Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[Casinomeister]

Well that seems sensible enough.

I guess you have his IP address (es?), and as a courtesy to the rest of us who follow the rules and post our locations and info, it would be only fair if you let us know where it reverses to/who owns it, whether it is an ISP or whatever.

Believe me, if and when I spot posting fraud - the poster get's busted out in a most public way since I do not tolerate this in the least bit. The user in question's IP matches about 200 other AOL addresses - so that's not much help. I have other ways of identfying shills and what-nots, but I won't divulge my secrets here

Is he a suspected shill? Sure - can't say he isn't, but that is about as far as it goes for now. The casino has made a statement to me that they have nothing to do with him.

[ElDuderino]

Dear Bryan,

Why is it that Joyland is willing and able to respond to semi-mundane questions (those regarding purported shills, settlement offers, etc.) but is refusing to answer a large number of concerned players' e-mails (so far)? It feels like a big slap in the face... like, "We f'd up big time, but we insist on f'ing our players over and doing everything on our terms."

Meh, I'm really quite disenfranchised by this whole experience. I am holding out hope that you're as appalled as the rest of us, and are merely exercising discretion (i.e., giving Joyland the opportunity to see the error of their ways) before you pursue further action. I have sincere faith that Joyland will, voluntarily or involuntarily, make things right. Having the great CM on our side (assuming of course you think the players are in the right) couldn't hurt!

[Casinomeister]

Dear Bryan,

Why is it that Joyland is willing and able to respond to semi-mundane questions (those regarding purported shills, settlement offers, etc.) but is refusing to answer a large number of concerned players' e-mails (so far)? It feels like a big slap in the face... like, "We f'd up big time, but we insist on f'ing our players over and doing everything on our terms."

Meh, I'm really quite disenfranchised by this whole experience. I am holding out hope that you're as appalled as the rest of us, and are merely exercising discretion (i.e., giving Joyland the opportunity to see the error of their ways) before you pursue further action. I have sincere faith that Joyland will, voluntarily or involuntarily, make things right. Having the great CM on our side (assuming of course you think the players are in the right) couldn't hurt!

I've pretty much stated how I feel about the general situation in Thursday's newsletter. I will be much more candid in the next.

In the meantime, I'm still hoping that the casino does the right thing.

[Jay]

For the record, Joyland has never responded to my requests for an explanation, not even with "we're not paying you because you're a rotten scumbag advantage player". My complaint to Playtech is now two weeks old and I never got anything past "we have received your complaint and will respond within 72 hours". And I did PAB a week or so ago.

Nothing. No offers (though I think I lost enough that I'm not in the "winnings-comps > 0) category, so that's not shocking), no explanations, nothing.

And now that it's perfectly clear that they're really the same group as Club Dice... Well, I would hope that one provably dishonest casino would be enough to rogue the whole lot of them.

[thelawnet]

For the record, Joyland has never responded to my requests for an explanation, not even with "we're not paying you because you're a rotten scumbag advantage player". My complaint to Playtech is now two weeks old and I never got anything past "we have received your complaint and will respond within 72 hours". And I did PAB a week or so ago.

Nothing. No offers (though I think I lost enough that I'm not in the "winnings-comps > 0) category, so that's not shocking), no explanations, nothing.

And now that it's perfectly clear that they're really the same group as Club Dice... Well, I would hope that one provably dishonest casino would be enough to rogue the whole lot of them.

Well considering that Club Dice was set up by Playtech, and was their first casino, it's hardly surprising that their 'complaints service' is not all it could be when it comes to the left hand regulating what the right hand is doing.

This thread is almost 5 years old, but it's the same kind of story

http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=2720

Some comments were particularly amusing

jetset:

If Club Dice has Antigua licencing then that is a hopeful shot. They have recently been revamping their legislation and have been boasting that they will now be policing their licencees more closely.

This could be a good test of their boasts.

Now four years later, with regards to my cynicism regarding Antigua:

jetset
Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,217


My response to thelawnet's pessimism is "nothing ventured, nothing gained" Look for pressure points here. MacDonald is a new-ish broom that may be trying to sweep a little better than the previous administration.

Ha ha. Nothing has changed. You can listen to them telling you what they say, but nothing will ever change.

Nobody sets up business in Antigua because they are looking for strong regulation and player protection.

They do it because it's a little rock in the middle of the ocean where you can do what you like away from prying eyes, who might ask such questions as just exactly what the relationship is between the two or three dozen casinos located on the island, and whether despite their differing names 'imperial e-club', 'crown solutions', 'christchurch gaming' etc., they are actually all the same.

See also http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=5900 or http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=5725

[Jay]

Rogue 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

[TeddyFSB]

Rogue 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

But seriously, personally I haven't played at any Playtech since the beginning of this debacle, and I don't plan to. There are at least 20 reputable Microgaming casinos that I'd be happy to play at instead. Actually, I wouldn't understand why anyone would play at Playtech after following this thread. What do they offer that Microgaming doesn't besides crooked operators?

I've seen a mention somewhere in the thread of a letter that Joyland wants people to sign before they give you your reduced winnings. Is anyone willing to post the text of this letter, if you have it? I'd like a good laugh.

[jetset]

You certainly have a certain abrasive style to your posts, thelawnet and it would be interesting to know who you are and the nature of your industry involvement. Perhaps we will have an opportunity to meet and exchange views one day - maybe at ICE in London as you seem to post from the UK?

Yes, I certainly took the previous director of online gaming in Antigua at his word when I met him and listened to what he had to say about tightening up the Antiguan regulations at various international industry conferences.

And I was disappointed when he did not deliver on his plans. But that does not imo presuppose that Antigua is corrupt or that his successor, Kaye MacDonald will also fail in making Antigua a more credible jurisdiction when it comes to handling player complaints. Until proven otherwise (and she has yet to be tested) I'm prepared to take a hopeful view because that gives players one more channel through which to address legitimate disputes rather than simply dismissing it out of hand.

The same applies to your questioning of this site when certain *rogue rulings* are not implemented when you think they should be. Personally, I prefer a measured approach that ensures open channels of communication before this sanction is imposed. Not always easy to argue when players are justifiably angry, but one I support as a more practical method through which Casinomeister gets results...and his success rate in these matters speaks for itself.

[ElDuderino]

This is *such* crap. Joyland's correspondence to me (and others, I presume) has gone out of it's way to make it clear that people who play video poker aren't bonus abusers... yet they bonus banned me at their sister casino, where I wagered TWENTY TIMES the wagering requirement for the only bonus I have ever received there. If that's bonus abuse, I want to see what the real abusers do... certainly not wager 20x the WR on large video poker spins.

I REALLY hope a resolution is forthcoming, or I'm going to spend moore time than I should tarnishing this group's reputation.

[thelawnet]

Yes, I certainly took the previous director of online gaming in Antigua at his word when I met him and listened to what he had to say about tightening up the Antiguan regulations at various international industry conferences.

And I was disappointed when he did not deliver on his plans. But that does not imo presuppose that Antigua is corrupt or that his successor, Kaye MacDonald will also fail in making Antigua a more credible jurisdiction when it comes to handling player complaints. Until proven otherwise (and she has yet to be tested) I'm prepared to take a hopeful view because that gives players one more channel through which to address legitimate disputes rather than simply dismissing it out of hand.

I can only speak based on experience: their site's complaint form went to a non-existent email address, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the effectiveness of their complaints procedure. Further, when I forwarded an email to Ms. Macdonald herself I did not receive any reply, nor to a previous email. And Antigua itself is hardly renowned for its probity:

their government was considered the most corrupt in the Caribbean, possibly the world. From serving as a tax haven, to drug smuggling, to embezzling, to arms smuggling, to vote fraud, to media control, to land-grabbing and even to domestic terrorism when they fell out of power from 1971-76, the Birds and their cronies did it all.

http://www.timothygoddard.com/blog/index.php?p=724

That said, they have a new government, and it's possible things are improving.