Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[jetset]

Originally Posted by TrixSlice

Jetset, I'm sure everyone appreciates you taking control of this situation for now.

Heh! I'm not sure I'm in control of the situation, Trix but I'm making some noise with Playtech, we've got the dispute channel up again and I've had a rather confusing email from someone at Casinopays/Joyland on which I'm seeking clarification - and I've used the opportunity to give them some practical advice on how to sort this mess out in a fair and responsible way that goes beyond garbled phone calls and unanswered contact numbers.

More when I have it.

[The Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by jetset

Heh! I'm not sure I'm in control of the situation, Trix but I'm making some noise with Playtech, we've got the dispute channel up again and I've had a rather confusing email from someone at Casinopays/Joyland on which I'm seeking clarification - and I've used the opportunity to give them some practical advice on how to sort this mess out in a fair and responsible way that goes beyond garbled phone calls and unanswered contact numbers.

More when I have it.

Well you're certainly the best chance these guys have right now. I think 120Sam made some really astute observations. As more information comes forward about the ownership of this casino I fully expect to find that Joyland is owned and operated by the same group as at least one or two other popular Playtech Casinos (possibly Monaco Gold, Carnival.) If it were as simple for these owners to just close up Joyland Casino and forget all about that I would be slightly concerned that they might exercise this option.

Thank goodness for people let Jetset and Casinomeister. Not but a very few of normal players at a casino would think "Hey Joyland screwed a bunch of people out of money ... better not play at their affiliates" because they would not be aware of such connection, nor would they perhaps be aware of the Joyland situation a month or two from now. With this kind of lack of accountability of the true owners, casinos could pop up all over the place under the same ownership/management and not have to worry about scamming people, as when they did they could just shut down that particular casino and start anew a few months later with another one, still reaping in the profit from however many other casinos they have open.

It's because of watchdog sites like these, and it's users who are willing to spread the word as far as it could possibly reach that when all the facts do come forward about this that the agents(s) who are attempting to defraud players and possibly any other agent that knowingly facilitated that action will be held accountable across the entire spectrum of it's holdings. To let it be known that the owner/manager/group who was part of this must comply to the pervasive will of the players, or suffer in illegitimacy in all of their dealings in the online gaming world, not just those where the transgression took place.

It's this kind of pressure that this website helps convey. This is the kind of pressure that will lead the online gaming world towards the goals that most of us hold for it. Cleaning it up, removing it from a dark corner of American online activities and bringing it to the point of regulation and full legitimacy that I assume nearly everyone here hopes for.

I want to thank you and others like you for your effort, as a situation like this one that represents a turning point in player's faith in casinos, I applaud your effort.

The Gunslinger

[scrollock]

I've only ever played at a few playtechs for the simple reason that i find the cards shocking and the customer support using every single trick in the book to delay cash out in the hope that you forget and give up. this has happened at EVERY single playtech, including some which belong to the same group as joyland.

Even my worse experience at an MG compares very favourably to best i have ever had at a playtech. The tactics these casinos that use playtech when it comes to cash outs are inherently dishonest.

I dont mean to go off-topic here, but this is something that has bugged me for a while, but why is it all the honourable casinos choose MG, yet all the casinos that employ these underhand tactics choose playtech/RTG, is it because the software that is crooked aswell as the casinos, hence the attraction.

for it does seem that playtech does attract the dishonest casinos like flies round sh!t, so even though i have never played at joyland i can well believe all the things that have been posted in this thread.

Although this problem concerns joyland, i think all players should give all the playtechs casinos a wide berth till this is resolved, especially the ones in this group, because until people stop playing there, they will continue to pull this crap time and time again.

[Pinababy69]

Although this problem concerns joyland, i think all players should give all the playtechs casinos a wide berth till this is resolved, especially the ones in this group, because until people stop playing there, they will continue to pull this crap time and time again.

After reading through this whole thread, those are my thoughts exactly. I stick mostly to Microgaming, but occasionally a dose of Playtech was enjoyable. I will NEVER deposit into another Playtech until Playtech themselves give some sort of satisfactory reply as to how a casino, any casino, can just go in and "modify" a player's logs. The comp points thing on it's own is terrible, being locked out is terrible, having your withdrawal voided is terrible, but to have your whole history wiped out as if it never happened? That is so far beyond unacceptable, and I cannot believe that Playtech is not addressing at least that issue immediately. I am done with Playtech, period.

[kavaman]

So far the playtech dispute channel really uninmpresses me i mean it seems worse then RTG and thats BAD. Putting players back to contacting the casino. How is that for handling a dispute. I just dont get it. They should mediate and check that if the player played according to the casino rules, and make a decision. Not just to step aside and put the player back to contacting the casino.

Also i just dont understand this phone use. It would be far better to solve the problems by e-mail so there would be some proof of what exactly is going on. Also many people including myself play at online casinos for the reason they do not wish to have direct contact with any casinos or answer phone calls.

-kavaman

[scrollock]

Originally Posted by kavaman

So far the playtech dispute channel really uninmpresses me i mean it seems worse then RTG and thats BAD. Putting players back to contacting the casino. How is that for handling a dispute. I just dont get it. They should mediate and check that if the player played according to the casino rules, and make a decision. Not just to step aside and put the player back to contacting the casino.

Also i just dont understand this phone use. It would be far better to solve the problems by e-mail so there would be some proof of what exactly is going on. Also many people including myself play at online casinos for the reason they do not wish to have direct contact with any casinos or answer phone calls.

-kavaman

this phone tactic seems to be standard with playtech, for instance i once played at monaco gold i cashed out,my winnings never turned up, i phoned up the casino and was told i was asked for id and had never sent it (you know the old "we emailed you" trick which EVERY SINGLE PLAYTECH employs). i asked the CS girl if she could send the email again, she said she couldnt as it is "policy" that emails asking for ID arn't sent out, but i pointed out that you claim to have sent it once yet you say it is against policy to send such an email, which is it?

cut a long story short, i tied the girl up in knots and she admitted to me to that it is policy that communication regarding payouts are never conducted by email so there wouldnt be a record of it.

the other playtechs i have played are the golden palace group who were very kind enough to phone me up as soon as i opened my account and guide me through depositing my cash. however when it came to cashing out i was met with email silence, after a few weeks i was told by phone i had to send in ID ( they claimed to have asked for it in an email aswell). i sent it in, a week went by, complete email silence again, i phoned again i was given an excuse about my documents being unreadable. i asked "why couldn't you reply to my emails explaining this". over the next few weeks i had the same, my emails were all ignored, followed by phonecalls where i was given the same excuse about my ID.

in the end i told them that i knew they were jerking me around, and would they be so kind as to communicate by email that they are having a problem reading my ID and i would then refer the matter to a third party who could then verify my ID, this i was told was impossible as it is against policy to communicate by email regarding cashout problems.

so it is the simple fact that all playtechs employ this policy because it prevents you having some kind of evidence to take to a disputes board.

from what i have read about the playtech dispute response to this situation makes it sound like this is an agreement between playtech and its casinos to hinder all disputes.

facts is playtech casinos are dishonest, playtech software is dishonest and the whole playtech organisation is corrupt through and through

[jetset]

I agree with Gunslinger that 120Sam's thoughts are worth reading on this issue, as are the contributions of many others here such as Kavaman and Scrollock.

There's an earlier post here somewhere that linked Joyland with Monaco Gold and Club Dice, and interestingly those operations were recently purchased for $40 million by Noam Lanir's Empire Online, shortly after its successful IPO.

I suppose it is possible that this change is having these crazy repercussions we're experiencing, but as this deal was only announced early this month/late July I doubt that operational matters such as this would have been influenced already.

Concerning the Playtech channel, you will recall that when Montana was set up it was initially excruciatingly slow and bad at communicating, but I think its fair to say it has improved - it's not up to gold standard but there has been some improvement.

Handling player disputes is not as easy as it might appear, and if Playtech are sincere about this, their channel will receive more attention and exhibit better standards of customer sensitivity and real mediation, rather than playing tennis with emails to its casinos and the players.

BTW, this predilection for telephone calls permeates much of the industry - there are plenty folks in online casino land who try the smooth patter on the phone rather than the hard and recorded fact of email exchanges!

[liatk]

To all Joyland Casino players ,

In response to the CasinoMeister forum posts, we trust the following explanation will clear up everybody's questions and confusion.

The main issue revolves around the fact that there was a mismatch in the way comp points were calculated.
We reviewed the players who played at Joyland Casino and the Casino management decided to cut the winnings of players who were seen to be abusers of the system. These "abusers" were the people who saw the failure in the system and played non-risky games in order to accumulate as many comp points as possible. Joyland's fraud department then refunded the initial deposits of all those players and decided to call each one of them personally.

All players that play at Joyland Casino have to agree with the terms and conditions prior to playing where it states that the Casino Management is able to make decisions such as this. If you wish to re-read these terms and conditions please see http://www.joylandcasino.com/en/terms.html.

If, by mistake, some players still have not been contacted via phone, be sure that you will be contacted - we will NOT forget you!
All players we have managed to reach over the phone were pleased, satisfied and full of understanding.

We have recently heard from some players that they had the feeling that Joyland Casino Support ignored them. Joyland Casino Support sincerely apologizes for that and are making it their priority to repair this and they ensure that everyone will get the quality support they so deserve.
There was no intention from the Joyland Casino to offend anyone, they simply intended to protect themselves against casino abusers.

Those of you who have not been contacted by Joyland support, or those who have further queries, please could you call the Joyland support again.
Toll Free US/Canada: 1-866-516-0607 and International: 1-268-481-2265
We would like you personally invite you to come back and play at Joyland casino despite the past matters.

We wish you the best of luck,
Thanking you,
Joyland Casino Customer Care

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by liatk

All players we have managed to reach over the phone were pleased, satisfied and full of understanding.

I'll leave those involved to give the whole post the response it deserves, but the above was so absurd it made me laugh!

[jetset]

I have been in contact with Joyland, explaining to them that this *solution* does not cut it.

If players wagered in terms of their T&Cs when they had screwed up their comp calculations, then that is a casino fault and players should not be penalised by having their winnings confiscated, even if their deposits are being returned.

And invoking the notorious "we can do whatever we want" clause is a BIG mistake.