business model. But I'll say it again....complacency won't get the job done. People need to get fired up about things, and work together. That goes for the player AND the affiliate.

Can I go have my coffee now?

[spiderlegz]

RTG's name can't get any worse than it already is. #1 they don't look out for the players at all #2 they allow rogues to continue to operate without yanking their license #3 they allow rogue operators to consistently spam everybody and yet do nothing about trying to stop it...#4, #5, #6, do I really need to continue?

Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.