How Many Online Casinos Cheat?

[Jufo]

Im with you bro, but isn't it strange that some of us are so sure of this while some other people for some reason 100% belive we just have bad luck all the time? (Except when in a landbased casino, I just never win in BJ online - And no - I don't do more hands online!)

This argument is getting old. In my opinion people want to be disillusioned! People accually enjoy bending over and taking it, for some strange reason I cannot understand.

The smarterst thing one can do is:
a) stop wagering in a MG casino after a good win, you'll never get ahead again
b) quit online gambling all together.

Sure, this only applies for high rolling. Low rolling seems to be working, if you want to waste a year with hours for ending +-$500 which is funny money in the end! (Look at the lost working hours...) Who accually enjoys spinning $0.20 anyway... Yeyy... I won $40, hurray! This is not where you see the "patterns" emerging in the gameplay (where you end up loooosing).

Have a good one I say,

I have had similar experiences and observed some patterns too even though I haven't always lost. However there is a fundamental problem that it is human nature to observe patterns even when they don't really exist. Like a smiley face on the surface of the moon, who put it there!

I have been thinking that the streakiness and bad runs are the "nature of blackjack" and not so much on-line software. Still I constantly run in to results, which, according to calculations, should have 1:500 to 1:2000 chance of happening. A result with 1:2000 chance can happen of course and will eventually happen, but the problem is the frequency these kind of results occur.

So my question is:

If there are patterns and worsened odds with higher bets, can this be proven with enough data? And why has no-one been able to give any proof so far?

I have generated lot of data from my on-line play but one problem is that I can only access last 20 days of play history without asking MG to send my older play data. But if there really are patterns, then surely we could all make a group effort to expose them. If it turns out this "bad luck" is just statistical variance, then we at least know that these claims are without basis. But if it is possible to find something, then maybe it could be a new "English Harbour" case?
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...-cheating.html

I think that over long run the BJ payout % is very close to theoretical. But if there is any artificial streakiness added (including all those winning streaks!), then that is the same thing as cheating, simple as that.

[Jufo]

Recently, I've been looking at some of the developments coming through and one idea (from Cyberview) is time-based gaming where a player pays for a certain amount of time on the machine and so knows how much entertainment they are going to get for their money. Having spoken to the company, I know that the patents for this type of play have been an important factor in why IGT have made a move to buy Cyberview up. Just as important as their server-based gaming patents. I wonder if we will start to see this sort of thing online soon?

I think that the way Casinos generate their profits by offering negative value games is unfair to players because players get punished by the more they play. You can win by playing only 10 hands/spins, but you have extremely small chance of winning by playing 100 000 hands/spins. The house edge is what always brings you down in the end.

That's why I would like to see a different scenario: A Casino offering 0% house edge games and charging an entry fee or monthly membership fee instead. For example you deposit 100$ and 5$ would be charged as "commission" but then you would have 95$ to play all games with no house edge at all! Or perhaps there would be 5% commission only when you win and do a cash out. There is Betfair Zero Lounge already but I would like to see a whole casino where no games have house edge but you pay a small fee to enter. What do you think of this idea?

[winbig]

There is Betfair Zero Lounge already but I would like to see a whole casino where no games have house edge but you pay a small fee to enter. What do you think of this idea?

It'll never fly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only reason Betfair has a Zero Lounge is because they make most of their money from the sportsbook?

[Simmo!]

Recently, I've been looking at some of the developments coming through and one idea (from Cyberview) is time-based gaming where a player pays for a certain amount of time on the machine

Actually you can kinda do a similar thing with Wagerworks. Each member can set their own limits using different criteria (max deposits, losses etc). One of those is to set a max. wagering amount per day or week. So you could set a max of say $1,000 and then spin at $5 so you know that you have 200 spins.

I do this at Virgin and it works - sometimes you are down, sometimes up, but it's harder to chase losses and quite often you see a profit as you are forced to stop. Not quite "time based" but close.

[joeypbg]

from kimss
Im with you bro, but isn't it strange that some of us are so sure of this while some other people for some reason 100% belive we just have bad luck all the time? (Except when in a landbased casino, I just never win in BJ online - And no - I don't do more hands online!)

This argument is getting old. In my opinion people want to be disillusioned! People accually enjoy bending over and taking it, for some strange reason I cannot understand.

From Jufo
So my question is:

If there are patterns and worsened odds with higher bets, can this be proven with enough data? And why has no-one been able to give any proof so far?

I have been playing online baccarat and have been using a system that i designed. I found it quite effective. I do not try to figure out if the machine is fair or not. For example in baccarat i have what i call a 1 win 1 lose run. This is a run wherein i bet on a hand and i win. then the next hand i bet and for sure i will lose. It doesnt matter where i bet i WILL lose. So i lower my bet on that hand to the minimum bet. next hand i will bet big again. then lower my bet to the minimum on the next hand. If however i win with that hand that i bet minimum on, I will bet minimum again because a 100percent you will lose on the next hand. You will encounter this type of run for sure as you play.

If you are asking me whether the casinos cheat or not I think you can figure it out for yourself.

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if it's skewed then you're screwed! unless ....

[winbig]

I assume you retired from Baccarat? Not by winning, but by selling your "system"?

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[joeypbg]

heh heh .not really. just been sharing info with a few guys. i still love playing the game. i don't really know how to market this as well as i should.

[debbiek]

"This is a run wherein i bet on a hand and i win. then the next hand i bet and for sure i will lose. It doesnt matter where i bet i WILL lose"

That's interesting you say that because I have noticed about 99% of the time when playing slots, that if you win something over your original wager, the next spin you will definitely lose. Sometimes it may be a small amount, but it general, you can take it to the bank it WIll lose. I used to lower the wager on the next spin because that was the smart thing to do, but sometimes I let the original bet ride.

I've also noticed that with the slots, if you win let's say $50, it will take it back the next 5-10 spins, very rarely gets on a roll. If the play was truly random, wouldn't this happen some of the time? It's extremely hard to find a "hot slot" online, but i've definitely seen this on land.

[joeypbg]

i have actually seen this pattern on most of the games. If you noticed in my post I never even mention whether to bet on player or banker ( what baccarat choices are supposed to be). Personally i see this as designed to beat those that are for example chasing their loses and have a tendency to double up after winning a hand.


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if it's screwed then you're screwed! unless ....

[debbiek]

I definitely think the Main Street Group of casinos should currently be under investigation for unfair play. I've played at every one of their casinos in the last 2 days and they're payout is way under 70%. I sent a letter to their security telling them to close every one of my accounts.

Not one of the sessions were fair and they don't deserve any future business. That coupled with their slow payouts (one month), makes them a terrible choice for depositing. I just can't believe that this group is accredited and what's worse, people only play there because there's very little choice.