Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

Yes, just as a casino which offered the "wrong" odds on one of its games would also have to pay out. I don't see why the level of their incompetence or the amount of their losses makes any difference, unless they're poorly enough funded not to be able to pay (I doubt you'll find anyone's taken them for anything like $1 million).

Well I'll just state that most of the civilized world disagrees with you. Sportsbooks offer incorrect odds on a relatively frequent basis, and without fail all wagers on these games are null and void and bets are returned without winnings. Same for mispricing on physical items, as another poster stated. Obviously this is different because they didn't refund anyone's money who lost, I haven't really thought through how that should play into it.

As far as people claiming they didn't realize this was a mistake, this is a possibility for the casual gamer who didn't wager that much and wasn't getting say $1000 in comp points. But for these savvy players who earned $1000s in comps, I have to say they are being disingenuous.

EDIT: But let me just reiterate that joyland has handled this terribly and should pay players all of their legitimate winnings. Their actions are even more unacceptable that those few players who blatantly took advantage of their mistake.

[largeeyes]

Originally Posted by ScurvyDog

Be interesting to see how this plays out.

Given that online casinos' sole purpose is to prey on the weak and addicted, I hope that Joyland does the right thing, admits all of the issues were of their own doing, and pays out players what is owed to them, in full.

That said, I wouldn't hold my breath. Plenty of online merchants have mistakenly posted products on their websites that are listed at a fraction of what they would normally be, obviously listed in error. Those "deals" get posted and distributed widely, everyone and their monkey buys 30 of them, and the merchant ultimately says "Look, no deal, that was an obvious error and we're simply not going to honor it." and returns everyone money and possibly throws a $5 gift certificate their way.

It's more complicated than that, though, as I'm sure the size of the withdrawals in question are also directly related to the problems with the comp system, as savvy players could essentially freeroll with the comp money and be much more aggressive than normal with their targets.

If I deposited $1,000 into a Scottrade account, a computer glitch turned it $1,000,000, and I immediately invested it in some volatile stock (knowing I'd never be on the hook for the non-existent $1,000,000 no matter what happened), and flipped it an hour later for a $50,000 profit, I wouldn't expect to be allowed to keep the profit when Scottrade eventually discovered the error. It wouldn't mean that I wouldn't try to flip it, or squawk when they took it away, but it's hard to argue that I'm somehow rightfully owed that $50,000 in "profits".

Like I said, though, hope everyone gets paid. Good luck.

The problem with your pricing error analogy is the matter of risk. If Amazon offers a new video game for 4.99 instead of 49.99 and you buy 20, you risk nothing with an enormous possible reward. In this matter, everyone risked at least $500.

[ScurvyDog]

Originally Posted by largeeyes

The problem with your pricing error analogy is the matter of risk. If Amazon offers a new video game for 4.99 instead of 49.99 and you buy 20, you risk nothing with an enormous possible reward. In this matter, everyone risked at least $500.

Well, yes and no, depending on your level of savvy. If you were aware of the comp point glitch and had a large enough bankroll, your effective risk would be pretty close to zero. Your only practical risk would be that if the casino caught on they could possibly freeze your account, etc.

Again, I hope everyone gets paid.

[casinomike]

Hello.. I did win at Joyland, I signed up under the High Roller bonus as I like to bet big at playtech casinos. I was converting comp points to casino chips as I played, so I could give my chip stack a boost once in a while, I like to do this and used to like this comp perk about playtech caisnos

I don't know what this I'm reading about a computer glitch? I was playing with their non-cashable play bonus chips with allowed games as a high roller, I believe their terms said the comp conversion rate is adjusted depending on your player status. Well naturally a high roller enjoys a better converstion rate

it is not right that they can just confiscate my money because they decided after a week that they "had a glitch". Yet they kept everyones money who lost at their casino?

I think this is despicable and I hesitate to ever play at a Playtech casino again now because of this

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

Well I'll just state that most of the civilized world disagrees with you. Sportsbooks offer incorrect odds on a relatively frequent basis, and without fail all wagers on these games are null and void and bets are returned without winnings. Same for mispricing on physical items, as another poster stated. Obviously this is different because they didn't refund anyone's money who lost, I haven't really thought through how that should play into it.

Well, living in the more or less civilised UK I'm not sure I'm in a minority. The overuse of "palpable error" by sportsbooks when something goes against them is treated with disgust by most gamblers. At least in the case of sportsbooks they do have a clause about "palpable error" in their terms. I'm not sure what the casino's relying on to renege on all these cash-ins - there's probably some "we can do whatever we like" term, but I doubt it holds much legal (or moral) weight.

In the UK you get various results when items are mispriced - often the companies have no choice but to supply them at the price quoted, and big companies often choose to anyway to avoid bad publicity (a similar case was an ATM for a UK bank giving out £20 notes instead of £10 notes - the bank didn't try to claim the money back).

I see your point, but I don't think it's nearly as clear cut as you make out. When it comes to the criticism of people taking advantage of the casino's mistake I completely disagree. This isn't a gentlemen's industry - the casinos are out to use whatever tricks they can to get an advantage over players. If they make mistakes or offer bonuses that are too generous they can incur serious losses. It's a high-risk industry, but obviously they think the rewards justify the risk.

[Rah]

While I can certainly understand the argument the casino makes, it does not entitle them to change logs and void winnings. Recalculating given comps and then paying out comps + winnings would be the least to expect. Voiding all winnings, even without comps, is outrageous if true.

[dubs22]

I also signed up for Joyland Casino on 8/5. I signed up for the High Roller bonus of deposit 500 and get 808 (non-cashable chips). The currency I played in was GBP.

I played jacks or better 4 play @ 20-40 GBP/pull for about 3 hours, and hit my first straight flush ever (a pat one, got the screen shot!). Needless to say I was pumped, and at the end of the day, I was somewhere around 4000 GBP and I cashed that minus the non-cashable chips I had, although after what I thought was the "high roller" comp rate I had signed up for had been converted, I was probably down some. It's hard to tell with my transaction history gone... I have the numbers in my notebook at work, I am sure.

At this point you know the rest of the story - transaction history altered, 500 initial deposit refunded, and CS not much help, save one phone call to my cell.

The girl that called me was very apologetic - she explained that what happened wasn't my fault, but that a "gang" of people placed tons of low risk bets and abused their comp system. I assumed she had looked at my play record because she wasn't blaming me or anything and I don't think 40 GBP VP pulls is "low-risk", although I'm sure we don't see eye to eye. I didn't really know how to approach the conversation with her. Obviously I would like to get paid but I am sure she cannot make that happen. I told her I was disappointed about the whole ordeal but realized she could not do anything, so I thanked her and hung up, and contemplated a next move.

A visit to playtech's site revealed an inquiry form, but as this thread has beat to death, it was down, so in the absence of seeking aid from the software manufacturer I decided to post here. I will wait until the CM returns from break in order to PAB, but here's to hoping that some of you will see this money, certainly those of you with substantial winnings over this comp fiasco. I now know what it feels like to see the balance light up, even if I won't see the money...

[TheBloke]

I've been following this thread with interest.

I played at JoyLand on the 5th. I deposited £500 for the £808 bonus, and busted. I then deposited more of my own money and eventually bust that too. I kept playing, despite being up nearly £5k at one point, because of the beneficial Comp Point rate which I assumed was a High Roller benefit that I would enjoy from then on.

So I'm down over £1000 - given that all winnings are void because of this 'mistake', surely all losses should be too? Will JoyLand refund this money, or is this a no-loss situation for the casino; take the losers, don't pay winners.

I assume it's the latter - just another case of a casino using any opportunity to steal.

In fact, how do we know that this wasn't actually a deliberate ploy - offer good comps so people keep gambling, then don't pay anyone who wins? Maybe this was a deliberate co-ordinated attempt by the casino to defraud its users. I would never have thought that any casino (besides the outright rogues) would ever stoop so low - but in absence of any positive news to the contrary, it now seems a possibility.

[Daffy]

I just visited Joylands website...

I trust everyone that has posted knows the bonus chips(808) are NONCASHABLE.

I saw no WR on the regular/inflated Loyalty/Comp chips...is this normal???

I don't play much Playtech but I believe RTG and MG casinos have WR on their Loyalty/Comp chips.

Thanks,

the dUck

[casinomike]

Originally Posted by Daffy

I just visited Joylands website...

I trust everyone that has posted knows the bonus chips(808) are NONCASHABLE.

I saw no WR on the regular/inflated Loyalty/Comp chips...is this normal???

I don't play much Playtech but I believe RTG and MG casinos have WR on their Loyalty/Comp chips.

Thanks,

the dUck

Believe me,I am aware the bonus is non cashable, in fact was automatically removed from my account when my first cashout. I made cashouts in exceess of ten thousand, the 800 bonus is insignificant in this case.

Also, I have played at several Playtech casinos and never have comp points had any kind of wagering requirement placed on them. Nor is this in Joyland's terms

I believe they offered their new "High Roller" players a generous comp conversion ratio, then decided they had been too generous.

I noticed during my play, that they had changed the conversion ratio for comp points from 100 = $1 to 150 = $1. Why would they change it so marginally if this was a glitch? sounds like they were adjusting things on the fly the whole time, maybe their plan was to freeze winnings all along and keep losing deposits, maybe to boost their cash flow as a new casino ?